AirTanker recruiting FOs
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Angel,
60K for 2000 hour medium and heavy captain, IRE, Sim instructor, 4000 hours Total time on 5 different types from single engine turboprop to 4 turbo, to 3 Jet. plus all the cr@p that goes in with the military (fewer people, more work). Rosters that change 12 hours before you launch. Thats before we talk about the tents.
No way is it comparable!
Pension, looking at around 55K lump sum and an annual pension of 7k, wit no CPI increment until Normal Pension age. Thats for 18 years service and the TOS are a whole load worse for new guys!
Would I change it? Not for the world. Great group of guys and girls to work with.
60K for 2000 hour medium and heavy captain, IRE, Sim instructor, 4000 hours Total time on 5 different types from single engine turboprop to 4 turbo, to 3 Jet. plus all the cr@p that goes in with the military (fewer people, more work). Rosters that change 12 hours before you launch. Thats before we talk about the tents.
No way is it comparable!
Pension, looking at around 55K lump sum and an annual pension of 7k, wit no CPI increment until Normal Pension age. Thats for 18 years service and the TOS are a whole load worse for new guys!
Would I change it? Not for the world. Great group of guys and girls to work with.
Last edited by VinRouge; 24th May 2014 at 13:19.
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Angelorange
Are you having a laugh!?
JEFTS was a total mess. Civvy instructors who couldn't teach aeros and formation.
Civvy instructors who had failed RAF selection teaching the RAF to fly!
Totally shambollic hierarchical structures and willy waving between civ and military.
If you had said Shawbury then fair enough. That was well run.
As far as wages comparison, you are having a laugh.
As Vin said, I don't regret a moment, but financially my mil years are a black hole.
Are you having a laugh!?
JEFTS was a total mess. Civvy instructors who couldn't teach aeros and formation.
Civvy instructors who had failed RAF selection teaching the RAF to fly!
Totally shambollic hierarchical structures and willy waving between civ and military.
If you had said Shawbury then fair enough. That was well run.
As far as wages comparison, you are having a laugh.
As Vin said, I don't regret a moment, but financially my mil years are a black hole.
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JEFTS was the model 1995-1999
Actually JEFTS put out almost 500 students per year and those at LOO actually found the quality to be higher than elsewhere at that time - some of that might have been to do with the choice of aeroplane which matched the cadence in terms of event cycle for the first 50 hours of Tucano BFT plus screening for the single seat Harrier force.
The truth is the Civis were mostly ex RAF/RN and AAC and those that weren't happened to be top notch QFIs and aviators with a National Aerobatic champion among them. They had the highest number of A2 QFIs of any unit and the chief pilot was an A1 QFI. They had to do regular RAF STDS, CFS Exam Wing, Flt and Sqn Cmdr rides and maintain CAA QFI, SEP and Multi IRs. So stop the drivel and get down to the facts! As for pay they were on significantly less than service personnel at the time and lost out on pensions when companies changed.
Lets hope future contracting teams learn from the past and repudiate dyed in the wool prejudices!
The truth is the Civis were mostly ex RAF/RN and AAC and those that weren't happened to be top notch QFIs and aviators with a National Aerobatic champion among them. They had the highest number of A2 QFIs of any unit and the chief pilot was an A1 QFI. They had to do regular RAF STDS, CFS Exam Wing, Flt and Sqn Cmdr rides and maintain CAA QFI, SEP and Multi IRs. So stop the drivel and get down to the facts! As for pay they were on significantly less than service personnel at the time and lost out on pensions when companies changed.
Lets hope future contracting teams learn from the past and repudiate dyed in the wool prejudices!
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Angelorange
It is you that spouts drivel.
Yes there was one outstanding civvy instructor, but I can't think of any other non ex mil were not dross.
It was a shambles.
No continuity, far too many students, busses for an hour in the morning to RAF Netwon because Barkstone could not cope. 50% of the flying in the last 10% of the course due to backlogs. Students being launched en mass into suckers gaps. Farcical briefing arrangements.
Yes the 260 Firefly was good, but that is hardly relevant.
It is you that spouts drivel.
Yes there was one outstanding civvy instructor, but I can't think of any other non ex mil were not dross.
It was a shambles.
No continuity, far too many students, busses for an hour in the morning to RAF Netwon because Barkstone could not cope. 50% of the flying in the last 10% of the course due to backlogs. Students being launched en mass into suckers gaps. Farcical briefing arrangements.
Yes the 260 Firefly was good, but that is hardly relevant.
