£110k+ EZY MPL scheme

[dontforgetthecowls]

There is some interesting debate on this.

I applied for the MPL and got rejected by easyJet after attending their final stage selection at Luton. I have subsequently been accepted on to the BA program. So its not just a case of having the money.

The BA program is £ 94k, they will act as a guarantor on the loan. But its at a fairly penal rate of 3.9%. They pay back £84k of it over the period of 7 years. easyJet dont pay the loan back, but you earn the going rate for a First Officer vs a reduced payscale at BA.

You can guarantee the loan against a house for either easyJet and BA at a rate of 3%. But in both cases your still going to be carrying debt around your neck for 7 years... At least with easyJet you have a chance of having a captains wage within that time to pay it off.

The difference for the cost of the courses is that easyJet require a contribution (or the whole amount?) towards the type rating. The latter phases of the MPL simulator training need to be conducted by a TRI, which is obviously going to be more expensive than a straight CPL/IR instructor.

I wasn't too concerned about the agency aspect of the MPL, because you can effectively offset your training costs against your tax bill. It will take a long time to use up the 100k and you will pay a negligible amount of tax whilst your remain a contractor.

No doubt that the BA program is better for the majority. However if you want to live up north and command is important to you, then its worth looking at the MPL..

[dontforgetthecowls]

...the other thing is that because the MPL has to include the 1500 hours to unfreeze the MPL, if you meet the performance criteria required during the training you have a guarantee of at least 1500 hours with easyJet.

Whereas with BA, the caveat with the employment offer is that BA require pilots when you finish training. If they dont, you have £ 94k of debt and no jet experience.

So if the Financial Crisis V2 happens, then easyJet will still have to give you 1500 hours. Or they are breaching their contract (assuming you meet the required training standard)

[ManUtd1999]

Whereas with BA, the caveat with the employment offer is that BA require pilots when you finish training. If they dont, you have £ 94k of debt and no jet experience.

So if the Financial Crisis V2 happens, then easyJet will still have to give you 1500 hours. Or they are breaching their contract (assuming you meet the required training standard)

True, but 94,000 debt secured against BA is infinitely better than 110,000 of debt secured against a house, despite a slightly higher risk of unemployment in the first couple of years. In reality the risk of BA dropping you is vey low anyway, historically they have always given cadets jobs even if they've had to wait a bit. The risk of EZY not making you permanent or reducing your hours/wage after your 12 months flexicrew? I'd say substantially higher....

[MichaelOLearyGenius]

£110k, I'd willingly sell both my kidneys to get in there.

[Blantoon]

Historically Monarch have never dropped cadets either until all of a sudden a few months ago it happens. "Historically" isn't necessarily the best thing to go on in aviation when things are changing. BAs recruitment needs have certainly changed in the past, and with short haul review coming up I'd say it's not a sure thing.

As for the risk of EZY reducing your hours/wage after 12 months? Pretty much nil chance. BALPA did very well to secure the NEC which guarantees you only spend a max of a year before being interviewed for permanent SO (with the vast majority passing the interview). Which is £40k+ first year at the moment.

That being said. Both schemes are the best choice a budding new pilot has. Pre-tagged is the least risky way forward these days.

[FANS]

Cowls, you're missing the point; if you don't have access to the funding for ezy, you could be the best in the world but you aren't getting through.

[G-F0RC3]

...if you don't have access to the funding for ezy, you could be the best in the world but you aren't getting through.

This has always been my view. A cadetship should ideally be about finding the best pilots for the airline, not the best pilots who can raise £25k. Having said that, there's no shortage of very capable people who can afford to pay the £25k, so it's unlikely to have a substantial effect on the average standard of pilots EZY will eventually end up with.

But anything that has a high chance of getting you into the RHS of an Airbus is clearly still a fantastic opportunity.

[Gingerbread Man]

So, what we're saying is "life isn't fair".

I think I'll write that down.

[Alycidon]

A cadetship should ideally be about finding the best pilots for the airline

totally right, but this is not a cadetship in the traditional sense, the moneygrabbers call it that to attract the mugs, it is nothing more than an indenture.

[centropy]

I wasn't too concerned about the agency aspect of the MPL, because you can effectively offset your training costs against your tax bill. It will take a long time to use up the 100k and you will pay a negligible amount of tax whilst your remain a contractor.

During your time as Flexicrew, you're employed by ARL(CTC) and contracted to Easyjet so you can't offset any tax. Sorry.

