Thomson recruitment.

[oceanhawk]

If I were a turbo prop FO today looking for a career advancement on to big jets, then I would certainly apply to Thomson and go and see what they have to say. I think you have to look at it in the medium term, not the sort term and look at the deal with a broad brush. You can always say no to an offer if you feel you are being short changed. Moreover, if after 3 years say with 1000 hrs + on the Boeing you can always leave. The 738 is very useful time to have.
The 787 is only based at Manchester and Gatwick and that does nt look like it's going to change.

That's all folks!'

[youthinkso]

but if someone applied thinking they couldn't take the current offer and then it improved due to lack of interest then they are precluded from re-applying in 12 months.

Getting on a jet is good, but not if it means you cant pay your bills and push yourself into financial hardship.

As the chaps/chapesses have said, it would seem the industry is slowly waking up and having to change its' ways - a refreshing change, just that Thomson is a bit behind in the process.

At the current rate of desperation and airlines trying to get pilots it wont be long before the old days of a golden handshake cash payment to join a company re-emerge - maybe 5-10 years ? (I certainly hope so).

After all how are the directors of TUI to make their millions in bonuses if there is no one to fly their customers on holiday !

I full welcome the changes in the right direction for a change.

[hobnobanyone]

A training bond would massively help - suddenly this would become a massively attractive offer.

I'm still going to apply - things change, and I can't see myself doing split duties, minimum rest, lates to earlies in the course of 1 week and 4 sectors on a 5/2 pattern, all year round forever.

Thanks for your help and pointers guys, I'll leave this thread alone now in favour of another 4 sector late!

[seven3heaven]

They certainly won't get experienced rated guys with these terms. Every airline I know at the moment is struggling to get suitable guys in the seat. I wonder how long it will take for the penny to drop. The airlines have to seriously up their games. The ball is now firmly in the court of the pilot

[Chesty Morgan]

Originally Posted by 2 Whites 2 Reds

Where's BALPA in all this, anywhere????

Heathrow..

[Jwscud]

I would take any numbers off to BA with a big pinch of salt. Maybe 9 are working their notice, but how many are in the hold pool waiting for a start date to give their notice? How many still working through the selection? I know that's the case at my outfit (not Thomson.)

I would be interested in this if BA doesn't work out for me, except for the awful contracts on offer which means it makes better financial sense to stay where I am.

[hawker_hunter]

SO or FO

Am I right thinking that if I have over 1500hrs on a Q400 but no jet time I would be recruited as a SO?

[Aerofoil]

Hawker-Hunter

Thats correct according to the MOA. Until you have 1500hrs total with 500 on a jet of a similar size you will be a second officer and therefore on second officer pay. Also assuming you are not type rated you would have your salary reduced by £7,000 a year for 3 years to pay for the rating, so £21,000 for a 737 rating. As far as i can work out the salary would be around £30,500 when you deduct the £7,000 and consider the PPY50 contract. Someone please correct me if i have got this wrong though!

[Kakpipe Cosmonaut]

Originally Posted by hobnobanyone

I've done some sums this morning - and actually, it would take me 6 years to catch up on where I will be here.

This is all based on assumptions:

But in that time, I'll have taken nearly a £20k pay cut for year 1 (haha yeah... right, good start!), and by the time I get to year 6 (when it works out that the salaries catch up),

What about after year 7? Year 10? Year 20? My guess you're total career earnings would be a lot more at TOM.
Plus you could be earning c£10k a year in allowances (FDA and duty rig). With day off payments on top of that. (Flexis)
Sometimes you've got to take one step back to take two steps forwards.

[tunalic2]

Thanks for all the info folks.
I hit all the criteria regards 757, I even find the 2 weeks off over winter appealing, but it's a long .......migration to the left and having been there on previous type I miss it, especially the money.
As for the £7000 training thing, that's just taking the p***.

Good luck.

[max_drift]

NTR - GLA Base

Folks, a quick question for anyone in the know: how likely or not is it that a NTR applicant could expect a GLA base? Is it a popular choice?

Given the numbers involved it is the only circumstance that I could make things work coming in as a NTR SO (even short term commuting is financially unviable).

NB: I know you've got to be in it etc so I expect I'll apply regardless and see where it goes, but I'm not in a position on those figures to even pretend to be interested in any other base, much as I'd like to hang up my props.

Thanks.

[Aerofoil]

As far as i'm aware GLA is a 757 only base (2 aircraft) so you would have to be put onto the 757 to be in with a shot. As far as your chances of getting GLA after that, to be honest, i really don't know the answer to that. I do know that the guys on the 757 mostly seem to be determined to stay on the aircraft until they are moved off it due to fleet replacement etc (737 max from 2018). For the GLA guys this would mean a base move if they wish to change types which might not suit if Glasgow or nearby is home. One could argue that EDI is there as an option but then there is only 1 737 based there, again i have no idea what the chances are but it seems the larger bases have the greater movement due to the fleet sizes within those bases.

[hawker_hunter]

Same position as max_drift, moving base is financially not an option after the pay cut to SO.

Does anyone have any more info on basing? Such as where are new joiners most likely to go?

Also what % of duties are overnight shifts?

If I add about £8k for FDP etc (not inc overtime) onto the £30k for SO can anyone verify if that would be in the right ball park?

[Direct Bondi]

Why is Thomson charging type-rated pilots 7K for mandatory training as required by their AOC ?

