Monarch in turbulence
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Easyjet Switzerland FO £5200-£5500 after tax plus a very healthy pension.
Easyjet Switzerland Capt £8500-9500 after tax plus a super pension.
Again, get your facts straight.
Easyjet Switzerland Capt £8500-9500 after tax plus a super pension.
Again, get your facts straight.
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For info:
10 year UK easy capt - 120k (3.3% rise next month). There are 3 fairly lucrative share schemes and a profit share scheme which paid out about 5k last year. I think it's more this year if the results are good enough. FO's are on 45-65 (correct me if this is wrong). This is after 12-18 months on pretty low pay if you join as a cadet. New commanders go onto the same contract as all the other commanders.
10 year UK easy capt - 120k (3.3% rise next month). There are 3 fairly lucrative share schemes and a profit share scheme which paid out about 5k last year. I think it's more this year if the results are good enough. FO's are on 45-65 (correct me if this is wrong). This is after 12-18 months on pretty low pay if you join as a cadet. New commanders go onto the same contract as all the other commanders.
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SFO in the UK around £4000 after tax, Capt around £5000. Blame the tax man for that.
easy jet needed to change - when people joined back in the day they were taking a gamble - for taking that gamble they were offered £25K golden hellos and 20000 shares - which I know some still have offering them 5 figure dividend payments each year and have a worth of £280K today. Back then they asked people to INVEST their experience and opportunism in the company.
Now the airline is extremely successful and offers a much more stable, guaranteed (as guaranteed as any flying job can be) platform - that means they don't need to give, offer and buy so much. Once a pilot has INVESTED time in the company they will be on the figures above. For sure. In return the pilot is given excellent training, a stable platform to get as worthwhile flying experience as you like (we don't just do RV'd ILSs in an easy Airbus to quell another myth - we can do raw data, man thrust, visuals, circling, foul weather (even harder in an airbus), long days, long blocks, plenty of tech issues, huge, varied workforce, multinational operation etc. etc.). Once they have some experience they get on to experienced pilot's pay. It's a more than fair substitute for flying cessnas, senecas, trilanders or TPs. It's a targeted career structure - one which I've been extremely grateful to have. It's the same MON have offered minus the job security but plus some money.
It's just my opinion.
That said, it's extremely satisfying slam dunking the ill informed's myths.
easy jet needed to change - when people joined back in the day they were taking a gamble - for taking that gamble they were offered £25K golden hellos and 20000 shares - which I know some still have offering them 5 figure dividend payments each year and have a worth of £280K today. Back then they asked people to INVEST their experience and opportunism in the company.
Now the airline is extremely successful and offers a much more stable, guaranteed (as guaranteed as any flying job can be) platform - that means they don't need to give, offer and buy so much. Once a pilot has INVESTED time in the company they will be on the figures above. For sure. In return the pilot is given excellent training, a stable platform to get as worthwhile flying experience as you like (we don't just do RV'd ILSs in an easy Airbus to quell another myth - we can do raw data, man thrust, visuals, circling, foul weather (even harder in an airbus), long days, long blocks, plenty of tech issues, huge, varied workforce, multinational operation etc. etc.). Once they have some experience they get on to experienced pilot's pay. It's a more than fair substitute for flying cessnas, senecas, trilanders or TPs. It's a targeted career structure - one which I've been extremely grateful to have. It's the same MON have offered minus the job security but plus some money.
It's just my opinion.
That said, it's extremely satisfying slam dunking the ill informed's myths.
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Thats a fair appraisal of the job. I thought this was the case as you see few moans about the pay at Easy, apart from the way they treat the cadets. The only thing a MON pilot might miss out on is the potential for LH, which I find is less knackering than constant SH. Only a personal opinion, of course. That job security is worth an awful lot these days.
macdo,
Still you are out-of-date and wrong.
The cadets do 12 months of flexicrew and then are on to a fully employed £40K pa salary. Not brilliant, but not a disaster. They do that for a year, then the next grade for 2 years, then SFO from then on.
I don't think it's unreasonable to have a complete newbie on a 12 month trial, do you? Around 1% fail to get the job at the 1 year point, and they tend to be the ones with very odd attitudes.
So much
in this thread. You cannot blame Monarch's failure on poor terms at eJ. The problem at eJ is fatigue. The problem at most airlines is the managers failing in their roles (or making decisions based on short term personal greed).
Still you are out-of-date and wrong.
The cadets do 12 months of flexicrew and then are on to a fully employed £40K pa salary. Not brilliant, but not a disaster. They do that for a year, then the next grade for 2 years, then SFO from then on.
I don't think it's unreasonable to have a complete newbie on a 12 month trial, do you? Around 1% fail to get the job at the 1 year point, and they tend to be the ones with very odd attitudes.
So much
in this thread. You cannot blame Monarch's failure on poor terms at eJ. The problem at eJ is fatigue. The problem at most airlines is the managers failing in their roles (or making decisions based on short term personal greed).
