Jet2 Autumn 2014
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Are FR not offering 100% FR Contracts at the base of choice for DEC's? Are EZY not offering the same at LGW?
Ryanair won't commit to a base on the contract unless ex-FR and also still rated. For non-rated they want you to pay the rating.
For EZY, which would probably be the short-haul airline of choice for many - they want you to pay for the rating AND spend 5 years frozen at LGW followed by joining a long, long transfer list for the regional bases. That won't suit guys like me who have no interest in anywhere south of the Midlands.
Without wanting to sound pretentious (please understand I'm really not) it's nice that at least one airline out there is prepared to look for experienced crews AND pay for the rating. This is the same airline that runs the Pilot Apprenticeship scheme that helps out those 18 year old kids who don't come from the ranks of the financially fortunate (I was there once 20 years ago). It's all market-driven of course, but at the moment it's a nice touch.
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I think you'll find the pilot apprentice scheme is for those already with a CPL/IR, many of whom have spent £100k+ at Oxford, so not exactly a scheme for poor 18 year olds! It's not a bad scheme overall though - in exchange for 18 months in the office or crew room, and 18 months on the line on the paltry second officers salary, they get the type rating paid for and a permanent UK job.
I agree though that it's encouraging that they are recruiting NTR crews and are prepared to cover the type rating. They've clearly realised there's no other way to recruit the experienced crews they need given their expansion plans and difficulty retaining the crews they already have!
I agree though that it's encouraging that they are recruiting NTR crews and are prepared to cover the type rating. They've clearly realised there's no other way to recruit the experienced crews they need given their expansion plans and difficulty retaining the crews they already have!
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Mr Good Cat - really?! An open ended 50% salary, no duty pay during simulator training, a 'Training Agreement' for the type-rating...yep, 'paying for it' indeed! Wake up man! Read your one-sided contract VERY carefully!
Petworth is spot on, in view of present retention and no interest from type-rated, NTR pilots is all they can attract, end of!
Petworth is spot on, in view of present retention and no interest from type-rated, NTR pilots is all they can attract, end of!
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It's encouraging that Jet2 are funding the TR upfront as opposed to asking you to raid your savings, true. It's also good for new guys / girls fresh out of school. The Pilot Apprentice Scheme is great for those looking for a leg up into a first flying job. They get decent exposure to various areas of the business with many ending up on a TR course sooner than expected. I've had the pleasure of meeting a number of them that have come through my base, some of which have recently appeared on in the crewroom as operating crew and I couldn't be happier for them. Regardless of the company's motives for using such a scheme, it's good for those that get onto it, especially at a time when bums on seats are urgently required!
As for experienced NTR joiners, from what I've seen and experienced, it's a pleasant place to work day to day, especially if you live not too far from your base. The company has some very serious soul searching to do if it hopes to attract and retain people IMHO but thats another matter and something that has already been discussed at length on this thread. All I can recommend is join with your eyes wide open and don't fall for the sales pitch. But then that can be said of many jobs I suppose.
As for experienced NTR joiners, from what I've seen and experienced, it's a pleasant place to work day to day, especially if you live not too far from your base. The company has some very serious soul searching to do if it hopes to attract and retain people IMHO but thats another matter and something that has already been discussed at length on this thread. All I can recommend is join with your eyes wide open and don't fall for the sales pitch. But then that can be said of many jobs I suppose.
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Mr Good Cat - really?! An open ended 50% salary, no duty pay during simulator training, a 'Training Agreement' for the type-rating...yep, 'paying for it' indeed! Wake up man! Read your one-sided contract VERY carefully!
Petworth is spot on, in view of present retention and no interest from type-rated, NTR pilots is all they can attract, end of!
Petworth is spot on, in view of present retention and no interest from type-rated, NTR pilots is all they can attract, end of!
(Sorry, private joke)
Gender Faculty Specialist
Mr Good Cat - really?! An open ended 50% salary, no duty pay during simulator training, a 'Training Agreement' for the type-rating...yep, 'paying for it' indeed! Wake up man! Read your one-sided contract VERY carefully!
Petworth is spot on, in view of present retention and no interest from type-rated, NTR pilots is all they can attract, end of!
Petworth is spot on, in view of present retention and no interest from type-rated, NTR pilots is all they can attract, end of!
Anyone would think you've got an agenda...
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Anytime at all on 50% salary is a big issue for many prospective joiners. Lets be honest, it's insult to make TR sign a Training Agreement, put them on half salary "to cover training costs" and not pay duty pay during training either. The pilot jobs market was weak enough to allow such things up until recently but going forward it needs to stop if Jet2 hope to attract any TR crew. For the sake of those sticking around, I hope the company realises this pronto! With BA, EZY, FR, TOM et al all looking for a significant number of pilots over the next few years, Jet2 HAS to up its game if it hopes to survive.
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Is anything being done to retain people? Retain surely cheaper than Replace?
