£110k+ EZY MPL scheme
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Just to clarify..the cadets in BA used to pay back £250 per month for 5 years AS WELL as being on cadet pay scales for the first 5 years.
All in all I think we paid back about £30k in the form of these salary deductions and reduced pay rates for pay points 1-5.
The cost of an integrated course at OAT circa 1999 when I was there was about £50k. I reckon BA would have been paying a fraction of that as they were effectively buying in bulk.
it was a good deal for BA and a good deal for the cadets. The numbers today are eyewatering and I'm not entirely sure where and how one obtains a £100k unsecured loan either.
All in all I think we paid back about £30k in the form of these salary deductions and reduced pay rates for pay points 1-5.
The cost of an integrated course at OAT circa 1999 when I was there was about £50k. I reckon BA would have been paying a fraction of that as they were effectively buying in bulk.
it was a good deal for BA and a good deal for the cadets. The numbers today are eyewatering and I'm not entirely sure where and how one obtains a £100k unsecured loan either.
Originally Posted by FANS
Mods - can you please close this thread.
It is apparent that this is of no concern to experienced crew, and is only for the (rich) wannabes.
It is apparent that this is of no concern to experienced crew, and is only for the (rich) wannabes.
By making experienced crews aware of these schemes, maybe we can start acting as an industry instead of a company of pilots or individuals.
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By making experienced crews aware of these schemes, maybe we can start acting as an industry instead of a company of pilots or individuals
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WBF
WBF - What do you know about 'the raw love of flying' ?!?
4400 ish hours flying 'raw data' 20 mile finals in an A320 with 7 modes of protection between you and any drama ?
Give me a break, its clear you love your job and thats great but don't pretend its something its not. I have friends in Easy who are very open about why they are there (salary and a good variety of bases) and i respect them much more for their honesty.
If you think flying an A320 is that exciting go fly a C208b or a DHC6 into some short strips in wild weather... source ?! I've flown all three.
4400 ish hours flying 'raw data' 20 mile finals in an A320 with 7 modes of protection between you and any drama ?
Give me a break, its clear you love your job and thats great but don't pretend its something its not. I have friends in Easy who are very open about why they are there (salary and a good variety of bases) and i respect them much more for their honesty.
If you think flying an A320 is that exciting go fly a C208b or a DHC6 into some short strips in wild weather... source ?! I've flown all three.
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Jaxofmarlow, thanks, I'm glad we are more on the same terms now! I hope things have settled and you've had some luck with the easy application.
Cgwhitemonk11, It's not for you to measure what I know about the raw love of flying. Who do you think you are? And at 26 whole years old! I didn't say 20 mile final approaches - I said visual approaches, rolling wings level at 4 miles, 7.5 degree approaches, managing the energy, tail wind following you around, VFR traffic from a light aircraft airport which is at exactly 8 miles final on a sunny saturday afternoon and rotor effect at 500 feet all compound to make for a challenging and enjoyable approach - I'm based at an airport in a mountainous area!
If you fly the A320 you'll know that the '7 modes of protection' don't do much for you normal ops - having a flap overspeed, alpha floor, pulling the wings off in a turn or breaking air rules doesn't help you keep a job or curry favour with your colleague in the flight deck. Doing it well and having a 'nice job' from the captain as you grease it on in the touch down zone, on the centreline is rewarding, fulfilling and meaningful - to me!
My job is everything I say it is. It's an extremely responsible, qualified, fulfilling, enjoyable, inspiring, beautiful job and I'm grateful to be doing it - not at any cost I'll hasten to add. The earlies and lates are not ideal, the sitting down all the time can give me a bad back and the crew food and uniform are poo! But who cares when I get paid well and enjoy my job - I take it seriously and revise regularly - as should every pilot. Some FOs don't though (perhaps because they are from club 2-4
), get by on naff all knowledge, perform averagely at best and think the job is a joke - when in fact, they're the unprofessional joke - they're again the subject of many a captain's rants. Fortunately, as an FO, I very, very, very, very rarely have to fly with these types. My mates from training, across many airlines across the world do however take the job the same way I do and I put that in part, it pains me to say, down to the way CTC trained us.
I've flown the king Air into snow covered scandinavian runways and piss wet through 750m, 25m wide VFR runways too, thanks. I'm sure it's not quite raw and manly enough for you though.
4468, I became a pilot for those reasons. I justified it because of the income and ability to sustain a career in it for 40 years (offices frustrate and bore me). Many of my pals who decided to stay in the AAC for 8-10 years are at a loose end now with 2000 hours on a lynx. I'm sure it was fun but once you've left, which all want to do, it doesn't qualify you to put food on the table, buy BA holidays, flown by you, to the Carribean or allow you to be established early enough on - as we can see from how rapidly things are changing, please forget how it was back when you left the military 27 years ago and joined BA!
