Thomson recruitment.

[763 jock]

They are after 50 ex Thomas Cook DEC.

[VJW]

Originally Posted by 763 jock

They are after 50 ex Thomas Cook DEC.

From the Liverpool Echo
TUI Airways will create jobs for over 100 pilots and over 200 cabin crew, with 50 Thomas Cook pilots guaranteed to fill the vacancies.

Dawn Wilson, managing director for TUI Airways said: "We are delighted that our additional flying allows us to grow our team of ‘moment makers’ at TUI Airways"Every year we welcome new cabin crew and pilots and this year is set to be our biggest and best yet.

"I’m particularly proud to be able to commit to offering over 50 Thomas Cook Captains the opportunity to join TUI Airways and continue to fly customers on their holidays.”

So of the 100 pilot jobs they’re all DEC with 50 going to ex TCX? 🤔

[pudoc]

Its 100 pilots, 50 of which are TCX DEC. Who will join the bottom of the seniority list as captains. Round of applause to whoever came up with that.

[VJW]

Originally Posted by pudoc

Its 100 pilots, 50 of which are TCX DEC. Who will join the bottom of the seniority list as captains. Round of applause to whoever came up with that.

Yeah I didn’t make my sarcasm obvious enough. I wonder what the FO’s in TUI think? I’m all for airlines bending over backwards to help our unfortunate colleagues at TCX, but at the expense of progression of employees already there is out of order really.

[macdo]

I think if you read the communication released by TUI and by their CC it is clear that they are taking the 50 TCX skippers on because they don't have the training capacity to promote enough FO's into the left seats created by the sudden rapid and unexpected expansion of their s20 operation. Now, in a balanced world the TUI FO's in the command pool may feel aggrieved, but had TCX not gone bust it is likely that the same number of them will have got upgraded as will now. Handled badly, this could really sour industrial relations, but it really shouldn't if sufficient effort is made to explain to the TUI FO's that they have not been disadvantaged. Sadly, history tends to not show that hese things are handled well, so fingers crossed eh?

[763 jock]

Airline managers will do what they want to make a profit. Make no mistake, your career aspirations mean nothing to them.

This will be sold to the TUI pilots as being far better than 3rd party ACMI being used to fill the void. Either way, the result is the same.

[nightfright]

Originally Posted by 763 jock

Airline managers will do what they want to make a profit. Make no mistake, your career aspirations mean nothing to them.

This will be sold to the TUI pilots as being far better than 3rd party ACMI being used to fill the void. Either way, the result is the same.

Totally correct. The fleet preference has always been Boeing and this is obviously a short term plug - Good move from TUI to secure airframes and crew at a lower price and to grow ...... This will no doubt leave significant backlash from existing crew but surely the DEC or Crews will be joining bottom of the rank - nevertheless this will significantly increase the time to command for experienced FOs

[Lazydogg]

Originally Posted by macdo

I think if you read the communication released by TUI and by their CC it is clear that they are taking the 50 TCX skippers on because they don't have the training capacity to promote enough FO's into the left seats created by the sudden rapid and unexpected expansion of their s20 operation. Now, in a balanced world the TUI FO's in the command pool may feel aggrieved, but had TCX not gone bust it is likely that the same number of them will have got upgraded as will now. Handled badly, this could really sour industrial relations, but it really shouldn't if sufficient effort is made to explain to the TUI FO's that they have not been disadvantaged. Sadly, history tends to not show that hese things are handled well, so fingers crossed eh?

I am 100 percent certain I know what the TUI FOs I have spoken with today would say to that. Those same TUI FOs who have waited patiently for command opportunities that are scarce enough as it is. Apparently some of them (up until 1330ish today) have heard nothing yet from the CC. If that’s true, it’s a disgrace in my opinion. If TCX pilots want to join TUI then they should be joining at the bottom of the list as FOs like the existing guys and girls did. Some of the FOs don’t even know if the CRB has sat yet, and what it all means in terms of their potential career progression going forward.
I have always shrugged my shoulders and said “decent career move can’t knock it” when many an FO I’ve flown with over the last number of years has said they are joining TUI. For what’s it’s worth I won’t be anymore if this shambles goes ahead. I wish no bad on the TCX guys, but I genuinely feel for the guys in the RHS at TUI.

Its absolutely wrong and you know it MACDO. Would this have happened in TCX if the roles were reversed?

[Twiglet1]

If TUI are getting extra aircraft at short notice then yes it makes sense i'm afraid - if you promote 50 TUI FO you also need to recruit 50 FO to replace them and 50 for the extra aircraft.
TUI are taking advantage of TC demise and why shouldn't they. The thing TUI must do however is keep promoting FO's for the current establishment such that the current (loyal) FO's are not discriminated against. I'm sure BALPA have put this message over strongly. They should also say that should any of the 50 DEC leave then they are replaced by TUI FO rather than more DEC such that the (loyal) FO's benefit again.
This is NNUTS - Nothing New Under The Sun - many other airlines have done this before

[iggle piggle]

Did Tui do a similar thing back in 2004( roughly) with the creation of Thomsonfly? What happened then? I can’t remember, I’m not with Tui.

[lederhosen]

This happened at BA when British Midland disappeared and there were restrictions on what the direct entry captains could do. Subsequently not all were happy with their lot. It would be interesting to know how that has developed. Given the airbus versus boeing split with TC and Thomson I wonder what they are going to be flying?

