Wizzair
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yes you are right. For experienced FOs on A320 there is no transition to Ryanair FO.
but for the rest they can easily get Captains on A320 from Wizz and offer a Captain position on the 737NG/MAX
same for cadets. Pay scheme in Ryan for cadets are really progressive and good
the thing is that there will be a “war” between them and the easiest way to damage the other company is “steal” pilots. And 90% of the bases offered by Ryanair are much more attractives, on top of that much better salaries, union recognition and rights etc etc
but for the rest they can easily get Captains on A320 from Wizz and offer a Captain position on the 737NG/MAX
same for cadets. Pay scheme in Ryan for cadets are really progressive and good
the thing is that there will be a “war” between them and the easiest way to damage the other company is “steal” pilots. And 90% of the bases offered by Ryanair are much more attractives, on top of that much better salaries, union recognition and rights etc etc
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Pearlharbour
Makes sense. Of course, such a "war" would be more efficient in times with lower application volumes, but if you set yourself the goal of attracting the best pilots from somewhere, that's easily achievable by offering better pay and better bases. Most people don't give two pence about what type they will be flying, as long as it gives them good pay and good quality of life. If a fair bonding arrangement is in place for the type rating, switching types in itself is no trouble, especially when you're going somewhere where there are lots of very good and experienced instructors to teach you properly. So, if the yellow-and-blue brigade decides to cause a mass exodus of pilots from the pink one, there comes an option.
Makes sense. Of course, such a "war" would be more efficient in times with lower application volumes, but if you set yourself the goal of attracting the best pilots from somewhere, that's easily achievable by offering better pay and better bases. Most people don't give two pence about what type they will be flying, as long as it gives them good pay and good quality of life. If a fair bonding arrangement is in place for the type rating, switching types in itself is no trouble, especially when you're going somewhere where there are lots of very good and experienced instructors to teach you properly. So, if the yellow-and-blue brigade decides to cause a mass exodus of pilots from the pink one, there comes an option.
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Life is a weird thing and your best friend today may become your worst enemy tomorrow. Especially wherever a lot of money is involved.
Back on the topic of Wizz air, how's hiring going? Did any sizable fraction of those made redundant in April get their jobs back? Or just a small number? From my closest base rumours are that maybe a third of our unfortunate colleagues are back on the line - but not even one of them in their pre-COVID base. Looks like the algorithm was to fire people from some bases, then move people from bases with capacity reductions but little to no retrenchment (like Kutaisi or Skopje) into the place of those fired, then offer the ones who were fired and re-hired places in other bases. Which is the exact opposite of win-win for everyone involved - as a result of this, 30-50% of the pilots have been displaced in one way or another, and more often than not into bases which were nowhere near their first choice.
Back on the topic of Wizz air, how's hiring going? Did any sizable fraction of those made redundant in April get their jobs back? Or just a small number? From my closest base rumours are that maybe a third of our unfortunate colleagues are back on the line - but not even one of them in their pre-COVID base. Looks like the algorithm was to fire people from some bases, then move people from bases with capacity reductions but little to no retrenchment (like Kutaisi or Skopje) into the place of those fired, then offer the ones who were fired and re-hired places in other bases. Which is the exact opposite of win-win for everyone involved - as a result of this, 30-50% of the pilots have been displaced in one way or another, and more often than not into bases which were nowhere near their first choice.
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The algorithm was a free hand to mid-managers, base captains and base managers (for cabin crew) to get rid of people who are not quiet to their liking, so to say. Simple as that. Only numbers came down from the very top. Those numbers became id-numbers and names by the mentioned above. Also it had nothing to do with shuffling planes around and opening new bases as these were done mostly last minute due covid19. Very little if none was known back in April when they fired 265 pilots. On the other hand quiet a few were called back for ongoing assessments. Hopefully they'll all get their jobs back before considering any external applicants.
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Precisely what I mentioned a few pages ago. You aren't really comparing apples to apples by comparing Wizz air and BA/AF/KLM/EZY/LS. The scene in most countries where Wizz air have their bases mostly comprises weak and unattractive to work for legacy carriers and lots of ACMI companies featuring no fixed base or roster, unimpressive pay, ancient aircraft (where else would you see a living MD82 or a non-EFIS B737-300 these days?) and zero job stability as the majority of those places are heavily reliant upon someone else needing cheap extra capacity for a while. So, for most locals, Wizz air and Buzz are a totally different dimension, as compared to anything else available locally. For sure, it becomes another matter if you're willing to commute X weeks ON and Y weeks OFF to Asia - but not everyone is up for that for many reasons.
As for contracts, did you mention Confair? Is this scheme back after the April redundancies then?
As for contracts, did you mention Confair? Is this scheme back after the April redundancies then?
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TorqueStripe
ok so let’s speak clear to the people that is reading this topic. This is the last “new pay scheme” for new joiners or rehired people with a bond:
for example a Captain will make
30.000 base salary
0,062 per km
30 Eutos per landing
minus taxes (around 40%) and training bond (500 Euros)
so imagine you fly 90 hours.
