Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

Monarch in turbulence

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

Monarch in turbulence

Old 17th Sep 2014, 17:05
  #241 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
That's direct policy of the airlines to flood the industry with Mcpilots.......
Thadius is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2014, 05:44
  #242 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: 🇬🇧🇪🇸
Posts: 2,094
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I recently heard a very young MON F/O whinging to a mate in the car park crew bus that he'd have to apply to EZY and when he got the job he'd be shafted on an EZY flexi contract. Obviously, his situational awareness (surrounded by EZY crew) and NOTECH skills (zero) will see him fall at the first hurdle . Good luck in BA, if you make it (which I doubt).
Nightstop is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2014, 06:38
  #243 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 688
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
Enzo99 Strange that you think these young F/O will be accepted by BA when a lot of the existing F/O's who applied have not been. Don't see why BA should be charitable just because Monarch are in difficulties; they can pick and choose who they want.

I agree with these last sentiments - why re-employ a pilot who chooses to leave for a 'better' airline only a year ago. If they do get accepted back they will be on the new contracts which will make them worse off then they were before.

To give preference to an ex ezy pilot over any other applicant I would have thought they would need to be exceptional AND have had a very good reason to resign.

Last edited by stiglet; 18th Sep 2014 at 07:29.
stiglet is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2014, 09:10
  #244 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A small bunch of whining brats are getting far too much airtime on this thread.
renort is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2014, 09:43
  #245 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Of all who left from our base in the North for Monarch I only rated two. The rest were self absorbed and useless in my humble opinion.
JosuaNkomo is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2014, 10:04
  #246 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I have to say there are some really shameful attitudes on display here. People taking pleasure in the downfall of an airline and the livelihoods of cadets/MPL/easyjetleavers.

They're all people, they all have rent/mortgages. Friends, family. A pension to save for. Just because they, for example, left easyJet for Monarch, with or without dignity, doesn't mean they become daemons unworthy of sympathy. There's far too much bitter pleasure being taken in a hindsight strengthened "I told you so" going on here.

Shame on this forum.
Blantoon is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2014, 11:36
  #247 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Around the world.
Age: 42
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The schadenfreude on display is sickening (not just in this thread), covered up with a superficial 'sorry for those losing their jobs' or some such hollow turn of phrase. I suppose I should expect no less from the industry that gave us pay to fly, flexi crew, 'self employed' airline pilots, SSTR etc.
tom775257 is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2014, 11:53
  #248 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Absolutely shameful humanity on display hidden behind anonymity. The chips are down my friends. Try not to forget that.
bigjarv is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2014, 12:17
  #249 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Southbank
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
At the end of the day the whole company is at risk if an investor isn't found!
crosswind11 is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2014, 12:42
  #250 (permalink)  
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: TOD
Posts: 2,058
Received 40 Likes on 16 Posts
Keep some perspective please, most people here have only wished well for those affected - don't let a small number of ignorant contributors detract from the fact that the vast majority of fellow professionals and ppruners would like to see Monarch continuing to fly and offer secure employment for many more years.
speedrestriction is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2014, 14:05
  #251 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Being pragmatic for a moment. It's dog eat dog out there. There are only limited oppurtunities for Airbus type rated pilots in the uk. BA - you've still got to be a BA bod and fit the type they want. Virgin aren't recruiting and Easyjet will pick and choose. Also none of these offer DECs. So for many the future is bleak, for many a future may become brighter in the long term. As for 757, it's Thomson or DHL. The days of chief pilots phoning their mate at xyz airways and asking to take on some pilots has gone. HR has taken over! I wish the best to all at Monarch; I suspect many will leave in the next year if an investor is found. Some have no choice but to stay and sweat it out. What we have to learn is that as pilots we've helped create a lot of our employment issues. P2f, MPL etc.
More lookout is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2014, 20:54
  #252 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 3,032
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 11 Posts
Originally Posted by tom775257
schadenfreude
Tom,

You have to understand what it was like back then, in the big orange world.

We had piles of new pilots arriving, on a really nasty zero-hours contract (in effect). Morale was low, and dissatisfaction was high.

Us oldies, though, did our best for these new pilots. While the company was financially shafting them, we treated them as well as any other new entrant. Possibly more so than usual, given the hardship, and the shared venom at the same target.

There were two groups, though. Those that recognised that they were inexperienced apprentices and they would have to put their head down and work through the difficult times, on the basis that better times were ahead. And those who screamed hate. Hate at the company, hate at the Captains, hate at CTC.

Many of those that hated got jobs at Monarch. And then they gloated and hated - possibly more so once they had a secure offer. They were very difficult to operate with. Some nice guys also got jobs with Monarch too.

In the mean time, we all got together and fixed the issue for these new pilots. Everyone did. BALPA, Captains, First Officers. We pulled as a team, and we ended up with a resolution that all parties are happy with (or equally unhappy, if you are a negotiation pessimist).