This thread isn't about tme - I enjoy my job, I'm grateful (but could walk away from the job and industry and I intend to make myself robust in this respect.) and I know that the skills, qualifications and ability needed to have a long successful career will mean people sink or swim. I reiterate, it's people's choice to spend what they will on their futures - it could be a lot worse - this could be America!
Cgwhitemonk11, It's not for you to measure what I know about the raw love of flying. Who do you think you are? And at 26 whole years old! I didn't say 20 mile final approaches - I said visual approaches, rolling wings level at 4 miles, 7.5 degree approaches, managing the energy, tail wind following you around, VFR traffic from a light aircraft airport which is at exactly 8 miles final on a sunny saturday afternoon and rotor effect at 500 feet all compound to make for a challenging and enjoyable approach - I'm based at an airport in a mountainous area!
If you fly the A320 you'll know that the '7 modes of protection' don't do much for you normal ops - having a flap overspeed, alpha floor, pulling the wings off in a turn or breaking air rules doesn't help you keep a job or curry favour with your colleague in the flight deck. Doing it well and having a 'nice job' from the captain as you grease it on in the touch down zone, on the centreline is rewarding, fulfilling and meaningful - to me!
My job is everything I say it is. It's an extremely responsible, qualified, fulfilling, enjoyable, inspiring, beautiful job and I'm grateful to be doing it - not at any cost I'll hasten to add. The earlies and lates are not ideal, the sitting down all the time can give me a bad back and the crew food and uniform are poo! But who cares when I get paid well and enjoy my job - I take it seriously and revise regularly - as should every pilot. Some FOs don't though (perhaps because they are from club 2-4
), get by on naff all knowledge, perform averagely at best and think the job is a joke - when in fact, they're the unprofessional joke - they're again the subject of many a captain's rants. Fortunately, as an FO, I very, very, very, very rarely have to fly with these types. My mates from training, across many airlines across the world do however take the job the same way I do and I put that in part, it pains me to say, down to the way CTC trained us.I've flown the king Air into snow covered scandinavian runways and piss wet through 750m, 25m wide VFR runways too, thanks. I'm sure it's not quite raw and manly enough for you though.
4468, I became a pilot for those reasons. I justified it because of the income and ability to sustain a career in it for 40 years (offices frustrate and bore me). Many of my pals who decided to stay in the AAC for 8-10 years are at a loose end now with 2000 hours on a lynx. I'm sure it was fun but once you've left, which all want to do, it doesn't qualify you to put food on the table, buy BA holidays, flown by you, to the Carribean or allow you to be established early enough on - as we can see from how rapidly things are changing, please forget how it was back when you left the military 27 years ago and joined BA!
This thread isn't about tme - I enjoy my job, I'm grateful (but could walk away from the job and industry and I intend to make myself robust in this respect.) and I know that the skills, qualifications and ability needed to have a long successful career will mean people sink or swim. I reiterate, it's people's choice to spend what they will on their futures - it could be a lot worse - this could be America!
go fly a C208b or a DHC6 into some short strips in wild weather...
I've flown the king Air into snow covered scandinavian runways and piss wet through 750m, 25m wide VFR runways too, thanks.
But saying that makes my sound like an old you know what, and anyhow I digress.....
walks.
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Seems this is becoming a great big pissing contest.
You are not a man (or wimmin) with great big hairy testicles until you have flown with yours eyes closed,buttocks clenched, and armpits swimming in sweat onto the thunderbirds home island strip with Parker hanging on every word and Lady P spent in the forward galley.
You are not a man (or wimmin) with great big hairy testicles until you have flown with yours eyes closed,buttocks clenched, and armpits swimming in sweat onto the thunderbirds home island strip with Parker hanging on every word and Lady P spent in the forward galley.
Last edited by JosuaNkomo; 21st Oct 2014 at 14:03. Reason: sarcasm
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This thread has descended into chaos, with essays on the beauty of raw data approaches/BA vs EZY ops/BA vs EZY entry requirements etc.
It's not relevant, but on the plus side these new cadets will have some excellent blogs/twitter accounts/youtube videos to show mummy and daddy the beauty of what they've bought.
It's not relevant, but on the plus side these new cadets will have some excellent blogs/twitter accounts/youtube videos to show mummy and daddy the beauty of what they've bought.
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Have you flown an airliner or professional military aircraft (not a cadet type arrangement) FANS? A Boeing, an Airbus, an Embraer, a Bombardier or a Canadair? An actual plane - not a sim, full motion or otherwise.