30.000/12 = 2500. €
kms =. 2315. €
landings. 870. €
TOTAL 5685 € gross
bond - 500 €
——————————
5185 €
taxes. 1600 €
—————————-
TOTAL net. 3585 €
now you can do the math for new joined or rehires from 1 August 2020.
correct me if I’m wrong. People that still in the company maybe they have bonuses but for new people...
ok so let’s speak clear to the people that is reading this topic. This is the last “new pay scheme” for new joiners or rehired people with a bond:
for example a Captain will make
30.000 base salary
0,062 per km
30 Eutos per landing
minus taxes (around 40%) and training bond (500 Euros)
so imagine you fly 90 hours.
30.000/12 = 2500. €
kms =. 2315. €
landings. 870. €
TOTAL 5685 € gross
bond - 500 €
——————————
5185 €
taxes. 1600 €
—————————-
TOTAL net. 3585 €
now you can do the math for new joined or rehires from 1 August 2020.
correct me if I’m wrong. People that still in the company maybe they have bonuses but for new people...
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It isn’t at all. Some people will pay 35 maybe other 43% depending of their residence country and familiar status. But just think that in some countries like Germany you can pay till 50% making 7k gross, Spain 40% and so...
so even with the countries multipliers hardly would reach 4K net
so even with the countries multipliers hardly would reach 4K net
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believe me you are not gonna pay 17% taxes about 6 or 7k gross. Because even if you live in Eastern Europe but the core of your family is in Western Europe you have to pay taxes accordingly the core of where your family lives.
for paying 17% you should make less than 3k gross roughly
for paying 17% you should make less than 3k gross roughly
Only half a speed-brake
Perhaps the numbers are being confused between the personal income tax rate (so where inbetween 15-22 % across the EU) and the combined deduction the government takes off the earnings (38-55%).
For a full employment contract, my research the actual values vary very little one country against another. The difference comes from the tax bracket dependent on the income size, family configuration and other deductibles. I. e. A single captain with no kids nor mortgage earning 11k E would see 45 % not reach his account no matter the passport flag. On a theoretical full contract with no ehm optimization.
For a full employment contract, my research the actual values vary very little one country against another. The difference comes from the tax bracket dependent on the income size, family configuration and other deductibles. I. e. A single captain with no kids nor mortgage earning 11k E would see 45 % not reach his account no matter the passport flag. On a theoretical full contract with no ehm optimization.
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Pearlharbour
I am absolutely not defending the new payscale, but if you wanted to be fully honest, you would have included the country multiplier, so in your example you would end up with 5000 euros (which I agree is still way too low)
I am absolutely not defending the new payscale, but if you wanted to be fully honest, you would have included the country multiplier, so in your example you would end up with 5000 euros (which I agree is still way too low)
Last edited by Newcomer2; 20th Aug 2020 at 14:50.
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ok. let’s make it more simple. Before the company fired 266 pilots in April a New Captain in Bucharest was making after taxes 5.500 Euros.
after the redundancies the company applied a salary reduction of 17%. So 4600 Euros for the people that still employed on local contract in Romania.
that is the best scenario... now new joiners or rehired people will have 33.000 instead of 33.750 basic and 1.33 instead of 1.45 country multipliers. So, again in the best scenario in that country they will make around 4K.
anyway is just a matter of time that this new pilots can share some light regarding the real figures after they recieve the first salary.
after the redundancies the company applied a salary reduction of 17%. So 4600 Euros for the people that still employed on local contract in Romania.
that is the best scenario... now new joiners or rehired people will have 33.000 instead of 33.750 basic and 1.33 instead of 1.45 country multipliers. So, again in the best scenario in that country they will make around 4K.
anyway is just a matter of time that this new pilots can share some light regarding the real figures after they recieve the first salary.
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I say again and I do confirm. 5500 pre COVID
Substract 17% and apply the new entry conditions.
Just do the maths, you have the table. Hardly new hires Captains will make 4K.
Is what it is... You will see...
AND I don’t know the training pay but you can guess!
anyway is good to see a expansion of a company in this turbulent environment. Expansion yes but how they pretend to expand is another history... so I think people deserve to know the true. Only that
Substract 17% and apply the new entry conditions.
Just do the maths, you have the table. Hardly new hires Captains will make 4K.
Is what it is... You will see...
AND I don’t know the training pay but you can guess!
anyway is good to see a expansion of a company in this turbulent environment. Expansion yes but how they pretend to expand is another history... so I think people deserve to know the true. Only that
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how not? Rehired people will have to continue paying their bonds from the point they left before being fired on April.
so if they are rehired they will continue paying their bonds.
before that they had to pay 2 Covid tests, flight tickets, hotels etc etc etc... in order to attend the assessment
so if they are rehired they will continue paying their bonds.
before that they had to pay 2 Covid tests, flight tickets, hotels etc etc etc... in order to attend the assessment