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Originally Posted by flightglobal
. He adds that BA will be adding new international routes from Gatwick as a result of the purchase.
BA is the second-biggest carrier at Gatwick and recent expansion has included new long-haul destinations such as Oakland and Fort Lauderdale, both of which put it in competition with Norwegian. Next summer, BA will add Gatwick flights to Las Vegas and Toronto.
IAG agreed to buy Monarch's slots late last month for an undisclosed sum following a UK High Court ruling that administrators KPMG could sell them.
BA is the second-biggest carrier at Gatwick and recent expansion has included new long-haul destinations such as Oakland and Fort Lauderdale, both of which put it in competition with Norwegian. Next summer, BA will add Gatwick flights to Las Vegas and Toronto.
IAG agreed to buy Monarch's slots late last month for an undisclosed sum following a UK High Court ruling that administrators KPMG could sell them.
In the nicest possible way, I’ve been hearing “good news”, “looking good”, “cautiously optimistic” since I stumbled into the pool 14 odd months ago, and it’s wearing a bit thin.
Yes, I agree there’s an expansion into LGW planned, which will require a number of new pilots. I’m expecting those pilots to come from CTC “White Tail”, and an email to those of us in the pool setting out exactly why it’s good news for us all, and have another 18 month extension, starting from some indeterminate point.
Yes, I agree there’s an expansion into LGW planned, which will require a number of new pilots. I’m expecting those pilots to come from CTC “White Tail”, and an email to those of us in the pool setting out exactly why it’s good news for us all, and have another 18 month extension, starting from some indeterminate point.
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Here’s a thought guys/gals....
So doesn’t anyone think that the recent round of recruitment that BA done to acquire this latest batch of pilots for its hols pool only to discard and recruit “White Tails” instead feel like that is blatant discrimination.
I reckon it could come under the Equality Act 2010. Would it not be very hard for BA to justify advertising vacancies and still filling those vacancies with let’s call it what it is, the cheaper option i.e. White Tails which not always I admit but basically means age discrimination as I would argue most in the hold pool are older than the White Tails with more experience and more expensive. Hence not now the required option under Mr Cruz
The guidance notes for employers on ACAS is interesting reading if anyone isn’t familiar and it does state that if there is a discriminatory effect with the sole aim of reducing costs it is likely to be unlawful.
Wasn’t that the reason stated on a yammer post somewhere in the forums of BA?
I see there are a few candidates already mentioning that should they even get and offer now they would likely turn it down. Is no one else sitting in this hold pool with a bad taste in their mouth having probably had a number of attempts to pass the selection over the years at no small cost every time to finally have been successful and placed into a hold pool only to be passed over by the younger less experienced cheaper option!
I doubt anyone dare take them to court for fear it would immediately rule them out of the privaledge to work for them.
So doesn’t anyone think that the recent round of recruitment that BA done to acquire this latest batch of pilots for its hols pool only to discard and recruit “White Tails” instead feel like that is blatant discrimination.
I reckon it could come under the Equality Act 2010. Would it not be very hard for BA to justify advertising vacancies and still filling those vacancies with let’s call it what it is, the cheaper option i.e. White Tails which not always I admit but basically means age discrimination as I would argue most in the hold pool are older than the White Tails with more experience and more expensive. Hence not now the required option under Mr Cruz
The guidance notes for employers on ACAS is interesting reading if anyone isn’t familiar and it does state that if there is a discriminatory effect with the sole aim of reducing costs it is likely to be unlawful.
Wasn’t that the reason stated on a yammer post somewhere in the forums of BA?
I see there are a few candidates already mentioning that should they even get and offer now they would likely turn it down. Is no one else sitting in this hold pool with a bad taste in their mouth having probably had a number of attempts to pass the selection over the years at no small cost every time to finally have been successful and placed into a hold pool only to be passed over by the younger less experienced cheaper option!
I doubt anyone dare take them to court for fear it would immediately rule them out of the privaledge to work for them.
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I personally am with times reader on this one, however they have never extended the pool beyond 18 months before as far as I am aware. With the need for more pilots with the gatwick slots the question is can the training department cope with training so many white tail cadets short notice?
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If they can’t, then some rated guys/gal floating near the top of the pool may be in with a chance.
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2017 was always going to be a year of little or no recruitment. This was known and talked about on here from at least the middle of 2016. Recruitment was predicted to pickup again in 2018 but again, it has been known for quite some time that there are a fair number of FPP pilots at the front of the queue. It is also known that BA’s training department struggled with the requirement before this lull, and so they were highly likely to try to avoid a similar scenario. So recruitment was always unlikely to be of such a high volume as last time around.
I appreciate it is frustrating waiting for your recruitment date to come along, but I personally think these Gatwick slots are the first real opportunity for DEP holdpool recruitment in well over a year. It will not empty the entire pool for sure, but I predict some of you will be getting a call fairly soon after the plan for the slots is finalised. Determining who is needed, when and where, is a complex task because the PRIAM result just released is likely now largely obsolete, and it will have to be rerun internally before the precise nature of extra recruitment can be determined. That cannot happen until they have established what they are doing with the slots, which is determined by where they can source planes etc.. It took several months to get a result last time around, and I suspect getting their ducks in a row in preparation to run it this time will be even more complex. I would expect several months yet, and the actual document will unlikely be made public this time, other than perhaps approximate seniorities for various positions, and maybe numbers of new pilots required. These extra slots were not even a slight possibility a couple of months back. It is bound to take a little time to determine the best course of action.
Will some of you turn the offer down when it comes? Of course you will, because a lot changes in eighteen months.