Can they physically train all of these replacement crew in a sensible time span? The throughput of their sim centre and the number of line sectors available must be causing them a headache?
Can they physically train all of these replacement crew in a sensible time span? The throughput of their sim centre and the number of line sectors available must be causing them a headache?
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2 Whites, I agree but then it's up to each individual to accept or decline it.
To BS about it being open ended when it isn't just indictates lack of knowledge or an agenda. One makes you look stupid the other petty and childish. There's a lot of that on this thread.
To BS about it being open ended when it isn't just indictates lack of knowledge or an agenda. One makes you look stupid the other petty and childish. There's a lot of that on this thread.
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Chesty
You're quite right, we're all grown ups and no one held a gun to our heads. However, when I joined there was ZERO mention of any bond until I got the call offering me the job. By which point I had put a reasonable amount of time and effort into the process. It had been made very clear prior that the half pay was to cover the cost of groundschool. Not great but I knew about it before I applied so while I strongly disagreed with it, no one else to blame on that one. When I questioned the bond it was hastily brushed over as a mere £4500 to cover groundschool....Jet2 are trying to be clever stinging people twice for a significant amount of cash with very little input for TR joiners. Hence the lack of TR people knocking at the door now things are picking up. Everyone else has woken up to the prospect of the lack of experienced people on the market but J2 insists on carrying on wiith these insulting practices. Naive in the extreme. 70% contracts, half pay, no duty pay, unreasonable training bonds for TR joiners. below market rate salaries, zero perks / benefits (unless you're Leeds based where you can get a ticket on then'Flying Tiger' bus for a whopping discounted fare of £4.80 instead of £6, woopeee!!!)....a few may be tempted but it's hardly the way to instil loyalty and longevity into a work force.
Look how CC are treated, £700 training costs for a summer only contract! My point is that responsible employer invests in its employees and makes them want to stay. It doesn't hold a gun to their head with the above mentioned BS to try and force them to stay
You're quite right, we're all grown ups and no one held a gun to our heads. However, when I joined there was ZERO mention of any bond until I got the call offering me the job. By which point I had put a reasonable amount of time and effort into the process. It had been made very clear prior that the half pay was to cover the cost of groundschool. Not great but I knew about it before I applied so while I strongly disagreed with it, no one else to blame on that one. When I questioned the bond it was hastily brushed over as a mere £4500 to cover groundschool....Jet2 are trying to be clever stinging people twice for a significant amount of cash with very little input for TR joiners. Hence the lack of TR people knocking at the door now things are picking up. Everyone else has woken up to the prospect of the lack of experienced people on the market but J2 insists on carrying on wiith these insulting practices. Naive in the extreme. 70% contracts, half pay, no duty pay, unreasonable training bonds for TR joiners. below market rate salaries, zero perks / benefits (unless you're Leeds based where you can get a ticket on then'Flying Tiger' bus for a whopping discounted fare of £4.80 instead of £6, woopeee!!!)....a few may be tempted but it's hardly the way to instil loyalty and longevity into a work force.
Look how CC are treated, £700 training costs for a summer only contract! My point is that responsible employer invests in its employees and makes them want to stay. It doesn't hold a gun to their head with the above mentioned BS to try and force them to stay
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Well said 2W2R - the big picture of J2!
And just to clarify, when I joined J2, my 100% TR Contract stated "50% salary until completion of my line check". How long it took them to roster that line check was 'open ended', in fact, I did the type rating quicker than it took me to get on line at J2!
And just to clarify, when I joined J2, my 100% TR Contract stated "50% salary until completion of my line check". How long it took them to roster that line check was 'open ended', in fact, I did the type rating quicker than it took me to get on line at J2!
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Well said 2W2R - the big picture of J2!
And just to clarify, when I joined J2, my 100% TR Contract stated "50% salary until completion of my line check". How long it took them to roster that line check was 'open ended', in fact, I did the type rating quicker than it took me to get on line at J2!
And just to clarify, when I joined J2, my 100% TR Contract stated "50% salary until completion of my line check". How long it took them to roster that line check was 'open ended', in fact, I did the type rating quicker than it took me to get on line at J2!
Fortunately it seems to have changed for the guys joining now on non-type-rated 100% contracts.
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I believe they have now capped the 50% salary to a set number of weeks, or FLC - whichever is earlier. Can't remember off the top of my head how many weeks it is though.
It's still ridiculous but hey ho. The varying offers and differing contracts is still an issue, it seems to vary day by day, week by week. Be clear about what it is you want from the start, and there is every chance you'll get it.
It's still ridiculous but hey ho. The varying offers and differing contracts is still an issue, it seems to vary day by day, week by week. Be clear about what it is you want from the start, and there is every chance you'll get it.
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You have an agenda against Jet2, we get it. But at least try and be factual.
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Chesty Morgan and Blue Pilot why is it you always have to attack the people on here who don't share your view with regards to how great the company is?
