Jet2 Autumn 2014
Gender Faculty Specialist
Gorter, you can, of course, supply us with the data you gathered from everyone else...can't you?
I'm interested to know how you claim to be able to tell me what I'm going to want to do in the future!
head.
I'm interested to know how you claim to be able to tell me what I'm going to want to do in the future!
head.
Join Date: Apr 2015
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Gorter doesn't need to, as you know yourself most of the first officers are openly discussing their plans to leave the company in the flight deck. Maybe I do encourage them a bit by talking about my own plans to pack up and move the family to the desert, but apart from a few new joiners all the experienced fo's I've flown with have applications in elsewhere.
Even if half the negative views in this topic would be true, they should at least rease a few eyebrows and make potential new joiners think twice.
The people defending the company in this topic are generally not the line pilots but some trainers and managers.
Everybody has to do what he/she thinks is best for him/her. But don't say you haven't been warned!
Even if half the negative views in this topic would be true, they should at least rease a few eyebrows and make potential new joiners think twice.
The people defending the company in this topic are generally not the line pilots but some trainers and managers.
Everybody has to do what he/she thinks is best for him/her. But don't say you haven't been warned!
Last edited by Jet2_320; 8th Sep 2015 at 09:58.
Gender Faculty Specialist
Not everyone then, which was the claim?! Gorter certainly does need to prove his assertions as he claims to speak for everyone else which includes me. Otherwise it is just unsubstantiated BS.
Of course, you should heed your own warning if and when you end up in the desert.
Of course, you should heed your own warning if and when you end up in the desert.
Join Date: Apr 2015
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Cheers for the warning, I fully appreciate what you are saying. the decision isn't easy but with the continuous stream of roster disruption from April till November we decided it hopefully will improve the quality of our family life. I still have one option with another UK airline which hopefully materialises but if not the desert it is.
It was a great company when I joined long time ago but in the last 3 to 4years has transformed itself (below industry pay, pension, benefits, maximum roster disruption and way to many groundings for my liking). It's a shame since it was such a great place to work and has all the potential to become one if only....
It was a great company when I joined long time ago but in the last 3 to 4years has transformed itself (below industry pay, pension, benefits, maximum roster disruption and way to many groundings for my liking). It's a shame since it was such a great place to work and has all the potential to become one if only....
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Jet2
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It was a great company when I joined long time ago but in the last 3 to 4years has transformed itself (below industry pay, pension, benefits, maximum roster disruption and way to many groundings for my liking). It's a shame since it was such a great place to work and has all the potential to become one if only....
The downward spiral started (IMO) with the removal of a previous DFO. At least he could fly (and jolly well by all accounts!) Gone but not forgotten.
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Re: Roster disruptions/general bullsh*t at Jet2.
I have followed this thread for a while as one of a number of experienced yet young expat FO's seriously considering a return home due to lifestyle. I have well and truly had my fill with my current lot and would be looking at either a UK based LH e.g BA, or waiting for VS, or a northern based SH e.g Jet2, especially seeing as a command is still light years away.
I am well aware of the tangibles e.g salary, block hours etc, but could somebody be kind enough to elaborate a little bit as to what sort of "crap" we are talking about with respect to things like roster disruption? Preferably with real life examples (as far as anonymity will allow). Weekends off during summer etc? Can they change your days off? "Crap" is after all, entirely relative and I would be grateful to see whether the "different shade of brown" experienced at J2 would adequately compensate for the significant pay cut.
PM's if preferred,
Best regards.
I have followed this thread for a while as one of a number of experienced yet young expat FO's seriously considering a return home due to lifestyle. I have well and truly had my fill with my current lot and would be looking at either a UK based LH e.g BA, or waiting for VS, or a northern based SH e.g Jet2, especially seeing as a command is still light years away.
I am well aware of the tangibles e.g salary, block hours etc, but could somebody be kind enough to elaborate a little bit as to what sort of "crap" we are talking about with respect to things like roster disruption? Preferably with real life examples (as far as anonymity will allow). Weekends off during summer etc? Can they change your days off? "Crap" is after all, entirely relative and I would be grateful to see whether the "different shade of brown" experienced at J2 would adequately compensate for the significant pay cut.
PM's if preferred,
Best regards.
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Roster disruption is as you know, subjective. Some people experience little disruption, and others seem to have it all the time.
The disruption that I think most are referring to are the constant changes to duties, anything from an early changing to a late to whole weeks changing after the rosters are published. The main gripe is contactable duties being rostered at inappropriate times (like, for example on day 6 of a run of duties - clearly, if it were intended as a contactable, it would be pointless, as you be into days off by the time they could use you.), but what will often happen, is a couple of days before said contactable, it'll change to a standby, and then often a flight.
The rostering in general is poor - regular earlies to lates (eg, 2-3 earlies followed by 2-3 lates with no days between) - similar story the other way round, usually with a stby in-between. Many fatigue reports on the issue, but no noticeable change in this pattern.
There is no roster agreement, only a policy - with plenty of clauses like "subject to operation needs", "when operationally possible" etc.
