Thomson recruitment.
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Pilots are leaving B.A ???? Know several who have joined......don't know any who have left. It's by far the best gig in the U.K.....Followed fairly closely by Virgin. From what I can tell the rest seem to be little more than garbage now. Shame really.
Not the once mighty Britannia of yore unfortunately. Despite Balpa's best efforts the Ryanairesque intentions of the 'management' beggar belief. Another formerly great airline going down the tubes industrially for the enrichment of the greedy few at the top.
12-15yrs to Command isn't a career.
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Fine if you are an FNG but if you have already ploughed years into the industry, you kinda expect a bit more than BA, J2 or TUI are offering, especially now EASA are in charge of the f
FTLs.
FTLs.
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Fine if you are an FNG but if you have already ploughed years into the industry, you kinda expect a bit more than BA, J2 or TUI are offering, especially now EASA are in charge of the f FTLs.
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Ok PAPI our messages crossed, if you are not a fan of Thomson then please feel free NOT to comment, you don't have to add very negative comments about the industry, we get it it's not what it was.
By the way well done for adding a link to a differences document that we couldn't all find on the CAA website.
Yes it's not great that the new guys are paying £7k for an OCC and they will be on a PPY50 contract but you speak to any of those that joined from RYR and they have all stated that it's 100x better.
The CC and the rest of the workforce will always fight to get better terms and we will always fight to keep the best terms possible. You don't see the turnover of pilots that easy, J2 or RYR have, as those that do work here do actually enjoy it.
By the way well done for adding a link to a differences document that we couldn't all find on the CAA website.
Yes it's not great that the new guys are paying £7k for an OCC and they will be on a PPY50 contract but you speak to any of those that joined from RYR and they have all stated that it's 100x better.
The CC and the rest of the workforce will always fight to get better terms and we will always fight to keep the best terms possible. You don't see the turnover of pilots that easy, J2 or RYR have, as those that do work here do actually enjoy it.
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Actually the 7k was the offer only a few months ago for type rated experienced pilots. It was kept very quiet until the interview and referred to as a 'training cost'. It sounds as though it is your first job and you are loyal, I understand, but you have been drip-fed the wrong info.
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I love the assumptions made by someone who was obviously told no.
The £7k figure has been around for a couple of years, first employer no it's not but I have been there now for ten years and thankfully don't beleive everything that is said.
Anunaki not sure what the requirements will be it will be great though if they do run the cadet scheme again, the four from last time are doing really well and from what I understand are enjoying the job they are now in.
It might not be for everyone and it might not be what the individual thought, there are also those who did get in and are scorned due to the fact that they had a summer only contract (which hopefully will never rear its ugly head again) and wasn't asked back due to some personality issues.
Good luck if you do.
The £7k figure has been around for a couple of years, first employer no it's not but I have been there now for ten years and thankfully don't beleive everything that is said.
Anunaki not sure what the requirements will be it will be great though if they do run the cadet scheme again, the four from last time are doing really well and from what I understand are enjoying the job they are now in.
It might not be for everyone and it might not be what the individual thought, there are also those who did get in and are scorned due to the fact that they had a summer only contract (which hopefully will never rear its ugly head again) and wasn't asked back due to some personality issues.
Good luck if you do.
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rj259
I shall agree with you, Thomson is a fantastic place to work there's no doubt, I would also encourage any LCC pilots who can, apply. The grass is definitely greener.
There are of course gripes from a new joiner and this isn't me having a go rj, but I assume that your on a full time contract and missed the cull a few years ago?!
There's lots to think about for any new joiner, your probably going to be on a reduced pension than everyone else, including PPY 50 for the full five years, year one you have the £7k OCC course to pay back (this is quite hard to swallow) meaning that year one summer, pay wise, is good, however the winter is a struggle, don't expect to fly more than two days a month......
This new One aviation is exciting, but being at the bottom of a seniority list is never a nice feeling....
After you get through year one the pay is fairly reasonable, couple with the perks you get mean that Thomson is a pleasant place to work. The long servers in the company might disagree with that statement, but trust me, from what you have come from, it really is day and night! You just have to get through year one first.
As I said before, expect PPY50 for the full 5 years, although a few are leaving to pastures new, there's no indication from the company what so ever and this is purely my own opinion, that this small number of those leaving may well bring an end to the PPY50 contract sooner than the 5 year period.
Good luck to all those that apply, you will love it if you get in!
PS rj, I didn't appreciate your comment about the summer contract guys, I know a few personally and a nicer bunch you couldn't have met, a few had personal recommendations from captains asking the company to keep them on and so I don't believe your comment about personality problems is very valid.
I shall agree with you, Thomson is a fantastic place to work there's no doubt, I would also encourage any LCC pilots who can, apply. The grass is definitely greener.
There are of course gripes from a new joiner and this isn't me having a go rj, but I assume that your on a full time contract and missed the cull a few years ago?!
There's lots to think about for any new joiner, your probably going to be on a reduced pension than everyone else, including PPY 50 for the full five years, year one you have the £7k OCC course to pay back (this is quite hard to swallow) meaning that year one summer, pay wise, is good, however the winter is a struggle, don't expect to fly more than two days a month......