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100%
Suggest you read 100% of my post. I offered no opinion on easy T&Cs except that they seemed quite reasonable in comparison to mine with a legacy airline. The treatment of cadets by easy and other LoCo's is a statement of fact and history, but I largely agree that 40k is a reasonable start point. I also agreed with you that the LoCo SH lifestyle is not one I would find attractive, for the very reason you state.
Please don't shoot from the hip, old chap.
Suggest you read 100% of my post. I offered no opinion on easy T&Cs except that they seemed quite reasonable in comparison to mine with a legacy airline. The treatment of cadets by easy and other LoCo's is a statement of fact and history, but I largely agree that 40k is a reasonable start point. I also agreed with you that the LoCo SH lifestyle is not one I would find attractive, for the very reason you state.
Please don't shoot from the hip, old chap.
Judging from the feedback of ex EZY guys who joined BA, I don't see much difference in SH lifestyle, except the BA guys spend much more time away from home, twiddle their fingers for an hour or two between sectors and enjoy forced draft and the frustrations of LHR.
I'll stick with LoCo.
I'll stick with LoCo.
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I know some MON pilots who would cut a limb off for an EZY seat now - the ones who are likely not to have a job soon - and not just the ones who previously jumped ship from EZY.
macdo,
Not shooting from the hip - just responding to:
which appears to be entirely in the present tense.
Not shooting from the hip - just responding to:
Originally Posted by macdo
apart from the way they treat the cadets
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There is talk of DECs in the UK at the moment and it had been confirmed that if this is to happen then it will be onto the existing contract. I sincerely hope this is all about taking on some of the MON pilots but I have no idea if this is the intention.
3.3% payrise coming this week courtesy of Stelios. Although its been alluded to I cannot reconcile UK DEC's when there are over 200 SFO's in the Command Pool patiently waiting. Its the Middle East carriers that suddenly find themselves short of pilots and short of experienced ones to upgrade.
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Taking on a dozen or two MON CPs would delay an SFO's promotion by a matter of weeks or months. A small price to pay for offering these UK based pilots an opportunity to stay here no?
We're adding 80 airframes in the next 5 years. There is room!
Disclaimer: I have no idea whether this is the intention.
We're adding 80 airframes in the next 5 years. There is room!
Disclaimer: I have no idea whether this is the intention.
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Whyeyeman
A fine sentiment, however, I can't see that being easyJet's intention per se.
Any DEC recruitment would, I suspect, be run on the basis of need, not altruism.
As WWW said, with 200 or so command ready FO's in the easyJet system, what is there to gain necessarily?
Any DEC recruitment would, I suspect, be run on the basis of need, not altruism.
As WWW said, with 200 or so command ready FO's in the easyJet system, what is there to gain necessarily?
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Whyeyeman, what is important is having staff who actively WANT to fly for the company not now NEED to fly for them because there bet didn't come in - like many BMI pilots took the punt and look at them now with us - those that didn't got shafted. There was plenty of opportunity for these people to apply a handful of years ago or even in the last round of OPO, NAP, and AMS recruitment. Just because one wants a certain basing doesn't mean you're owed it. Talk about wanting to have your cake and eat it. I feel for these people hugely but if they have to go abroad that's too bad - I've had to for 5 years and plenty of others have too - look at so many of the LGW commanders. Expecting us to pity people when we've had to do it within this company is nonsense - especially if they're taking my command and pay uplift ahead of me when I've invested a lot of time in the company.
WhyByFlier you're right; if the company and unions agree to accept DEC's then I feel it is only fair the same criteria apply to them as to the command upgrades. If easyJet are offering commands at their new bases and they are not being filled from within then any offer to a DEC should be to fill those bases before the UK bases or others of choice.
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Chaps, if you havn't made this realisation yet then let me enlighten you. Where you end up in this industry is largely a matter of luck depending on who's recruiting at the time that you are looking for a job. Let's not pretend we all had some kind of superhuman foresight now that it turns out we work for a successful airline. I appreciate that it's easy for me to say this from the LHS but one day you might have a huge mortgage, a family to support, school fees to pay etc etc and next time it might be you! Hard to imagine right now though I grant you.
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What so 3 weeks ago they couldn't have applied for the DEC in NAP, OPO and AMS? Why should their 'bad luck' become my 'bad luck'? Sick and tired in this industry of this socialist mindset that other people's problens are everyone's problems. BMI pilots left BMI 9-6 years ago en masse to join Easyjet because they had foresight. It isn't just luck - as I said in another thread, luck is the venn diagram where opportunity and preparation coincide. Chance has a role in everything. Credit yourself with more intelligence - judgement is the tiny little decisions your brain is making without you realising it. I'm desperately sorry for people who may be out of a job and I can't help but feels genuine pangs in my heart and gut for them but there's a well paid job for them out in Qatar, Asia etc. which will even house them and pay for their kids education. Plenty of mil pilots had to do long tours, during or after their careers in Germany and the Middle East. It's the job food chain. Nothing is guaranteed - Easyjet might very well do a Tesco's in 3 years. Get rid of the lefty, over evolved mindset that there's more fat than there is (and thus giving it away) and be more risk averse - look after your FOs who've been here 5-7 years waiting for a command.