BALPA did very well to secure the NEC which guarantees you only spend a max of a year before being interviewed for permanent SO (with the vast majority passing the interview)

To be exact it's between 12-18 months depending on your start date, as Easyjet only issue contracts twice a year. I'm aware of people who have not passed this interview however they can continue to fly as Flexicrew and get another crack at the whip at a later date.

[ManUtd1999]

That's a bit of an odd situation. If you're not deemed good enough for a permanent contract, why are you good enough to continue flying for EZY through flexicrew? After all, you still fly the same a/c, same routes, same passengers...

[Enzo999]

I personally believe that any scheme that allows new people to enter a profession so massive saturated with qualified unemployed people is wrong, irrespective of cost. There simply is not the UK demand to provide everyone with work every time a cadet gets a job; it unfortunately comes at the expense of someone else.

For the lucky few that have the funds to buy themselves a job at EZ, my advice is buy it and never leave, because life outside EZ and BA is a living nightmare and it gets worse every day!

[Xulu]

You aren't able to continue as Flexi indefinitely.

If you fail assessment, you are given one more chance to pass. If you fail a second time you are chopped.

Until that second interview chance, you may continue to fly temporarily. It is a job interview for a career with the airline. They want everyone to pass.

[cvg2iln]

Until that second interview chance, you may continue to fly temporarily. It is a job interview for a career with the airline. They want everyone to pass.

Peachy. So you've once failed to make the grade and will potentially fail to again make the grade on a second attempt yet still get to waggle the yoke on a revenue trip with paying punters in the back?

A bit flexible on standards, is it not?

[4468]

A bit flexible on standards, is it not?

This isn't about finding the best pilots.

It's about finding the cheapest pilots. (for the company!)

So passengers can enjoy their cheap tickets, and the board can enjoy their generous bonuses.

Mind you, if I was Easy, I don't think I would invest in pilots who will almost universally view it as a 'stepping stone' airline. One with no sustainable life for anyone attempting to remain for forty years of same, same, same, same, same.

[Blantoon]

To be exact it's between 12-18 months depending on your start date, as Easyjet only issue contracts twice a year. I'm aware of people who have not passed this interview however they can continue to fly as Flexicrew and get another crack at the whip at a later date.

The latest I'm aware of it's 4 times a year, so 12-15 months. But we're splitting hairs now.

And 4468, don't talk smack about a recruiting and training process that you know nothing about, and that famously produces an excellent standard of pilot.

[WhyByFlier]

To borrow your sentence, 4468, you seem to have a real axe to grind over Easyjet. Why is that???

BA aren't exactly being generous or altruistic by charging £94K are they? And let's see what the upshot is with the SH and eventual LH reviews shall we? Every job is 40 years of 'same, same, same, same, same' - including heart surgeons et al. Only easy are bringing in new routes every year, the choice of 10s of good regional bases and the opportunity to be home every night so you have something else in your life and don't need work to continually be riding and allegedly stimulating your time. We also, as you know, have the varied elements to our job of the weather, different crews and a high standard to meet.

[4468]

Posting at 0348 WBF?

That must be you off on another four sector early report I guess? Doesn't that get to be a bit of a grind after a while? How will you feel if you make it to forty years?????

Which strips of tarmac have you visited today?

Easy have good standards. (But then most UK airlines have to.) That doesn't change the fact that, because of the work, it's largely a 'stepping stone' airline. Which is why I don't blame Easy for not wishing to invest in people who will run off to better prospects as soon as they can.

A quick question if I may. What is the retention rate at Easy, because I know for a fact we see large numbers applying to BA? (Including some who felt compelled to declare themselves bankrupt rather than attempt to payback any training loan!) I assume a fair number go to the big carriers abroad too? Plus Virgin etc?

[Jwscud]

WhyByFlier, FR offer the same too, with added nostalgia. They are also much more equal opportunity employers than EZY - modular, experienced FI, integrated, experienced GA. All are welcome (if they can pay for the TR). The downsides of FR are much-rehearsed and I would say much worse than EZY, but the flying and opportunities they offer are similar.

If you are talking simple price, it is possible to get a job at FR for half the money of EZY If you choose to go modular, but that's an argument for the wannabes forum.

[G-F0RC3]

This isn't about finding the best pilots.

It's about finding the cheapest pilots. (for the company!)

How is this true? There are so many already-qualified people looking for jobs that EZY could offer them a relatively poorly paid position as an FO and the vast majority of them would take it. Little training costs; little recruitment/selection costs; low salaries. This would be my definition of "cheapest" pilots, but it's not what EZY are doing. So I disagree that it's entirely about finding the cheapest pilots. If you look at it purely objectively and try to work out the strategy behind the current recruitment situation at EZY then you'll quickly see that cost is only one aspect of it.