This new One aviation is exciting, but being at the bottom of a seniority list is never a nice feeling....
After you get through year one the pay is fairly reasonable, couple with the perks you get mean that Thomson is a pleasant place to work. The long servers in the company might disagree with that statement, but trust me, from what you have come from, it really is day and night! You just have to get through year one first.
As I said before, expect PPY50 for the full 5 years, although a few are leaving to pastures new, there's no indication from the company what so ever and this is purely my own opinion, that this small number of those leaving may well bring an end to the PPY50 contract sooner than the 5 year period.
Good luck to all those that apply, you will love it if you get in!
PS rj, I didn't appreciate your comment about the summer contract guys, I know a few personally and a nicer bunch you couldn't have met, a few had personal recommendations from captains asking the company to keep them on and so I don't believe your comment about personality problems is very valid.
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S&G,
Please don't take offence at my comment, I also know that a very large percentage of the summer guys are and will be very very good. I also know they were very frustrated at the fact that the management fed the bull about being kept on. I also know that speaking with some TC's that there were a couple who they really didn't think would or should stay on. Remember it is a big company and there are those you will never hear about.
For the others of whom you know I apologise for my comment.
I did miss the cull a few years ago but not by much, my pension has also been kicked to the floor but yes it is better than what is being offered now and that is really what the CC and the rest of the pilot workforce will be fighting to improve.
I am not completely convinced by the one aviation thing, it may be the best route ever but until then I will remain a little bit sceptical. I hope we can remove the PPY50 for those who join and make it a purely lifestyle choice, maybe even allow trainers to take it to free up space lower down the list for those who really need and want the flying.
Laters.
Please don't take offence at my comment, I also know that a very large percentage of the summer guys are and will be very very good. I also know they were very frustrated at the fact that the management fed the bull about being kept on. I also know that speaking with some TC's that there were a couple who they really didn't think would or should stay on. Remember it is a big company and there are those you will never hear about.
For the others of whom you know I apologise for my comment.
I did miss the cull a few years ago but not by much, my pension has also been kicked to the floor but yes it is better than what is being offered now and that is really what the CC and the rest of the pilot workforce will be fighting to improve.
I am not completely convinced by the one aviation thing, it may be the best route ever but until then I will remain a little bit sceptical. I hope we can remove the PPY50 for those who join and make it a purely lifestyle choice, maybe even allow trainers to take it to free up space lower down the list for those who really need and want the flying.
Laters.
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It's a strange site this.
Jet2 offer a 70% contract for the first year, type rating paid for etc etc and are pilloried for it on here.
Thomson offer a far far more mediocre deal, ripping off type rated people and other than a few raised eyebrows no one cares.
Jet2 offer a 70% contract for the first year, type rating paid for etc etc and are pilloried for it on here.
Thomson offer a far far more mediocre deal, ripping off type rated people and other than a few raised eyebrows no one cares.
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know what you're applying for....
silverknapper, yes that is a good observation.
Those who join package is:
PPY50 - so that means full time May 1st - October 31st
Winter 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off
Pay is 81.3% spread over 12 months of standard salary for 5 years or unless made full time before that (not likely).
Full Time figures
FO £55,435 (1500 hours and 500 jet)
SO £44,348
81.3% for PPY50 (part paid year 50%)
new joiner SO - £36,054
New joiner FO - £45,068
Training Fees
£7k deducted (for training, even if rated)
so becomes
FO £38,068
SO £29,311
for first year of employment.
Monthly Take Home - Year one
A pilot with a standard 15/16 tax code of
FO MONTHLY £2,414
SO monthly £1,918
Over the summer there will be Duty Rig (hourly rate of £8.97 for FO or £7.17 for SO per flying hour) about £700 and basically also add about £3.80ish per hour for duty hours, works out combined total about £700-£1000 per month-ish (before tax).
(These figures are taxable, paid a month in arrears (so pay packet for June - Nov will be higher than Dec-May payments)
Duty Rig and Allowances are not pensionable and productivity based so no fly, no earn.
As mentioned above on 737 fleet assume next to nothng on duty rig and allowances over winter.
Pension - employee pays 3.5% employer USED TO BE 15% but that's a really bad news story the company tried to reduce new joiners employers contribution from 15% to 7% for this years new joiners (after they had given notice elswehere and didnt tell them). That decision has since been reveresed following intervention but only for pilots who have already joined - they have stated they WILL be doing this for new joiners from here on in - 7% pension, that is awful, whether that remains depends on the willingness of the union and company to fight ! But plan on that and there are no nasty surprises.
salary scales for 5 years are below, figures in brackets are the PPY50-81.3% (new joiner figures) of the figures below, there are further reductions for type rating if they go down the non rated route.