EASA Part D, AOC Training Syllabi, Part 1, Description and Scope, states:

"It is common place for pilots to move within the industry with a type-rating, and maybe related operational experience. Operators must ensure that the Operators Conversion Course prepares such individuals for operations within their AOC"

[youthinkso]

Most of the latest questions have been answered in this history of this thread so take a little time to read it.

the question about an extra £8k in allowances over summer, maybe maximum BEFORE tax.

Bases - those existing pilots with a preference to be at another base get first choice, called standing bid, once those are satisfied any holes left is where new pilots go (well, that's what the agreements say, depends if management are ignoring them or not that week).

Why are Thomson charging for an OCC, great question, simple answer is to save money and they think they will still get the required numbers (we shall see).

That 7K and forced PPY50 for 5 years scheme started 3-4 years ago.

The first lot of recruited PPY50 guys were made permanent full time within 6 months (2013 joiners). The reason for that was because very few permenant pilots wanted to go to Canada and the company gets paid well to send pilots to Canada, so they wanted to extend the offer to PPY50 pilots, the union said if you want them working full time in Canada you make them all full time (all pilots senior to the most junior pilot going), so that is what happened, the first lot of PPY50 pilots became permanent pilots - it is after all what the agreements say. So they told all told their mates how great it was and that is the word on the street.

year 2-3 - their mates all apply for PPY50 and £7k deduction on the expectation of the same happening again, it didn't for some reason the union didn't insist that any pilot senior to the most junior going to Canada be made full time as per the agreement - don't ask me why not, I don't understand why not. As a result these guys have not been made permanent - BA opens recruitment guess who is leaving Thomson.... (

Year 3-4 - Present Day - it is known that the company will do all it can not to make PPY50 guys permanent and its clear that if you go to Canada you don't get made permanent now (??) well you do for that winter so the company can make its handsome money of PPY50 guys being out there, and new PPY pilots get 18.7% extra pay for doing 25% more work (think about that for a minute !!) [their contract is 81.3% pay for 75% work, they upgrade to 100% pay for 100% work] They also get the detachment extras.

Because of the above sequence of events coupled with reduced pension to new joiners now too, the number of rated applicants dropped significantly, I imagine they expect even less applicants this year hence they are forced to open up to NTR, who knows what's next if that is unsuccessful - maybe Thomson will be forced to consider its offering to new pilots to pay them what they're actually worth rather than robbing them.

The time to command is significant if doing the long term maths, you have an FO sat on the FO max paypoint £69k for 10 years, no further increments and then at eventual command they move to paypoint 1 of the captains pay scale (it is now time in rank that determines captains pay, not time in company as per the old pay scales). That is why a lot of the existing FO's in the company on the old payscales are reluctant to move, they will move across to captains pay scale based on time in company (old pay scales), so that 15 years to command figure, I cant see dropping any time soon.

if I had my time again now what would I do, well to be honest I would want to get on a jet, but not in a company that offers below competitive terms and certainly not one with 15 years sat on mediocre pay as an FO with a bunch of deductions.

I would be more inclined to join a company that has mediocre pay and a much shorter time to command (as it goes I don't think any current long serving FO's thought it would be that long but the merger of FCA and BY made it so) - who knows what one aviation is about to do (see previous posts for what that is), once you have that time in the left seat the world is your oyster and with the number of companies increasing their DEC options I think it is only a matter of a few years till the value you can print on those tickets increases significantly coupled with the retirement bulge across the industry.

All personal opinion of course, others will likely disagree.

Good luck

[directvector]

Hi all,
For info, I joined in 2014.
First year was PPY50 with 7k deduction, highest take home pay was £4170 in summer, lowest was £3053 in winter (that lowest month had one flexi, so real lowest could be more toward £2700ish)
Financial year average about £3600 a month.
Again, that's take home pay, in my bank account.
That's FO on the 737, PPY50, with the 7k removed before tax, and was topped up by a few flexis through the year.
Be warned, don't count on flexi, I never do, as it's Sod's law when you need the money, there's none going! With so many being planned to recruit, in my opinion flexi for FO's/SO's will be very limited next year.

I did, and still do put away a couple of hundred all summer to make sure I'm comfortable for winter going into hibernation!!

Hope some real life figures help.

Cheers.

[Wodka]

Thanks to all of you providing info so far, really useful

Does anyone know how difficult it would be to get a BRS base eventually?

Is it a big enough base to see regular movement or a dead mans shoes affair?

[More lookout]

Although it may not help, but CWL has always been unpopular and so always has vacancies. As for BRS, well who knows. It really is down to the bid and each years flying program. Why not apply, if you get selected, you'll be given an offer. Make the call then. Sod's law will apply if you don't apply.

Best of luck to all.

[Set 1013]

Would somebody on PPY50 mind saying how much a year you could expect to earn with regards to variable pay? I know youthinkso said 8k over the summer period, max. I was looking for an indication on the annual variable pay covering the winter as well. I wouldn't be willing to leave my family and head to Canada for 5 months. I appreciate this will change from base to base and fleets etc, just a good idea on annual variable pay with out overtime would be a great help. initial sums don't make this look like a great move. It would take approx 7 years to start earning the same salary and I would be about £100k down.

[Aerofoil]

In the winter it really does go the other way. Expect to fly as little as 1 flight a month worst case so your income i'd say is 90%+ made up from your PPY50 salary with VERY little added on for flight pay etc and i don't think i did a single flexi last winter as there simply were none going.