Thomson recruitment.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: earth
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
H44,
Would the decision be easier if it wasn't a part time contract, perhaps offer to accept based on this being a full time contract and the £7k charge being a bond instead of a deduction from wages ?
As for 15 years to command perhaps coming to an end, yes 65 bubble is coming to an end we are currently in the process of merging/aligning with European airlines within the group, but with about 350 FO's in Thomson alone at 20-30 commands a year it is still along time. Also I am yet to see a merger that reduced to the time to command or didn't create a pilot surpus and force negotiations for the better.
Other departments within the business have just been given notice of redundancies and we have been asked to remember this in our internal communications and be sensitive. Pilots and cabin crew are not subject to this at present as far as I'm aware. Doesn't mean we could be tomorrow though.
Sounds like you're giving up a lot for relatively little gain ?
Would the decision be easier if it wasn't a part time contract, perhaps offer to accept based on this being a full time contract and the £7k charge being a bond instead of a deduction from wages ?
As for 15 years to command perhaps coming to an end, yes 65 bubble is coming to an end we are currently in the process of merging/aligning with European airlines within the group, but with about 350 FO's in Thomson alone at 20-30 commands a year it is still along time. Also I am yet to see a merger that reduced to the time to command or didn't create a pilot surpus and force negotiations for the better.
Other departments within the business have just been given notice of redundancies and we have been asked to remember this in our internal communications and be sensitive. Pilots and cabin crew are not subject to this at present as far as I'm aware. Doesn't mean we could be tomorrow though.
Sounds like you're giving up a lot for relatively little gain ?
PPRuNe Secret Agent!
Moderator
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Other departments within the business have just been given notice of redundancies
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pilots and cabin crew are not subject to this at present as far as I'm aware.
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: 35000ft
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Who knows, but if it was my airline and I was struggling to crew flights I wouldn't show the glint of my sythe until summer was over, the organisational changes email came last week, long after recruitment had ben organised. I don't for a minute envisage flight operations being exempt from the notice indefinately that other departments have been put on, for me it is a possible threat out there which should be added to the thinking pot.
I'd hate for someone to give up a job that puts food on the table and then be subject to a consultation period or never get a foot in the door having been offered a job.. Pilots and cabin crew are a large cost base, it would make no sense for us to be exempt from financial saving aspirations.
Alliances with TUI Nordic sees them full time crewed for winter and us crewed for summer with opposite peak periods, I envisage North Sea crossings and more productivity for the Scandis in the summer in the UK operation and us in scandinavia peak season (winter).
If it was my trainset I would be saying why incur more cost in more employees when we can use each other's crews (subject to union agreement).
This is the line from the comms 24th September "Flight crew and Cabin crew are unaffected by the proposed changes announced today."
It's the "Today" bit.......
Yes it does seem odd to recruit if we are over established, but is that based on a Thomson airways pilots or the "Reshaping Thomson Airways" comms, perhaps there is now a new vantage point, a lot can happen in 3 months between giving notice and becoming employed at new employers airline.
I'd hate for someone to give up a job that puts food on the table and then be subject to a consultation period or never get a foot in the door having been offered a job.. Pilots and cabin crew are a large cost base, it would make no sense for us to be exempt from financial saving aspirations.
Alliances with TUI Nordic sees them full time crewed for winter and us crewed for summer with opposite peak periods, I envisage North Sea crossings and more productivity for the Scandis in the summer in the UK operation and us in scandinavia peak season (winter).
If it was my trainset I would be saying why incur more cost in more employees when we can use each other's crews (subject to union agreement).
This is the line from the comms 24th September "Flight crew and Cabin crew are unaffected by the proposed changes announced today."
It's the "Today" bit.......
Yes it does seem odd to recruit if we are over established, but is that based on a Thomson airways pilots or the "Reshaping Thomson Airways" comms, perhaps there is now a new vantage point, a lot can happen in 3 months between giving notice and becoming employed at new employers airline.
