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Wizzair

Old 8th May 2021, 16:31
  #1761 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 51
Enigma01

Stick it out, get the airbus time and run to better Europe.
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Old 8th May 2021, 16:56
  #1762 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Age: 43
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Last time I checked, RYR HQ was pretty much as west of the EU as it gets. No hurt feelings but if you want to protect your jobs, bogus self-emplyment needs to be stopped. Right there, on your own frontyard, with the largest pax carrier the region has.

Until that day comes, all the western shareholders and Commonwealth crooked agencies will put resources where the cost advantage is. To the benefit of the customers and themselves alike, which becomes impossible to oppose.

Last edited by FlightDetent; 9th May 2021 at 01:58.
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Old 8th May 2021, 18:24
  #1763 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 626
Modular Halil

Spot on. For most, LCCs are a stepping stone to better jobs. Hence, they're ready to do whatever it takes for a couple of years to get those A320 or B737 hours, possibly get some LHS experience, maybe even some instructor experience. Those are the people whose long-term goals ensure a high staff turnover at any LCC (at least in normal times when there are multiple job opportunities). And then, there are the others who are not planning to move on because they value being based in their home cities more than the prospects of higher pay and better treatment abroad. No judgement passed here, everyone's priorities are different. I think that this is enough of an answer to the question of why people work for the big three regardless their downsides.
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Old 8th May 2021, 20:52
  #1764 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
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All sounds very positive. Love the stepping stone argument because itís so flawed.
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Old 8th May 2021, 23:13
  #1765 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 51
flawed? How?
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Old 9th May 2021, 02:01
  #1766 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Age: 43
Posts: 3,296
There's no upper step. And people mostly do not come to Wizz to join the proper high-class EU airlines later, they come because they were not accepted there in the first place.

The exit trajectory was to the ME, which is A) gone B) a dubious choice for many years already.

Yet there was a proper reason to join, the ATPLf / TR path for a new pilot. WZZ scheme was very honest and has helped legions get their first and(!) jet job. The stories I hear from the freelance TRIs about pink cadets are very uplifting. Engaged, motivated, trained to proper standard and smart lizards they are, exactly the way you'd wish them to be. Young talents, literally.

What do you with that job 5 years later is the Kobayashi Maru.

Last edited by FlightDetent; 9th May 2021 at 07:10.
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Old 9th May 2021, 05:30
  #1767 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: NAT-HLA
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The main problem is the total lack of intra European trade unions.

There are a few existing ones, but I'm afraid that they are only european by name. I couldn't find any blanket legislation providing an equal right to negotiate and to stand in court if needed throughout all European member states for these unions.

In aviation, regarding businesses of Ryanair or Wizzair, etc., it would be impossible to strike for example in Poland and the same time to prevent the seats to be filled by Romanian or Hungarian pilots in the same time. Works vice versa unfortunately.

If we can get that part right (in a federal Europe would be rather easy) these companies would have a much narrower playing field when it comes to further degrading their workers' conditions and rights.

I stand to be corrected regarding all of the above of course.
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Old 9th May 2021, 06:36
  #1768 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: France
Posts: 140
With regards to trade unions, it was always the intention of the EU to make sure there would be no intra European ones. It does make it almost impossible to fight a company like Wizz air outside countries with strong legislation and unions.
And the steppingstone comment is, as mentioned by others, flawed. You couldíve argued there might be a way to Ezy or other real jobs before COVID and yes quite a lot of good Wizz air pilots did go that way. Now that route is completely closed for the foreseeable future and as Wizz competes on the same routes they are in effect destroying the next step up by accepting T&Cs that are at best half as good as other companies.
Fact is good conditions are disappearing and the direct reason for this is pilots accepting jobs on inferior T&Cs. I am fully aware though that some pilots feel thereís no choice as theyíve already invested everything to get to paid job in a jet. Itís not straight forward sadly.
What should be a straight forward choice is for young people to NOT sink their money and future into this business and ending up working for peanuts in Wizz air in few years having started training after COVID. It will get absolutely zero sympathy from anyone.
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Old 9th May 2021, 07:21
  #1769 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
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Unicorns. Unions, whatever. Ain't gonna happen. Dreaming of weapons you do not have has but a single outcome, annihilation.

Fight with what you have and stop lying to one's self about self-perceived needs and requirements. France did it, blasted RYR out. Resulting in even the ill-famed TravelService offering 16k to summer contract captains.

No traffic rights unless the AOC holder has 85 % of pilot and cabin crew staff properly employed for at least 2 years prior. This can be made into a political thing and rightfully so, it's job protection for the local residents AND taxpayers. Possibly piggy-backed ontop the green agenda of allocating true cost to the business that consumes the resources. Make all pay their full own share and the leeches will fall off soon due to lack of unfair advantage.

But instead, we prefer to bitch about a jerk who dare to mention there might be bad apples and people abusing the sick-leave system. We stand united in resentment but not solutions.

