easyJet DEC Gatwick?
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Odd that the bad uns I spoke about were in LGW (some years ago though). As I said I can maybe get to 1 problem a year. But hey please continue to gossip about FO's amongst colleagues and make sure that they will never get a chance to make a first impression.
Lovely base you must be in! Instead of gossiping maybe you should try to improve things.
Lovely base you must be in! Instead of gossiping maybe you should try to improve things.
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Similarly, 10 would seem too few given the hassle associated with creating a system for recruiting DECs for the first time, unless, it is 10 now with further recruitment anticipated in the future.
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We've taken DEC before at Easy, just not for a few years in the UK. Again it was a similar situation, chronic shortage of Captains and not enough Sfo's to promote in the time required, combined with another airline shrinking/going under.
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Think 20 and you'll be closer to reality. There are a few heading for BA longhaul though. They could push that figure up a but.
As WBV said - this isn't a new development. They've been doing it ad-hoc for years. The important bit is ensuring those who are genuinely ready for command get a crack at it.
As WBV said - this isn't a new development. They've been doing it ad-hoc for years. The important bit is ensuring those who are genuinely ready for command get a crack at it.
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I've not seen any adverts for DEC Gatwick? Presumably Easy are contacting Monarch directly to see suitability of suitable candidates.
I can't believe some guys on here saying bravo to easy for helping out the monarch captains. Monarch, until recently, was a very safe, long term career. No chance these guys ever thought they would have to stoop so low as to join the LoCo brigade.
Any port in a storm, and a cornered rat is a dangerous beast
I can't believe some guys on here saying bravo to easy for helping out the monarch captains. Monarch, until recently, was a very safe, long term career. No chance these guys ever thought they would have to stoop so low as to join the LoCo brigade.
Any port in a storm, and a cornered rat is a dangerous beast
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'Monarch was a very safe , long term career ', are you aware of what has been going on ?? Probably one of the most stupid comments I have ever seen on this site !
As regards to 'stooping' so low as to join a loco , I have some very good friends at Monarch who would be very keen on jumping ship to a more secure & apparently long term outfit.
A job with low hours & high pay is going to be a very short lived one in this industry . I have never worked for Easyjet & understand you may have to work hard for them , however , longevity with a choice of European bases , a good share scheme & great company profits sounds like a good option to me.
Once again , hats off to Easyjet management for identifying good quality candidates from the likes of Monarch , good to see experience appreciated in the industry these days !!
As regards to 'stooping' so low as to join a loco , I have some very good friends at Monarch who would be very keen on jumping ship to a more secure & apparently long term outfit.
A job with low hours & high pay is going to be a very short lived one in this industry . I have never worked for Easyjet & understand you may have to work hard for them , however , longevity with a choice of European bases , a good share scheme & great company profits sounds like a good option to me.
Once again , hats off to Easyjet management for identifying good quality candidates from the likes of Monarch , good to see experience appreciated in the industry these days !!
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Most people don't get any problems with First Officers at Gatwick, and the standard is not any different now than it was a few years ago. In my experience, if you treat people with respect, in 99.9% of cases they will respond well. All FOs understandably want to be captains, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that - if they have reached the required standard, there are few companies in the world that can offer the promotion opportunities easyJet can.
However, that is the sideline conversation here. It is absolute nonsense that easyJet 'need' DECs at Gatwick - they do not and there are dozens of perfectly good FOs queuing up to be Captains. As long as there is one qualified and capable FO in easyJet who wants to be a captain at Gatwick then there are no grounds for employing a DEC in his place. What on earth BALPA are doing over this I do not know - very little by the sound of things. No one has an issue with easyJet offering jobs to Monarch guys - but they do have an issue with them taking the commands of current FOs around the Company. The Monarch guys can join as FOs like everyone else at Gatwick and take their turn in the queue. There is a rapid promotion system available and they will be captains again in a couple of years at whatever bases have vacancies at the time. What Monarch pilot would have accepted DECs there? You've guessed it, not a single one. This is nothing to do with Monarch pilots' abilities - they are clearly top people and highly competent at what they do. This is all about leasyJet pilots looking after the interests of their own colleagues, because no one else will. It is absolutely not the responsibility of the easyJet CC to look after Monarch's pilots - their sole job is to look after the pilots in their own company.