Now, we would be delighted to have the "good guys" back. But those haters, those that spat vile at those who were doing their best to help... well, we wish them well, but you have to understand that easyJet are unlikely to welcome them back. It's only a handful, but we remember them well. It's an old adage that you should never burn your bridges in aviation, but it is oh so true.
HundredPercentPlease is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2014, 00:29
  #253 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Somewhere between Avant and Vaton.....usually
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Good post HundredPercentPlease. Our union members at Norwegian are trying to replicate that same feat i.e. BALPA, SEPLA, NASPA, NPU, Captains and FOs pulling together for a fair and sustainable career path. Make no mistake it won't be a walk in the park but as Norwegian are planning on being a significant player, particularly in LGW, it is vital for the industry in Europe that we get the right result.

Rumours are that our training department are in talks with CTC in relation to cadets. We have all seen what can happen with that and you guys at Easy know it all too well.

The terms and conditions that pilots at Easy fought for and achieved are the benchmark for what the pilot community at Norwegian want.

If we achieve what we are aiming for and those Airbus Neos do arrive on an apron (I'm not sure where but I'm hearing reports a few of them will), then that can only be good news for Monarch pilots that are unfortunate to be let go or find themselves out of work or in an undesirable part of the world.

I genuinely hope things work out in the end for Monarch. It will be a black day in this industry if they don't.

I for one have my fingers crossed.
go around flaps15 is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2014, 09:33
  #254 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 639
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I wouldn't be too harsh on the ex-EZY cadets, as many were young and some expected a utopian world once flying big jets.

Us oldies, though, did our best for these new pilots.
If you had done your best, they would never have been on those contracts.
FANS is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2014, 11:10
  #255 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I wouldn't be too harsh on the ex-EZY cadets, as many were young and some expected a utopian world once flying big jets.


Tosh


1. They knew exactly what the contract entailed. They signed up to it.
2. Most were substandard operator's who struggled to land an aircraft.
3.There was enough advice out there BALPA,friends,these forums and word of mouth to dissuade them to commence training.
4. Most of them were more interested in their phones, social media, crew and their own needs than contributing to the duty.


Most of those who left will not be happy anywhere. They cut off their noses to spite their faces when they left a viable company to join a company which most in the business knew had serious issues.


Good luck to those who have an uncertain future but don't expect sympathy for those who jumped ship.

Last edited by JosuaNkomo; 19th Sep 2014 at 11:35. Reason: computer issues
JosuaNkomo is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2014, 11:38
  #256 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: UK
Age: 39
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
what about the guys without big jets dreams who have struggled for years to get a job in easy and are now placed in the holding pool probably forever and probably because the union will force easy to hire former monarch...sadness for them...
lollo1753 is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2014, 11:42
  #257 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There was enough advice out there BALPA,friends,these forums and word of mouth to dissuade them to commence training.
http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...ew-thread.html

I think you will find that a lot of them were actively sold the product by one of your own on this site.
mad_jock is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2014, 14:49
  #258 (permalink)  
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Schloss Neuschwanstein
Posts: 4,306
Received 106 Likes on 39 Posts
Wise words from HundredPercentPlease. Some hard lessons about to be learnt here. Maybe easyJet is not now so bad after all - yesterday they just announced a big increase in dividends for all shareholders, and the conversion of options on 27 new jets to be delivered between 2015-2018. One of life's golden rules is that you never burn bridges (that applies to any job anywhere and is not exclusive to aviation). There are a few people who are having to relearn that the hard way.
Count of Monte Bisto is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2014, 16:53
  #259 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: South of Watford
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I think it is true to say that many FOs who left easy to go to Monarch did so thinking they were somehow inflicting retribution on the company who would struggle to replace them. This as I pointed out to many at the time is not the reason to leave. Once they had given in their notice many were a pain to fly with and those of us left behind were frankly relieved to see the back of them. Tragic though it is for these FOs it would be a mistake for them to return. Many did burn their bridges and would not get pass their initial contact with the company. For all it is a harsh and early lesson in the big nasty world of how big decisions should be taken for the right reason. Furthermore, in this small world don't burn your bridges and be nice to your colleagues on your rise through a company because you will see them again on your way down.
Having said the above the ex easyjet pilots now being made redundant from Monarch are only a small minority of those now seeking jobs and I hope easyjet will take the opportunity to take some experienced and well trained pilots offering fair contracts. However I fear they will be more likely to be offered NAP OPO or AMS contracts.
Good luck to all.

Last edited by pitotheat; 19th Sep 2014 at 17:25. Reason: Writing on a phone
pitotheat is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2014, 17:10
  #260 (permalink)  

Uncle Pete
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Frodsham Cheshire
Posts: 915
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There's an old saying: Never kick your First Officers a**se, he might be your next Chief Pilot

And I've seen it happen.....the Chief Pilot bit
MaximumPete is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.