People have different opinions about Jet2.com and based on the amount of pilots leaving (over 85 as far I'm aware) there are quite a few who don't share your overly optimistic views with regards to Jet2.com. With regards to the contract issue new pilots still got offered 70% contracts in the last intake as was also stated in "Tailwind" a few months ago.
Earlier in this topic somebody asked if something is done to retain the pilots/staff. To do this one has to admit first we have an issue with retention and there is a shortage of experienced pilots. 737 management has been heard saying "they don't give a sh*t how many leave because there are plenty out there" and a recent update from management stated only 3% more pilots left compared to last year.
People have different opinions about Jet2.com and based on the amount of pilots leaving (over 85 as far I'm aware) there are quite a few who don't share your overly optimistic views with regards to Jet2.com. With regards to the contract issue new pilots still got offered 70% contracts in the last intake as was also stated in "Tailwind" a few months ago.
Earlier in this topic somebody asked if something is done to retain the pilots/staff. To do this one has to admit first we have an issue with retention and there is a shortage of experienced pilots. 737 management has been heard saying "they don't give a sh*t how many leave because there are plenty out there" and a recent update from management stated only 3% more pilots left compared to last year.
Last edited by Jet2_320; 11th Aug 2015 at 12:18.
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I don't "always" "attack" anyone. I am refuting their knowledge.
I don't think the company is "great", in fact far from it. But you don't need to lie or exaggerate to try and prove a point. On that note the majority of new contracts were 100%, yes some 70% contracts were offered and accepted. That's a bit different to:
Isn't it?
I don't think the company is "great", in fact far from it. But you don't need to lie or exaggerate to try and prove a point. On that note the majority of new contracts were 100%, yes some 70% contracts were offered and accepted. That's a bit different to:
Originally Posted by Jet2_320
new pilots still got offered 70% contracts in the last intake as was also stated in "Tailwind" a few months ago.
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Jet2-320, this will be my only reply to you. Over the years in your many aliases (most of which have been banned) you have continued to slag off, spit bile and attack anyone in regard to Jet2. Your words and opinions in my view are worthless as you never have any balance or thought, just venom.
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Just my two cents as some folk are a little out the loop with regards to what the apprenticeship entails.
Its a maximum 12 month scheme resulting in a fully bonded (3 year) TR on 73 or 75. Within this 12 months, theres 3 months 'development' at The Mint and LFFH gaining experience of the company. This is to create a strong working relationship with folk that flight deck deal with every day and folk that they may deal with once every 5 years. Its about learning the business. After that, its out on a placement which is most likely in a crew room helping flight deck with their daily duties.
I'm an apprentice at J2, and although i have no other airline experience, i absolutely love it. I have no issues with the place at all and everyone i have met so far have been brand new. Something which was new to the scheme when i started was having a bash at operating as cabin crew. Some of you may laugh at this but the experience was fantastic. First hand experience of what happens on the other side of the door has a real eye opener and i have a huge amount of respect for cabin crew and the job they do. I'm 1/3 of the way through the 12 months, but rumour has it that type ratings could be coming our way over winter. On a previous course, two lads were rated after 4 months of the scheme. Operational requirements.
I'm incredibly lucky to be in a position to receive a fully paid for 737 or 757 TR as a first job. There can't be many opportunities like that in Europe or even the world.
A final side note, J2 prefer the modular route for their apprentices. I would say that less than 10% of apprentices went Integrated, and i don't know anyone on the scheme from oxford or CTC.
Best to you all,
Marcus,
Pilot Apprentice and Proud.
Its a maximum 12 month scheme resulting in a fully bonded (3 year) TR on 73 or 75. Within this 12 months, theres 3 months 'development' at The Mint and LFFH gaining experience of the company. This is to create a strong working relationship with folk that flight deck deal with every day and folk that they may deal with once every 5 years. Its about learning the business. After that, its out on a placement which is most likely in a crew room helping flight deck with their daily duties.
I'm an apprentice at J2, and although i have no other airline experience, i absolutely love it. I have no issues with the place at all and everyone i have met so far have been brand new. Something which was new to the scheme when i started was having a bash at operating as cabin crew. Some of you may laugh at this but the experience was fantastic. First hand experience of what happens on the other side of the door has a real eye opener and i have a huge amount of respect for cabin crew and the job they do. I'm 1/3 of the way through the 12 months, but rumour has it that type ratings could be coming our way over winter. On a previous course, two lads were rated after 4 months of the scheme. Operational requirements.
I'm incredibly lucky to be in a position to receive a fully paid for 737 or 757 TR as a first job. There can't be many opportunities like that in Europe or even the world.
A final side note, J2 prefer the modular route for their apprentices. I would say that less than 10% of apprentices went Integrated, and i don't know anyone on the scheme from oxford or CTC.
Best to you all,
Marcus,
Pilot Apprentice and Proud.
Last edited by marcus1290; 12th Aug 2015 at 09:08.