[Pin Head]

Seen why they have done it but totally disagree with it. Always saw it coming this though TBH.
what if another credit crunch happens or the Brexit things explodes? Another 5yrs waiting! With guys junior to you making a lot more cash and holding Lhs.

[763 jock]

There are no Boeing pilots from TCX. It has been all Airbus for a while. A handful might be able to do a quick LPC to get the 757 renewed. But only a few.

[Too Few Stripes]

Have the ex-TCX pilots who overwhelmingly voted to stop any DECs at TCX now changed their minds on DEC? Amazing how quickly an opinion changes when the mortgage needs paying. Would TCX Pilots have been happy if the roles were reversed? Tough times for all but perhaps it’s time to have a rethink on strict seniority in certain airlines and also the use of DEC where appropriate.

[twogoodstarts]

In the knowledge of how much this has already ruffled the FO’s feathers at TUI, I’d be very surprised if any TCX DEC would even want to set foot into the left hand seat of a TUI aircraft. They’re not going to be the most popular of people that’s for sure, as many senior FO’s have waited patiently for their turn in what has always been traditionally a legacy seniority based airline.

[double-oscar]

Business is business. If the airline can come up with a plan to manage this expansion then it will be good for everyone. Some might think they have been disadvantaged in the short term but in the long term it should mean more job security. If the airline cannot manage it the alternative is to give the work to a third party operator and in that case no one in the company will benefit. If it is well handled I don't think anyone ex-Thomas Cook should have any fears about joining TUI.

[whatdoesthisbuttondo]

Originally Posted by twogoodstarts

In the knowledge of how much this has already ruffled the FO’s feathers at TUI, I’d be very surprised if any TCX DEC would even want to set foot into the left hand seat of a TUI aircraft. They’re not going to be the most popular of people that’s for sure, as many senior FO’s have waited patiently for their turn in what has always been traditionally a legacy seniority based airline.

Not true.

Thomas Cook pilots will be welcomed into TUI with open arms.

At TUI, been through loads of mergers and changes and the pilots from the ‘other’ company are never blamed.

I and others look forwards to meeting any new pilots from Thomas Cook and hope it works out for them.

This is an unusual situation and the rapid and huge planned TUI expansion wouldn’t be happening if Thomas Cook hadn’t gone bust.

[corporaljones]

Also true, it’s undoubtedly ruffled a few feathers but I think we can all say as TUI FOs we would extend the same courtesy and professionalism towards whoever occupies the LHS. Whilst I won’t fly with any of them on the 787 (that would cause a riot!) I look forward to meeting our new ex-TCX colleagues and hope you are very happy here. You’ll have to give up the Airbus for a right shed though 🤪

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Originally Posted by Too Few Stripes

Have the ex-TCX pilots who overwhelmingly voted to stop any DECs at TCX now changed their minds on DEC? Amazing how quickly an opinion changes when the mortgage needs paying. Would TCX Pilots have been happy if the roles were reversed? Tough times for all but perhaps it’s time to have a rethink on strict seniority in certain airlines and also the use of DEC where appropriate.

If TUI went bust sure they would. The key is BALPA imhv. They say no and it gives Tui the right to go cheapo loco wet lease. That means no promotions for Tui FO.
As long as DEC doesn't impact any upgrades planned then FO's can't complain - for sure there might be a squeeze but upgrades should continue

[macdo]

Originally Posted by Lazydogg

I am 100 percent certain I know what the TUI FOs I have spoken with today would say to that. Those same TUI FOs who have waited patiently for command opportunities that are scarce enough as it is. Apparently some of them (up until 1330ish today) have heard nothing yet from the CC. If that’s true, it’s a disgrace in my opinion. If TCX pilots want to join TUI then they should be joining at the bottom of the list as FOs like the existing guys and girls did. Some of the FOs don’t even know if the CRB has sat yet, and what it all means in terms of their potential career progression going forward.
I have always shrugged my shoulders and said “decent career move can’t knock it” when many an FO I’ve flown with over the last number of years has said they are joining TUI. For what’s it’s worth I won’t be anymore if this shambles goes ahead. I wish no bad on the TCX guys, but I genuinely feel for the guys in the RHS at TUI.

Its absolutely wrong and you know it MACDO. Would this have happened in TCX if the roles were reversed?

I don't really want to get into a spat over this and if you read the next half dozen posts below your own, it covers pretty much all the views applicable to the circumstances. To answer your question directly, in my (long) service this has happened on two occasions which affected me directly. And to be honest, my feathers were ruffled for a short while, but at the time, the rapid expansion of the airline dragged everyone in its wake and the feathers were soon unruffled. If TUI was in a period of stagnation I would be in total agreement with you, but TUI is growing and with the demise of TCG it has the potential to grow very fast indeed. Or else J2 will suck up the business and everyone else will be up a creek. If you get new aircraft that require 50 Captains but can't train them yourself, this is a nil sum game for the existing FO's at worst, and a faster promotion at best. I can tell you one thing for sure, I would far rather go this route than suffer the indignity of creeping ACMI. Just ask the displaced TC crews, all recent, who's work was being done by ACMI. That is the thin end of a very dangerous wedge. All the best.