There are no bid systems, or preferences, so you can't bid for lates or earlies - roster swaps can be difficult to achieve.
Weekends off - well, it's pot luck. If you play the RDO game consistently, you'll get some weekends off, but if you forget or whatever, there are no guarantees of a weekend off. I think there used to be a policy of 1 weekend off per month, but my roster says differently. No weekends off this month.
Days off are fixed, they don't change these, but you can expect to be contacted on a day off to see if you'll work when they're short.
The winter however is blissfully quiet - although I'd expect to see some changes in the coming years - new aircraft, whilst a welcome development, undoubtedly mean a greater winter schedule (not a bad thing), and probably the loss of the "friendly flight times" slogan - deep nights ala Thompson I'd imagine.
Overall, it's not a bad place to work. There are pro's and con's. Think will need to improve though, as leaky buckets aren't sustainable - you can only shovel sand so quickly, eventually the bucket will empty.
The grass is rarely greener, more a different shade of brown.
The disruption that I think most are referring to are the constant changes to duties, anything from an early changing to a late to whole weeks changing after the rosters are published. The main gripe is contactable duties being rostered at inappropriate times (like, for example on day 6 of a run of duties - clearly, if it were intended as a contactable, it would be pointless, as you be into days off by the time they could use you.), but what will often happen, is a couple of days before said contactable, it'll change to a standby, and then often a flight.
The rostering in general is poor - regular earlies to lates (eg, 2-3 earlies followed by 2-3 lates with no days between) - similar story the other way round, usually with a stby in-between. Many fatigue reports on the issue, but no noticeable change in this pattern.
There is no roster agreement, only a policy - with plenty of clauses like "subject to operation needs", "when operationally possible" etc.
There are no bid systems, or preferences, so you can't bid for lates or earlies - roster swaps can be difficult to achieve.
Weekends off - well, it's pot luck. If you play the RDO game consistently, you'll get some weekends off, but if you forget or whatever, there are no guarantees of a weekend off. I think there used to be a policy of 1 weekend off per month, but my roster says differently. No weekends off this month.
Days off are fixed, they don't change these, but you can expect to be contacted on a day off to see if you'll work when they're short.
The winter however is blissfully quiet - although I'd expect to see some changes in the coming years - new aircraft, whilst a welcome development, undoubtedly mean a greater winter schedule (not a bad thing), and probably the loss of the "friendly flight times" slogan - deep nights ala Thompson I'd imagine.
Overall, it's not a bad place to work. There are pro's and con's. Think will need to improve though, as leaky buckets aren't sustainable - you can only shovel sand so quickly, eventually the bucket will empty.
The grass is rarely greener, more a different shade of brown.
Gender Faculty Specialist
Ref. contactables. That is how they're supposed to be used! They should not be used to enable a late to early change, multiple fatigue reports seems to have stopped this practice though but if I get one a quick call to Flight Safety gets it changed.
On that point lates to earlies and vice versa seem to be falling out of favour and I seem to be getting blocks of earlies or lates, usually 3 or 4, then 2 or 3 days off. I haven't had an early to late or late to early mid week change since the beginning of summer.
Of course, I'm at the best base where they treat us better.
Contacted on days off - well don't answer the 'phone if you don't want to be contacted! They don't even bother me know as they know I won't answer.
On that point lates to earlies and vice versa seem to be falling out of favour and I seem to be getting blocks of earlies or lates, usually 3 or 4, then 2 or 3 days off. I haven't had an early to late or late to early mid week change since the beginning of summer.
Of course, I'm at the best base where they treat us better.
Contacted on days off - well don't answer the 'phone if you don't want to be contacted! They don't even bother me know as they know I won't answer.
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@Chesty Morgan
No - a contactable is a period where the company can call you, to advise of a duty starting no earlier than 10 hours from the start of the contactable period. It is not another word for a stby. I could quite reasonably have planned to be out of the country on a contactable. A rostered contactable should not change to a stby or a flight 2 days prior.
You've obviously had a great roster this summer then. Thus highlighting the inconsistencies. May - July, the vast majority of weeks for me was 5-6 days, with 2 or 3 day off in-between, hitting 100 hrs in 28 days.
I don't answer my phone on a day off, nor reply to the text messages - but it's still an interruption on a day off....
Cheers,
No - a contactable is a period where the company can call you, to advise of a duty starting no earlier than 10 hours from the start of the contactable period. It is not another word for a stby. I could quite reasonably have planned to be out of the country on a contactable. A rostered contactable should not change to a stby or a flight 2 days prior.
You've obviously had a great roster this summer then. Thus highlighting the inconsistencies. May - July, the vast majority of weeks for me was 5-6 days, with 2 or 3 day off in-between, hitting 100 hrs in 28 days.
I don't answer my phone on a day off, nor reply to the text messages - but it's still an interruption on a day off....
Cheers,
Gender Faculty Specialist
No duty should be changed in an ideal world but a Contactable is just a duty subject to change like any other.