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Putting JEFTS to one side for a moment, anything on ATrS recruitment? I threw an application in for this as a non-'Bus-rated ex RAF Multi Engine mate. I'm curious as to whether they are getting many rated applicants, or if most are in similar situations to myself?
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If your unpleasant "dross" accusation were true, Tourist, clearly the (RAF) checking procedure is at fault. There weren't separate assessment procedures for ex-mil and non ex-mil instructors.
As for the rest, almost everything you said could have applied to my 1984 BFTS course, except that was preceded by six months holding due to shortage of ...well nobody bothered even to ask, Her Majesty was paying. Happy days!
As for the rest, almost everything you said could have applied to my 1984 BFTS course, except that was preceded by six months holding due to shortage of ...well nobody bothered even to ask, Her Majesty was paying. Happy days!
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Apparently they've had over 300 applications in. The hiring manager will be in touch with people whether successful or not. Not sure what to think if nothing has been heard and the first interview date is next Tuesday!
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I'm certainly not getting a warm and fuzzy about it....
Do we know what the demographic of the applicants is? I can't imagine many rated chaps jumping from the UK operators but I guess there might be some ex-pats looking to resettle back in Blighty.
Do we know what the demographic of the applicants is? I can't imagine many rated chaps jumping from the UK operators but I guess there might be some ex-pats looking to resettle back in Blighty.
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Perhaps an issue in Virgin, not to mention potential question marks over the future of the company - Airtanker should be a pretty safe bet for the future.
I thought Monarch was a good place for command these days?
I thought Monarch was a good place for command these days?
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The future of any company is an unknown but the Virgin/Delta tie up is certainly looked upon as a positive move and both companies are already reaping the rewards!
Wrt Monarch and command, if you're on the long haul fleet with a long haul life style and you're offered command then you have to go back to short haul and kiss goodbye to the a330. I don't see a long haul future for monarch anyway tbh. Once you do get your command at spotty M it's then 4-7 days on to DLM, BOD, TFS etc etc for the next 30 plus years (if it's not sold off or merged before that with the associated job uncertanty).... No thanks! Air Tanker would be relatively easy work, possibly a quick command and used as a stepping stone to elsewhere.
Lots and lots of different scenarios but people make their own educated choices out of what suits them. As people get older it's not just a command thing or a money thing, people will make decisions based on other, more important factors such as lifestyle! Now, Air Tanker and it's type of work might not suit me but it might be right up an ex mil chaps street or someone who is in the desert looking for an exit or someone who is perhaps in their late 40's at one of the above mentioned airlines who would like a long haul command to see their days out. Horses for courses chaps/chapesses!
Wrt Monarch and command, if you're on the long haul fleet with a long haul life style and you're offered command then you have to go back to short haul and kiss goodbye to the a330. I don't see a long haul future for monarch anyway tbh. Once you do get your command at spotty M it's then 4-7 days on to DLM, BOD, TFS etc etc for the next 30 plus years (if it's not sold off or merged before that with the associated job uncertanty).... No thanks! Air Tanker would be relatively easy work, possibly a quick command and used as a stepping stone to elsewhere.
Lots and lots of different scenarios but people make their own educated choices out of what suits them. As people get older it's not just a command thing or a money thing, people will make decisions based on other, more important factors such as lifestyle! Now, Air Tanker and it's type of work might not suit me but it might be right up an ex mil chaps street or someone who is in the desert looking for an exit or someone who is perhaps in their late 40's at one of the above mentioned airlines who would like a long haul command to see their days out. Horses for courses chaps/chapesses!
Champagne anyone...?
Thread Starter
As far as I'm aware the apps from Virgin were from 1 or 2 folk that were looking to go part time with Virgin and part time reservist with ATr. Happy to be corrected though.
Don't worry Father Jack, I think the only potential questions over the future of the company at the moment are whether we get 777 or 350s.....
Don't worry Father Jack, I think the only potential questions over the future of the company at the moment are whether we get 777 or 350s.....
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Stoppers,
I know, it's a hard old life at VS, lucky git!
Blightypilot,
I had indeed heard that LH wasn't really part of the Monarch future master plan, but certainly as a short-haul prospect I think they compare pretty well with the competition. Now if they would only go ahead and recruit already.....
I know, it's a hard old life at VS, lucky git!
Blightypilot,
I had indeed heard that LH wasn't really part of the Monarch future master plan, but certainly as a short-haul prospect I think they compare pretty well with the competition. Now if they would only go ahead and recruit already.....