Last edited by FlightDetent; 9th May 2021 at 07:44.
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Old 9th May 2021, 07:44
  #1770 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: France
Posts: 140
Ryanair did leave MRS years ago but wouldn’t have gone anywhere without constant pressure from SNPL. Ryanair is now based in France and have french contracts supported by SNPL. (Maybe some Ryanair guys can confirm this for us?)Yes the T&Cs are not as good as certain competitors but it’s above board fro the most part. I promise you that would not have happened without strong union pressure. But sure your ideas are not bad either.
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Old 9th May 2021, 10:22
  #1771 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
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Posts: 3,296
I was seriously not up to date about RYR coming back. The fact they did and pay social security contributions with fully contracted pilots shows there was no malicious intent, just greed. And the same made them come back after the theatrical exit was staged. Money talks - no, money walks.

Speaking of uni(c)o(r)ns above, without full explanation for brevity, this mythical pan-European thing is what I had in mind. Or even single-country WZZ thing.

The SNPL involvement excatly fits the puzzle the way I see it. Not to mention that SNPL was not RYR pilot's union and most definitely not a cross-border union. What was possible was done, shaping the landscape where the rouge operated. The solution exists, political pressure using the tools already at hand. Proudly and responsibly, protecting their home turf.

You actually made my day.

I still hold it true that RYR ejected for the newly enforced obligation to pay into social security system in France. If that's union work, even better.

Last edited by FlightDetent; 9th May 2021 at 10:53.
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Old 9th May 2021, 15:13
  #1772 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: France
Posts: 140
Well I suppose a union is only as strong as itís allowed to be under the national legislation. Balpa might be the best example of this a very unionised workforce in many companies but with very little real power.
Anyway hopefully some young hopeful out there will think twice about the prospect of spending their money and talent on the prospect of working for the lowest common denominator and maybe do something more useful with their lives.
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Old 9th May 2021, 15:20
  #1773 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 51
Au contraire, when they're one of the only airline that will hire right out of flight school with 210hrs, do you blame young hopefuls for joining in a heart beat ?
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Old 9th May 2021, 15:58
  #1774 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
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Age: 43
Posts: 3,296
No, he actually does not.
​​​​​
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Old 9th May 2021, 15:59
  #1775 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: France
Posts: 140
well yes..
As I’ve written earlier if you walk into this knowing what you’re signing up for even before you’ve invested a single euro into your training I do blame the individual for absolutely screwing over their own future as well as everyone else’s.
If you’re all ready knee deep into it then it is what it is. I’m not a fan of joining these guys but I understand these guys are in a complicated situation.
But why would any sane person spend more than 100.000 euro to qualify for a job that’ll never pay more than a McDonald’s supervisor? It makes absolutely zero sense.
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Old 9th May 2021, 16:06
  #1776 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: France
Posts: 140
And just to emphasise for the young hopefuls out there. Thereís no future in this industry. If thereís time to back out I suggest doing that and spending your lives and talents on something else. Thereíll be no good recovery from COVID and T&Cs for most pilots will very permanently be effected and under constant decline.
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Old 9th May 2021, 17:51
  #1777 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Amantido
Posts: 734
Yes, the current situation is grim and it will be grim at least for one more year, but FFS you need a reality check on the stuff you're writing.
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Old 9th May 2021, 18:00
  #1778 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: France
Posts: 140
how’s that mr Banana?
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Old 9th May 2021, 18:01
  #1779 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 51
Let me guess you walked straight into a well paying BA and didn't have to find a job, didn't you I bet if you was in a newly graduated pilots position you'd grab anything you could. Anyone would, the salaries for an FO are low, but the captains isn't that bad in the grand scheme of things, plus time to command will be lower its a low cost buget airline what do you expect? If you dont like it dont apply, it won't stop others who want to land that all important first job.
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Old 9th May 2021, 18:21
  #1780 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: France
Posts: 140
.. that’s just about as far from hitting the nail on the head as someone could possibly be😂
mate, I instructed for years, flew in war zones for years on old tp and worked my way to a jet. Been flying for 25 years and no I’m not with BA. Nice airline though and I’ve got plenty of former colleagues who are happy there.
But to the point; as I’ve stated earlier if you’re in a situation with a fresh license and Wizz is your shot of course you go for it. I understand a lot of these guys are not in a position to be picky. That being said “the all important first job” comment is exactly the problem. Where do you imagine yourself going after this? Honest question. ME is out, BA and Ezy will not be hiring for years to come and you might get Ryanair in Lauda disguise on similar terms as Wizz. So what’s actually left to step on to? The more cheap fo’s helping Wizz along with cheap labour the fewer jobs will be available at the well paying competition. This has been the progression for many many years and it’s only getting worse.
Another honest question; what’s your idea of reasonable pay? I think we might be on very different pages here..
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