Last edited by youthinkso; 6th Oct 2015 at 22:18.
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: 35000ft
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
H44 was going to fwd you said comms so you could read for yourself in a PM but does not look like your account is set to receive PM's, let me know if you change account settings and will send through.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Derby
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
H44
I stand to be corrected but there is no type freeze when changing fleets. If a vacancy exists on a particular fleet or at a particular base and no one else senior to you wants it, you should get it. This is overseen by the union.
Youthinkso
A few months ago we were looking at the creation of One Aviation. The group has five airlines each with its own operations departments. This makes no sense from a cost point of view. People were concerned work would go to those airlines with the lowest cost base (Jetairfly, Arkefly). However, this has not happened and Thomson has been loosely linked to TUI Nordic. However, Thomson has already been working with TUI Nordic for some years and it is quite a good fit.
Savings will be made by combining departments where possible and so some operations staff will sadly lose their jobs. From a flying point of view we will still have the same number of aircraft to fly. Personally, I would hope that from a combination of Thomson, TUI Nordic and Sunwing the summer/winter balance will almost disappear and this will lead to the end of PPY contracts.
However, as previous posters have said, there is always a risk in changing jobs. External events can never be predicted and can have much bigger effects than internal company policy.
Good luck.
I stand to be corrected but there is no type freeze when changing fleets. If a vacancy exists on a particular fleet or at a particular base and no one else senior to you wants it, you should get it. This is overseen by the union.
Youthinkso
A few months ago we were looking at the creation of One Aviation. The group has five airlines each with its own operations departments. This makes no sense from a cost point of view. People were concerned work would go to those airlines with the lowest cost base (Jetairfly, Arkefly). However, this has not happened and Thomson has been loosely linked to TUI Nordic. However, Thomson has already been working with TUI Nordic for some years and it is quite a good fit.
Savings will be made by combining departments where possible and so some operations staff will sadly lose their jobs. From a flying point of view we will still have the same number of aircraft to fly. Personally, I would hope that from a combination of Thomson, TUI Nordic and Sunwing the summer/winter balance will almost disappear and this will lead to the end of PPY contracts.
However, as previous posters have said, there is always a risk in changing jobs. External events can never be predicted and can have much bigger effects than internal company policy.
Good luck.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: earth
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the rules say new pilots are frozen on type for first few years aren't they ? I believe there have been exceptions.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: earth
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A few months ago we were looking at the creation of One Aviation. The group has five airlines each with its own operations departments. This makes no sense from a cost point of view. People were concerned work would go to those airlines with the lowest cost base (Jetairfly, Arkefly). However, this has not happened and Thomson has been loosely linked to TUI Nordic. However, Thomson has already been working with TUI Nordic for some years and it is quite a good fit.
Savings will be made by combining departments where possible and so some operations staff will sadly lose their jobs. From a flying point of view we will still have the same number of aircraft to fly. Personally, I would hope that from a combination of Thomson, TUI Nordic and Sunwing the summer/winter balance will almost disappear and this will lead to the end of PPY contracts.
However, as previous posters have said, there is always a risk in changing jobs. External events can never be predicted and can have much bigger effects than internal company policy.
Good luck.
Savings will be made by combining departments where possible and so some operations staff will sadly lose their jobs. From a flying point of view we will still have the same number of aircraft to fly. Personally, I would hope that from a combination of Thomson, TUI Nordic and Sunwing the summer/winter balance will almost disappear and this will lead to the end of PPY contracts.
However, as previous posters have said, there is always a risk in changing jobs. External events can never be predicted and can have much bigger effects than internal company policy.
Good luck.
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: uk
Posts: 549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
USUAL HEALTH WARNING APPLIES
H44
The pension discussion is still ongoing. The safe assumption, at least from a do I /don't I perspective is that the company will get their way. Cue wailing and gnashing of teeth from the usual anti BALPA crowd here, the same ones that don't join or perhaps do join but only to vote against a plan to save a few more from redundancy........and then leave once the vote's done
Anyway. Sorry I can't be more help.