I appreciate it is frustrating waiting for your recruitment date to come along, but I personally think these Gatwick slots are the first real opportunity for DEP holdpool recruitment in well over a year. It will not empty the entire pool for sure, but I predict some of you will be getting a call fairly soon after the plan for the slots is finalised. Determining who is needed, when and where, is a complex task because the PRIAM result just released is likely now largely obsolete, and it will have to be rerun internally before the precise nature of extra recruitment can be determined. That cannot happen until they have established what they are doing with the slots, which is determined by where they can source planes etc.. It took several months to get a result last time around, and I suspect getting their ducks in a row in preparation to run it this time will be even more complex. I would expect several months yet, and the actual document will unlikely be made public this time, other than perhaps approximate seniorities for various positions, and maybe numbers of new pilots required. These extra slots were not even a slight possibility a couple of months back. It is bound to take a little time to determine the best course of action.
Will some of you turn the offer down when it comes? Of course you will, because a lot changes in eighteen months.
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What changed is that someone had a bright idea to recruit whitetails directly from CTC, in addition to the FPP cadets, as a cost saving exercise.
As I understand it, white tails are being recruited from CTC both after their flying training (IR) phase, and after the groundschool phase. So there will be some available almost immediately, as well as more in the pipeline. With easyJet confident that they have sufficient FOs in place for Summer ‘18, there is no shortage.
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I didn’t realise any whitetails were being recruited after flying phase. If that is the case then I guess they will be recruited first, but only if the airbus training department can cope. The strain may be too much for recruitment to be purely via short haul. Time will tell, but my point is this is the biggest potential opportunity for well over a year in my opinion.
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Are BA definitely taking white tail cadets straight from finishing CTC and has this been confirmed? Also putting the Gatwick slots to one side, with the PRIAM results am i right in saying that DEP guys/girls had absolutely no chance in 2018?
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Last BA update was talking about possible 2019/2020 for this new cadets to be ready so I think in the short term they only have the fpp cadets that are ready to start in the coming months and I heard, possibly on here that the last bunch of them is going to the line fairly soon
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There is some slight confusion about white tail cadets.
There are approx 60 FPPs waiting, the first few are on TR courses now.
Mid course interviews for CTC self funded cadets took place earlier this year and approx 40 (so I heard) will be recruited with the last of the FPP cadets.
There is also the new “Cadet scheme” where anyone can come fly for BA, as long as you can find £115k under the sofa - these “cadets” are the ones expected to be ready 2019/2020.
There are approx 60 FPPs waiting, the first few are on TR courses now.
Mid course interviews for CTC self funded cadets took place earlier this year and approx 40 (so I heard) will be recruited with the last of the FPP cadets.
There is also the new “Cadet scheme” where anyone can come fly for BA, as long as you can find £115k under the sofa - these “cadets” are the ones expected to be ready 2019/2020.
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Wet leases...that’s not good news....unless it’s just for a few months for BA to acquire aircraft and recruit us lot! I was wondering with most of us on a 3 months notice period, plus BA induction/sims etc....they were going to have be pretty quick at calling us...ready for summer schedule.
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Hi all,
I am a bit of a glass half full kind of a guy so this is my personal take on things.
Cadets, be they FPP or whitetail can go only go onto short haul. They also need about 40 training sectors to get to line check as opposed to about 10 for DEPs. Therefore the ratio of cadets to DEPs has huge effect on the ability of the training department to get pilots onto the line, and consequently how quickly senior A320 FOs can be allowed off short haul and into training for their desired long haul slots.
40 slot pairs may only support 10 short haul aircraft at one end of the spectrum but 40 long haul aircraft at the other. Each long haul aircraft probably requires about 7 Captains and 10 FOs depending on the destinations. BA clearly want to compete with Norwegian so I expect a good percentage of the slots to be long haul ones.
Clearly there are issues such as magicing up aircraft to fill those slots and training the crews in a short period to fill possibly 15 long haul and 6 short haul aircraft. I suspect that a rough figure of 300 pilots will be needed.
All in my opinion. All the best to those in the pool.
I am a bit of a glass half full kind of a guy so this is my personal take on things.
Cadets, be they FPP or whitetail can go only go onto short haul. They also need about 40 training sectors to get to line check as opposed to about 10 for DEPs. Therefore the ratio of cadets to DEPs has huge effect on the ability of the training department to get pilots onto the line, and consequently how quickly senior A320 FOs can be allowed off short haul and into training for their desired long haul slots.
40 slot pairs may only support 10 short haul aircraft at one end of the spectrum but 40 long haul aircraft at the other. Each long haul aircraft probably requires about 7 Captains and 10 FOs depending on the destinations. BA clearly want to compete with Norwegian so I expect a good percentage of the slots to be long haul ones.
Clearly there are issues such as magicing up aircraft to fill those slots and training the crews in a short period to fill possibly 15 long haul and 6 short haul aircraft. I suspect that a rough figure of 300 pilots will be needed.
All in my opinion. All the best to those in the pool.
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I'm sure it has occurred to the recruitment team at BA that there is a looming requirement for more pilots as a result of the Monarch slots / increased retirements / increased part time / JSS etc. At the same time they will be aware that by allowing the hold pool to expire there will be a costly requirement to re-run the entire selection process. I don't believe that outcome is in BA's interests as they would lose access to the immediate supply of quality people that the hold pool was intended to supply. As others have pointed out, relying entirely on cadets risks being unable to deliver the necessary training programme.
Even if recruitment of DEP's is not imminent, some sort of fudge to allow the current hold poolers access to jobs beyond their existing expiry dates looks likely to me.
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BA can’t plan for what remains of Wednesday. I think you underestimate the l evels of ineptitude within middle management in BA. Having served 18years, I will guarantee that at some point it will dawn on them that these new slots require shed loads of drivers; and the flood gates will open again. That coupled with the new rostering system to be introduced in June, which already looks like being a crock of sh1t3, will lead a drive for more pilots.