No, they can't call you off a contactable like a standby but they are well within their rights to change it ahead of the actual duty providing minimum rest is complied with.
https://www.chirp.co.uk/upload/docs/...B%20114%20.pdf
Page 6.
Before you shoot me down I like it as much as you, but thems the rules.
No, they can't call you off a contactable like a standby but they are well within their rights to change it ahead of the actual duty providing minimum rest is complied with.
https://www.chirp.co.uk/upload/docs/...B%20114%20.pdf
Page 6.
Before you shoot me down I like it as much as you, but thems the rules.
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Just before i left, about 9 years ago, we had a rare sunny summers afternoon, and a group of about 10 pilots met up for a beer in the local pub (the ship iirc).
mid session, someones phone rang. You guessed it, screwing " help me obi wan, you are our only hope". " sorry, i'm in the pub, can't help" was the reply.
10 seconds later, another phone rang. Yep, same "help me" call. Same reply.
10 seconds later, yup, same again.
10 seconds later, same call to another chap, same response, but added" don't bother calling Pew, Pew, Barleymagroo, Cuthbert, Dibble, or Grubb, coz they are all in the pub too!"
Sounds like not much has changed.
mid session, someones phone rang. You guessed it, screwing " help me obi wan, you are our only hope". " sorry, i'm in the pub, can't help" was the reply.
10 seconds later, another phone rang. Yep, same "help me" call. Same reply.
10 seconds later, yup, same again.
10 seconds later, same call to another chap, same response, but added" don't bother calling Pew, Pew, Barleymagroo, Cuthbert, Dibble, or Grubb, coz they are all in the pub too!"
Sounds like not much has changed.
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Well ok, then. Maybe the question is not so much whether contactable is a legal, or even reasonable rostering tool, but will people continue to put up with it, if there are other options.
Ditto, earlies to lates (or even earlies to lates to earlies to lates...).
Ditto, earlies to lates (or even earlies to lates to earlies to lates...).
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Wow
Well after a good couple of hours reading this thread about the airline I hope to one day fly for, I'm not much wiser on whether they are a good company or not to work for. It appears there are certainly some bitter ex employees on here that can't seem to let the past be the past, but also some current employees that seem to be level headed and say how it is.
For a student pilot like me, self funding my way through my training, it is quite disheartening to hear about the state of the industry from the people at the coal face......but it's always been my dream to fly the in the airlines, so onwards and upwards
For a student pilot like me, self funding my way through my training, it is quite disheartening to hear about the state of the industry from the people at the coal face......but it's always been my dream to fly the in the airlines, so onwards and upwards
Join Date: Aug 2014
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Good luck to you Mattyfab. Don't be too harsh about those that have been there and had the stew. After you have had 3 airlines go bust on you and had to spend a few years getting sand in your privates to return earning less than you were in your very first flying role you will start to develop the art of cynicism. Most of us joined because it was our dream, but dreams will not pay your mortgage (if you can even get one with a huge training loan over your head), feed or pay for nursery for your children when you are old enough. And the reason it is such a mess is because so many companies are under such pressure (either necessity or shareholder) to cut costs that they cannot resist the temptation to take advantage of the flood of kids happy to buy their way onto the flight deck thereby forcing down the terms and conditions for all.
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Having joined Jet2 in the LHS, I've been happy with my experience so far. I know saying that will ruffle a few feathers but there you go. Yes, there are a few quirky ways of doing things, the roster pattern isn't fixed and the lack of weekends off seems universal to most but that's largely it. Note to self - make better use of the RDO system! On a positive, I now live under 30 minutes away from my base, I'm enjoying the flying and I haven't seen too much roster disruption at all (seems base dependent so I'm not arguing that it doesnt occur). I've had a pretty positive experience with the leave system, which was non existent in my last company. In comparison, there are some later starts and even later finishes and the threat of deep into the night flying like TOM or TCX may loom with the new aircraft arriving; as does wet and damp leasing programs. I have no experience with this type of flying however the new aircraft order is encouraging and I feel happy about the commercial approach that the company has adopted. There'll be some new challenges but ordering new metal is what was required and it will ultimately move the business forward.
Winter is around the corner and, at present, this delivers a quiet period with very little flying. Having flown 800-900 hours a year through all weathers, winter ops etc that's just fine by me! And yes, I'm on 100% permanent before anyone asks.
Everywhere has its problems and in certain circumstances this may depend upon where you live, where you are based and what seat you fly from. So far, I've been pretty happy with Jet2. Sorry to go against the grain here however pprune does a great job in harbouring negativity across the board. I've equally been as guilty in the past.
Winter is around the corner and, at present, this delivers a quiet period with very little flying. Having flown 800-900 hours a year through all weathers, winter ops etc that's just fine by me! And yes, I'm on 100% permanent before anyone asks.
Everywhere has its problems and in certain circumstances this may depend upon where you live, where you are based and what seat you fly from. So far, I've been pretty happy with Jet2. Sorry to go against the grain here however pprune does a great job in harbouring negativity across the board. I've equally been as guilty in the past.
Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 11th Sep 2015 at 10:37.