IMHO there is also a bit of misunderstanding around recent developments. We were always going to end up in some kind of Trans National Agreement and personally I'm pleased it's with the Nordics rather than anyone else. There's nothing nasty in that statement, it's just a better fit for us both for the reverse cyclic peak already mentioned above. There is also far more common ground in the two operation types than with any other group airline ranging from aircraft types and destinations through to robustness of Industrisl agreements and allowances etc. Bluntly, if we are going to go down the TNA road, and we are, make no mistake then I'm considerably more comfortable if it's this way.
The job losses are most likely through our old mate "synergies". It is very likely that sizeable chunks of the back office functions will be rolled into one rather than five set ups. Fuel, hotels, duty free products, photocopier paper, loo roll, you name it will all be sourced centrally with the associated "economies of scale". A lot of people, many of them good will go.
It would be impolite to comment on who might stay but in the past we've had some extraordinary choices for some quite serious jobs and lived to regret it
And if you really want my view, the overall package and prospects woukd have me looking at TOM in the same light as VS and BA (it's not all roses there either I'm reliably informed). The rest I'd leave to join these 3 if I had 15+ to push.
The pension discussion is still ongoing. The safe assumption, at least from a do I /don't I perspective is that the company will get their way. Cue wailing and gnashing of teeth from the usual anti BALPA crowd here, the same ones that don't join or perhaps do join but only to vote against a plan to save a few more from redundancy........and then leave once the vote's done
Anyway. Sorry I can't be more help.
IMHO there is also a bit of misunderstanding around recent developments. We were always going to end up in some kind of Trans National Agreement and personally I'm pleased it's with the Nordics rather than anyone else. There's nothing nasty in that statement, it's just a better fit for us both for the reverse cyclic peak already mentioned above. There is also far more common ground in the two operation types than with any other group airline ranging from aircraft types and destinations through to robustness of Industrisl agreements and allowances etc. Bluntly, if we are going to go down the TNA road, and we are, make no mistake then I'm considerably more comfortable if it's this way.
The job losses are most likely through our old mate "synergies". It is very likely that sizeable chunks of the back office functions will be rolled into one rather than five set ups. Fuel, hotels, duty free products, photocopier paper, loo roll, you name it will all be sourced centrally with the associated "economies of scale". A lot of people, many of them good will go.
It would be impolite to comment on who might stay but in the past we've had some extraordinary choices for some quite serious jobs and lived to regret it
And if you really want my view, the overall package and prospects woukd have me looking at TOM in the same light as VS and BA (it's not all roses there either I'm reliably informed). The rest I'd leave to join these 3 if I had 15+ to push.
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: My house
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the info Yeoman. Given that Thomson and TUI Nordic have a reverse cyclic peak, it would seem inevitable then that there would be a more even distribution of work over the year, but would unfortunately also suggest that there will be a pilot surplus resulting in the inevitable "synergies".
Like you say it's probably in the top 3 airlines in the UK, but only if you can stay in long enough to feel safe from redundancy. If it wasn't for the elephant in the room of more cost cutting I would be jumping at the chance to join, but given what happened in 2010 and this management's track record, I'm starting to err away from accepting the offer.
Like you say it's probably in the top 3 airlines in the UK, but only if you can stay in long enough to feel safe from redundancy. If it wasn't for the elephant in the room of more cost cutting I would be jumping at the chance to join, but given what happened in 2010 and this management's track record, I'm starting to err away from accepting the offer.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: earth
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do really think the starting terms
for cadets and new SO/FO is really as good as BA & VS as in
TOM Forces part time for 5 years & charges £7000 to new pilots even if eyes already and cadets earn £1200 a month ?
I think this puts our terms for new pilots at the lower end to many airlines out there recruiting at the moment.