If not, which I suspect is the case, and 'your way' didn't work, perhaps you'd take your strong opinions, bitterness and anger elsewhere.
If not, which I suspect is the case, and 'your way' didn't work, perhaps you'd take your strong opinions, bitterness and anger elsewhere.
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WBF
I'll ignore the tone of your reply and before the thread is closed simply point out one thing. The issue people have the problem with is not you or your enjoyment of your role (quite seriously that is a rarity these days so good for you).
The issue is by the time you have your command the guy sitting in the RHS next to you will never have gone through any real world flying experience outside of Easy, and will have paid extortionately to be in that seat, and you hardly have a world of experience yourself. (Nor do I, for context)
Now 99% of the time who cares sure the things fly themselves these days but I don't look forward to when the MPL moves to the LHS and we have Dual MPL upfront, do you?
The issue is by the time you have your command the guy sitting in the RHS next to you will never have gone through any real world flying experience outside of Easy, and will have paid extortionately to be in that seat, and you hardly have a world of experience yourself. (Nor do I, for context)
Now 99% of the time who cares sure the things fly themselves these days but I don't look forward to when the MPL moves to the LHS and we have Dual MPL upfront, do you?
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Would you feel better if they had 1000 hours bashing circuits in VMC instructing experience from 10 years ago?
Experience gained in the environment you wish to utilize it in is far more valuable than that not.
(disclaimer, I am NOT saying that SEP instructing inexperience is not valuable. But it is an extremely rare circumstance in airline flying that requires those skills vs the skills gained from flying multi-crew jets.)
Experience gained in the environment you wish to utilize it in is far more valuable than that not.
(disclaimer, I am NOT saying that SEP instructing inexperience is not valuable. But it is an extremely rare circumstance in airline flying that requires those skills vs the skills gained from flying multi-crew jets.)
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Absolutely loving this thread! I'm sure any potential pilots are too!
WBF
Don't know where you got your info from, but it's only 25 years since I left the World's finest Air Force!
Wiggy
You and I need to realise that there comes a time when we don't just sound like KOSs!!!
Please keep going chaps. I'll swing the chandelles
We need more threads on 'war stories'!
WBF
Don't know where you got your info from, but it's only 25 years since I left the World's finest Air Force!
Wiggy
You and I need to realise that there comes a time when we don't just sound like KOSs!!!
Please keep going chaps. I'll swing the chandelles
We need more threads on 'war stories'!
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I would like to live in a world where at least one of the men/women at the front of an 80 tonne jet travelling at 500 mphish had spent 1000 hrs actually flying an aeroplane….
so yes, that would be preferable provided they didn't go in as DEC
so yes, that would be preferable provided they didn't go in as DEC
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Blantoon
An instructor, even in a C150, will at least have explored the flight envelope. A pilot who has pretty much only ever flown an airliner (95% on autopilot) never ever will! No matter how many hours he/she has!
(You familiar with AF447??)
It seems to give one a certain appreciation that some used to call 'airmanship'.
I believe that may be the invaluable 'experience' to which others refer?
Come to think of it, what was the specific experience of the AF447 pilots at the controls? I genuinely don't know. Some seem to think these machines are just big computers, completely overlooking the fact that they are STILL aeroplanes carrying hundreds of soft skinned humans!
An instructor, even in a C150, will at least have explored the flight envelope. A pilot who has pretty much only ever flown an airliner (95% on autopilot) never ever will! No matter how many hours he/she has!
(You familiar with AF447??)
It seems to give one a certain appreciation that some used to call 'airmanship'.
I believe that may be the invaluable 'experience' to which others refer?
Come to think of it, what was the specific experience of the AF447 pilots at the controls? I genuinely don't know. Some seem to think these machines are just big computers, completely overlooking the fact that they are STILL aeroplanes carrying hundreds of soft skinned humans!
Last edited by 4468; 21st Oct 2014 at 20:23.
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My interest is not as a prof pilot in any way, but £££. Same as the guys at inflexion and ezy, and indeed many of you on the other of the coin.
These threads are useful to me as the opportunities that ctc and ezy amongst others have generated also apply to other regulated sectors.
Where I struggle is with selection by parent's wealth. If Clifford or GS did it, there'd be hell on. Some of you seem to defend it, and then wonder why management keep pick pocketing you.
These threads are useful to me as the opportunities that ctc and ezy amongst others have generated also apply to other regulated sectors.
Where I struggle is with selection by parent's wealth. If Clifford or GS did it, there'd be hell on. Some of you seem to defend it, and then wonder why management keep pick pocketing you.