However, that is the sideline conversation here. It is absolute nonsense that easyJet 'need' DECs at Gatwick - they do not and there are dozens of perfectly good FOs queuing up to be Captains. As long as there is one qualified and capable FO in easyJet who wants to be a captain at Gatwick then there are no grounds for employing a DEC in his place. What on earth BALPA are doing over this I do not know - very little by the sound of things. No one has an issue with easyJet offering jobs to Monarch guys - but they do have an issue with them taking the commands of current FOs around the Company. The Monarch guys can join as FOs like everyone else at Gatwick and take their turn in the queue. There is a rapid promotion system available and they will be captains again in a couple of years at whatever bases have vacancies at the time. What Monarch pilot would have accepted DECs there? You've guessed it, not a single one. This is nothing to do with Monarch pilots' abilities - they are clearly top people and highly competent at what they do. This is all about leasyJet pilots looking after the interests of their own colleagues, because no one else will. It is absolutely not the responsibility of the easyJet CC to look after Monarch's pilots - their sole job is to look after the pilots in their own company.
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Count you raise some good points. However the standard career path in ezy CTC Cadet FO Capt in quick time is oft stated as one of the benefits for working for a loco.
It may have passed you by but one of the other "benefits" to working for a loco is that they dont tend to have a seniority system ala some of the better airlines
Im sure taking a big picture view that having an airline where the bulk of the crews have followed a very similar path to greatness, could have inherent weaknesses. Maybe it adds strength to the whole picture having the surprise opportunity to add such a large number of very capable and experienced guys into the left hand seat.
Joinuing an airline with no seniority list, and then griping on a web forum that its not fair that your company hasnt adhered to a non-existent seniority list - does sort of highlight the attitude/behaviour based problems that could occur due having such a fixed career path in such a big airline
Just a thought
It may have passed you by but one of the other "benefits" to working for a loco is that they dont tend to have a seniority system ala some of the better airlines
Im sure taking a big picture view that having an airline where the bulk of the crews have followed a very similar path to greatness, could have inherent weaknesses. Maybe it adds strength to the whole picture having the surprise opportunity to add such a large number of very capable and experienced guys into the left hand seat.
Joinuing an airline with no seniority list, and then griping on a web forum that its not fair that your company hasnt adhered to a non-existent seniority list - does sort of highlight the attitude/behaviour based problems that could occur due having such a fixed career path in such a big airline
Just a thought
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It may simply be that there aren't enough suitable SFO's for the forthcoming command course's, I know of 2 who have been taken off Decembers course for different reasons.
I flew with a SFO last week and asked when his course was, he said there was a new process whereby he could defer his command course until a vacancy existed at one of his 3 chosen bases. What a great idea that is. saves him having to turn down a course and saves easy from having to replace him at the last moment, or not as the case may be.
Encouraging to see easy are evolving the whole process and how great that I get to fly with this chap a while longer!
I flew with a SFO last week and asked when his course was, he said there was a new process whereby he could defer his command course until a vacancy existed at one of his 3 chosen bases. What a great idea that is. saves him having to turn down a course and saves easy from having to replace him at the last moment, or not as the case may be.
Encouraging to see easy are evolving the whole process and how great that I get to fly with this chap a while longer!
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First of all, as John Smith has said, easyJet has a seniority system in all but name for command promotion. I do, however, disagree with his take on the merits of seniority - it has been a protection that has prevented management promoting 'good chaps', their mates, wives' tennis partners or favoured individuals who have have caught their eye by doing naff secondary duties 'a la RAF'. Yes it has stifled movement, but we all know if a company goes under you are tossed into a sea of uncertainty. I am delighted to be something of a lifeboat for Monarch pilots but not at any cost to our own pilots.
We currently have a command list that grows by the day. I fully accept that the Monarch pilots would be a great asset to any company, and I will welcome them with open arms. Nonetheless they should take their place as FOs and join the queue of other top quality pilots already here - every DEC from Monarch is a current easyJet FO who loses his command. Monarch pilots would never, ever have countenanced such a process there and we should not do so here. Our own internally promoted FOs are almost universally top quality pilots and have all gone through a rigorous selection and training system to get their well-earned command.
A parallel has been drawn over the previous takeovers/mergers with Go and GB Airways, where every pilot came across at their original rank. The key difference there, apart from the fact these were effective takeovers were that these companies brought a pile of aircraft with them and no one was disadvantaged in the process. Ultimately the BALPA CC at easyJet need to get stuck into this and do what they were elected to do - represent the interests of easyJet pilots.