SO - 44,348 (36,054)
FO basic 55,435 (45,078)
FO after 5 years in rank - 60,765
FO after 5 years in rank and command suitable 66,095
To Jump From SO to FO need 1500 hours & 500 Jet Hours
*note the "in rank" element of the scales, so if you took 2 years to get from SO to FO and reach 1500 hours you then only just qualify the "in rank" as an FO, so in that example it would take 7 years before triggering the "FO after 5 years in rank" by the wording, no one has reached that point on new scales yet so it remains to be seen how they apply it.
After 5 years length of service the 81.3% is removed and you must be offered full time (you don't have to take it)
If that seems ok to you, then at least you know what the package is. They didn't have enough applicants or a high enough calibre in the last round, perhaps this is grounds to negotiate on the year one training fee if the same happens this year and they cant get enough because of the poor pension.
oh and just to add, if they go down the fixed term contract route like they have a few times (employ you from May - October and suggest there is a chance of a permanent job after) , it is the same terms just for the summer, BUT seek clarification of whether they will deduct the entire £7k for line training for the 6 month contract....I believe they do, OUCH). They didn't keep on the last lot of fixed term pilots, just binned them off after summer.
Those who join package is:
PPY50 - so that means full time May 1st - October 31st
Winter 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off
Pay is 81.3% spread over 12 months of standard salary for 5 years or unless made full time before that (not likely).
Full Time figures
FO £55,435 (1500 hours and 500 jet)
SO £44,348
81.3% for PPY50 (part paid year 50%)
new joiner SO - £36,054
New joiner FO - £45,068
Training Fees
£7k deducted (for training, even if rated)
so becomes
FO £38,068
SO £29,311
for first year of employment.
Monthly Take Home - Year one
A pilot with a standard 15/16 tax code of
FO MONTHLY £2,414
SO monthly £1,918
Over the summer there will be Duty Rig (hourly rate of £8.97 for FO or £7.17 for SO per flying hour) about £700 and basically also add about £3.80ish per hour for duty hours, works out combined total about £700-£1000 per month-ish (before tax).
(These figures are taxable, paid a month in arrears (so pay packet for June - Nov will be higher than Dec-May payments)
Duty Rig and Allowances are not pensionable and productivity based so no fly, no earn.
As mentioned above on 737 fleet assume next to nothng on duty rig and allowances over winter.
Pension - employee pays 3.5% employer USED TO BE 15% but that's a really bad news story the company tried to reduce new joiners employers contribution from 15% to 7% for this years new joiners (after they had given notice elswehere and didnt tell them). That decision has since been reveresed following intervention but only for pilots who have already joined - they have stated they WILL be doing this for new joiners from here on in - 7% pension, that is awful, whether that remains depends on the willingness of the union and company to fight ! But plan on that and there are no nasty surprises.
salary scales for 5 years are below, figures in brackets are the PPY50-81.3% (new joiner figures) of the figures below, there are further reductions for type rating if they go down the non rated route.
SO - 44,348 (36,054)
FO basic 55,435 (45,078)
FO after 5 years in rank - 60,765
FO after 5 years in rank and command suitable 66,095
To Jump From SO to FO need 1500 hours & 500 Jet Hours
*note the "in rank" element of the scales, so if you took 2 years to get from SO to FO and reach 1500 hours you then only just qualify the "in rank" as an FO, so in that example it would take 7 years before triggering the "FO after 5 years in rank" by the wording, no one has reached that point on new scales yet so it remains to be seen how they apply it.
After 5 years length of service the 81.3% is removed and you must be offered full time (you don't have to take it)
If that seems ok to you, then at least you know what the package is. They didn't have enough applicants or a high enough calibre in the last round, perhaps this is grounds to negotiate on the year one training fee if the same happens this year and they cant get enough because of the poor pension.
oh and just to add, if they go down the fixed term contract route like they have a few times (employ you from May - October and suggest there is a chance of a permanent job after) , it is the same terms just for the summer, BUT seek clarification of whether they will deduct the entire £7k for line training for the 6 month contract....I believe they do, OUCH). They didn't keep on the last lot of fixed term pilots, just binned them off after summer.
Last edited by Weakness; 1st May 2015 at 17:51.
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Weakness' post is pretty accurate, but add on a bit to all the numbers, full time fo now 58k after the inflation pay rise, so ppy50 about 48k.
I would also say you could realistically expect a bit more than 1000 a month in duty rig (flight pay) and fda in the summer.maybe 1300 or so. Not all of the fda is taxable, I think about 20% is tax free. But yes it's not pensionable.
Working day off payment is about 470.
I would also say you could realistically expect a bit more than 1000 a month in duty rig (flight pay) and fda in the summer.maybe 1300 or so. Not all of the fda is taxable, I think about 20% is tax free. But yes it's not pensionable.
Working day off payment is about 470.
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Two years ago Thomson received in excess of 900 applicants when it advertised for pilots, I imagine because it was seen as an excellent career airline.
Last year that number fell to just 40. Yes you read that right. Read into that what you will!
Last year that number fell to just 40. Yes you read that right. Read into that what you will!
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PAPI
Yep that's the regs but tell me what the major changes are at Thomson e.g. EASA has no limits on nights but how many will you be operating under EASA - Or is there no change???
PAPI - Come on then tell me what's changed now that EASA FTL's are coming