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: uk
Posts: 549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EPR Man
I don't think they would be because they would read the qualifying comment "from a do I / don't I (join TOM)". May I ask you re read my post and then quote from it in context?
I was answering H44's request for information a few pages back directed specifically to me and specifically asking if the issue had been resolved. It hasn't and therefore the ONLY SAFE [/B] assumption, if you are considering joining TOM as s/he is is that you will be joining on a reduced pension. That way any change to that assumption can only be a positive one and I don't end up facing (legitimate) charges of "but you said......"
But anyway, thanks for proving my point
I don't think they would be because they would read the qualifying comment "from a do I / don't I (join TOM)". May I ask you re read my post and then quote from it in context?
I was answering H44's request for information a few pages back directed specifically to me and specifically asking if the issue had been resolved. It hasn't and therefore the ONLY SAFE [/B] assumption, if you are considering joining TOM as s/he is is that you will be joining on a reduced pension. That way any change to that assumption can only be a positive one and I don't end up facing (legitimate) charges of "but you said......"
But anyway, thanks for proving my point
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: uk
Posts: 549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Xollob
As with EPR, please re read exactly what I wrote rather than selectively quote. I would put us up there in terms of "the overall package and prospects" if I had "15+ (years) to push".
I agree the starting deal is rubbish which is why I and my CC colleagues spend an inordinate amount of time trying to improve the lot if the guys towards the bottom of the seniority list. That effect washes out IMHO and makes TOM a career airline.
BTW, your screen name autocorrects to "colon" on iPads:
thought you might like to know
As with EPR, please re read exactly what I wrote rather than selectively quote. I would put us up there in terms of "the overall package and prospects" if I had "15+ (years) to push".
I agree the starting deal is rubbish which is why I and my CC colleagues spend an inordinate amount of time trying to improve the lot if the guys towards the bottom of the seniority list. That effect washes out IMHO and makes TOM a career airline.
BTW, your screen name autocorrects to "colon" on iPads:
thought you might like to know
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: earth
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeoman,
Thanks, I guess the washing out bit is true, just a shame our spin cycle takes 5 years (longer for cadets) and the initial washing tablet costs £7k
Regards xollob and colon they are relatively close to each other anyway And when looked at from a different angle that would be the first observation
, just have to hope one doesn't mistake one for the other at crucial points
Thanks, I guess the washing out bit is true, just a shame our spin cycle takes 5 years (longer for cadets) and the initial washing tablet costs £7k
Regards xollob and colon they are relatively close to each other anyway And when looked at from a different angle that would be the first observation
, just have to hope one doesn't mistake one for the other at crucial points
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: earth
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: uk
Posts: 549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Xollob, I've only just got that, very good! Still I'm a bit "backwards" me sen. Always need to be careful but I reckon you're safe; pretty hard to mistake inny for outy in that neck of the woods as it were. Except in HKT of course. Allegedly.
EPR
I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it either in the originsl post or with the clarification I gave subsequently? Maybe you could have a go as I'm pretty certain you see exactly what I was trying to say to H44 but have chosen to mix it in with another of the axes that need grinding.
By doing so you prove my point which is that in the eyes of some BALPA is the enemy within and no opportunity to have a dig should be missed. I answered an honest question honestly and I'm at a loss to understand why you're struggling with that, with the answer I've given and indeed, why you seem to think I would deem it appropriate to answer questions on the matter in one way here and in another way on the BALPA forum?
EPR
I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it either in the originsl post or with the clarification I gave subsequently? Maybe you could have a go as I'm pretty certain you see exactly what I was trying to say to H44 but have chosen to mix it in with another of the axes that need grinding.
By doing so you prove my point which is that in the eyes of some BALPA is the enemy within and no opportunity to have a dig should be missed. I answered an honest question honestly and I'm at a loss to understand why you're struggling with that, with the answer I've given and indeed, why you seem to think I would deem it appropriate to answer questions on the matter in one way here and in another way on the BALPA forum?