We currently have a command list that grows by the day. I fully accept that the Monarch pilots would be a great asset to any company, and I will welcome them with open arms. Nonetheless they should take their place as FOs and join the queue of other top quality pilots already here - every DEC from Monarch is a current easyJet FO who loses his command. Monarch pilots would never, ever have countenanced such a process there and we should not do so here. Our own internally promoted FOs are almost universally top quality pilots and have all gone through a rigorous selection and training system to get their well-earned command.
A parallel has been drawn over the previous takeovers/mergers with Go and GB Airways, where every pilot came across at their original rank. The key difference there, apart from the fact these were effective takeovers were that these companies brought a pile of aircraft with them and no one was disadvantaged in the process. Ultimately the BALPA CC at easyJet need to get stuck into this and do what they were elected to do - represent the interests of easyJet pilots.
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Same old stuff.
As I have said before and acknowledged by John_Smith…In any normal industry, people made redundant/ forcibly demoted are at liberty to find another job at the same level and make a sideways move. Unfortunately, this ridiculous industry is far from normal.
What is so special about aviation ? A MON captain with 20k hours and 10 years in the left hand seat has to find his place behind an existing EZY FO for no other reason than the EZY pilot has been in EZY longer. Get real. EZY clearly think they do need DEC and that is that.
As I have said before and acknowledged by John_Smith…In any normal industry, people made redundant/ forcibly demoted are at liberty to find another job at the same level and make a sideways move. Unfortunately, this ridiculous industry is far from normal.
What is so special about aviation ? A MON captain with 20k hours and 10 years in the left hand seat has to find his place behind an existing EZY FO for no other reason than the EZY pilot has been in EZY longer. Get real. EZY clearly think they do need DEC and that is that.
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Four years ago easy put 4 bases under 90 day consultation and sent out redundancy notices to pilots based at EMA.
Although most pilots were 're deployed' I don't think any of those very experienced guys & gals expected to be anywhere but at the bottom of a seniority list, if that should have been the outcome elsewhere.
Having no seniority list has big advantages but....it doesn't cut both ways when the chips are down.
Although most pilots were 're deployed' I don't think any of those very experienced guys & gals expected to be anywhere but at the bottom of a seniority list, if that should have been the outcome elsewhere.
Having no seniority list has big advantages but....it doesn't cut both ways when the chips are down.
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John Smith. Funny old thing, prior to Monarch getting in the Poo, a few months ago DEC's had been talked about. So what next is often not as thought. Personally I think the seniority system is now out dated and a detriment to the industry. In the 60's within the independents you spent about 11 yrs as an f/o the got made up to captain. & stayed that way moving companies to acquire better T's & C's. Allowed companies to recruit the best available.
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The company can claim that there aren't enough 'command-ready' FO's to fill up their courses. They can convince Balpa of this too and to some extent it's true.
The reality is that there are a large amount of FO's who have the hours, meet the requirements, are perfectly capable but have not been scheduled their 'Assessment flights' for quite a while.
I'm one of them, and know personally many more.
If the company had been better organised, they could have rostered the 'assessment flights' over the last year and we'd be looking at a command this upcoming season instead of it being given to guys from Monarch.
However it's true, technically we're not 'command-ready' - we're stuck treading water until they schedule these flights and we can progress through the process.
The reality is that there are a large amount of FO's who have the hours, meet the requirements, are perfectly capable but have not been scheduled their 'Assessment flights' for quite a while.
I'm one of them, and know personally many more.
If the company had been better organised, they could have rostered the 'assessment flights' over the last year and we'd be looking at a command this upcoming season instead of it being given to guys from Monarch.
However it's true, technically we're not 'command-ready' - we're stuck treading water until they schedule these flights and we can progress through the process.
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Jaxo....quite happy to "get real" as you put it. Would Monarch get real if the shoe was on the other foot?
The fact is there is more than enough capable FO's at Easy who are capable of taking the commands. The company claims they don't have the capacity to train them, so DEC are the answer!
The fact is there is more than enough capable FO's at Easy who are capable of taking the commands. The company claims they don't have the capacity to train them, so DEC are the answer!
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...A situation brought about due to a massive gap in experience levels (EZs life long love affair with CTC cadets). This is a natural and significant truing up exercise and if any former CTC cadets are affected by it, well that's just plain ironic.