BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South East
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Flybe then or wherever it was I'll guarantee you were earning way less than you are now for doing the exact same job. So quit whining. If Ba isn't good enough for you then I suggest a different career because really it doesn't get any better.
I got a holdpool email update about 3 weeks ago or so saying no change to email received in Jan. One in Jan said no more DEP's in 2017. Has something completely different occurred with regards to their plans and executing (plucking people out the pool) in 3 weeks??
That 180 happened quick.
That 180 happened quick.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Button Moon
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You've mistaken my comments regarding the degradation of T's and C's that have adversely affected those at the bottom disproportionately as mere whining and your attitude is pretty pompous quite frankly.
Big picture wise, I'm happy at BA. But it doesn't mean I'm not allowed to question the removal of some very big chunks of my T's and C's which have been very costly.
Maybe redirect your aggression away from your fellow colleagues and towards the consistent pokes and prods at our T's and C's as a workforce. Just a thought.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
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If Ba isn't good enough for you then I suggest a different career because really it doesn't get any better.
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Some of this pay is of course recovered but being junior means that you're largely unable to affect your roster and therefore have limited say over how much of that money you actually recover. That's not a grumble, just a fact.
Bidline has also been voted out in favour of the new (and largely unknown) JSS system, which is currently under construction and trial. No one really know what this will look like but from what I've read it appears to be a completely opaque preference system with an emphasis on optimisation of flight crew.
Note I've not mentioned the different Pay Point scales as the updated version was introduced before I joined and therefore have no right to complain, as you rightly say.
I should add that the loss of FPA and Bidline was democratic across the BA flight crew community and as such I accept the result. But it doesn't mean I have to like it.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
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Apologies if anyone thought I was calling them a teenager - I guess I picked a poor analogy. I was suggesting you had the characteristic of believing more senior guys don't know what it like to be junior, and that they didn't have worse terms and conditions than their predecessors. I wasn't suggesting you were like Harry Enfield's Kevin and Perry. I also pointed out that I have pretty much always voted against the BALPA recommendation - that includes pp34 and the introduction of BARP for pilots. I wasn't involved in the JSS vote with the loss of the FPA because I wasn't eligible to vote.
You don't appear to be very happy with your career move into BA though, and I think you're only going to feel more and more upset about it, unless you can somehow make yourself consider all the good stuff and think a bit more positively about everything. That's just my opinion, because I know I couldn't go through life being quite so angry all of the time.
You don't appear to be very happy with your career move into BA though, and I think you're only going to feel more and more upset about it, unless you can somehow make yourself consider all the good stuff and think a bit more positively about everything. That's just my opinion, because I know I couldn't go through life being quite so angry all of the time.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
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The condescension occurring here might be from a real BA pilot. It might be just a bit of manager 'agitation'. However if you are real.... I've got to say whoever hides behind the Hideki Toji pseudonym, that your pomposity is off the scale.
I say that as someone who IS senior, who HAS been junior, and has reached pp24. Stop being so embarrassing to the rest of us. The newbies have taken a hit for the incumbents since before I joined. They have EVERY right to question that.
But as I said. Might be a management Wind up of what is now over 50% of our colleagues on BARP. Or a growing number on PP34 (perhaps one day they'll kick us senior boys so hard, we'll all be retired by Christmas. Posts like yours will certainly fuel that motion!)
So show a bit of respect.
I say that as someone who IS senior, who HAS been junior, and has reached pp24. Stop being so embarrassing to the rest of us. The newbies have taken a hit for the incumbents since before I joined. They have EVERY right to question that.
But as I said. Might be a management Wind up of what is now over 50% of our colleagues on BARP. Or a growing number on PP34 (perhaps one day they'll kick us senior boys so hard, we'll all be retired by Christmas. Posts like yours will certainly fuel that motion!)
So show a bit of respect.
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Right Engine, couldn't have said it better if I tried. Thank you!
GS-Alpha - No apology necessary but I'm not sure who you were referring to re being angry. I can assure you I'm not angry. That's a very unhealthy way to be in this game as you rightly point out. Disappointed and frustrated to see my T's and C's being hacked away at within 5 minutes of signing on the dotted line for nothing really in return, absolutely. But angry, no. I do consider all of the good points, of which there are many, but I refuse to ignore the negatives, which have also been more significant of late. I've worked in other airlines and had another professional career before flying. I'm a normal bloke from a middle class family that spent many years paying off a very large flight training loan. No silver spoon teenager here I can assure you.
GS-Alpha - No apology necessary but I'm not sure who you were referring to re being angry. I can assure you I'm not angry. That's a very unhealthy way to be in this game as you rightly point out. Disappointed and frustrated to see my T's and C's being hacked away at within 5 minutes of signing on the dotted line for nothing really in return, absolutely. But angry, no. I do consider all of the good points, of which there are many, but I refuse to ignore the negatives, which have also been more significant of late. I've worked in other airlines and had another professional career before flying. I'm a normal bloke from a middle class family that spent many years paying off a very large flight training loan. No silver spoon teenager here I can assure you.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: pluto
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This is tedious. I joined Cathay on B scale and I've been a bottom feeder with Big Airways for a long time. No-one forced me to accept either position.
Back to the topic - are they hiring or not?
Back to the topic - are they hiring or not?
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sand free now
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Are you for real ? The arrogance, stupidity and rudeness of your posts are unbelievable. If you can offer guarantees as daft as this one I hope I never fly with you.
Flybe then or wherever it was I'll guarantee you were earning way less than you are now for doing the exact same job. So quit whining.
Without even adjusting for inflation, BA is the lowest paid flying job I've ever had. But I look at the bigger picture and I am much happier here than anywhere I've been before. Money ain't everything.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
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The futures of every single new pilot should never have been used as a bargaining chip in negotiations to protect the rights of a few. It was ultimately a very self serving thing to do from all involved which has ultimately devalued your own jobs as well as everyone else's. As I said I understand the reasons for voting that way and I doubt I would have done any different, but don't now pretend like we have nothing to complain about, you made a decision based on selfish reasons at least now have the balls to own that decision and not slag us off because we dared to question it.
You say you understand the reasons we voted for PP34. If that is the case, please tell me what the alternative was. And what would have happened next had we voted the other way.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South East
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Where pays more? Emirates? Jet2.com? TCX? Norwegian? Ryanair? Easy? the BA package is extremely well publicised and the competition to get a job here is intense. not making excuses for the fall in T&C's but making out like BA is some kind of internment camp is 100% false. it appears that many new joiners are happy to come on here and complain about a job they've been in for only a couple of years, they are probably the same people congratulating themselves on instagram immediately upon starting the job.
Mach 3
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Stratosphere
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Its also worth bearing in mind the environment the "new guys" operate in these days.
I'm closer to 50 than 40. Bought my first house for ~£55K in the 90's when my starting salary was ~£35K.
Ratio: 0.63
Scale that upwards to today where the average cost of housing in my postcode is now ~£740K.
I ought to be making £466K if my earnings had kept pace with house price inflation.
How much would I need in my pension pot to get what the retired 777 BA pilot opposite me gets...as a pension? £3million perhaps?
Many of the Senior guys in my Company argue "they've been there, done that" but, making a gross generalisation, the Golden Years of aviation are no longer so golden.
Many of them also say they know what it was like to be made redundant. But when pressed, their redundancy experience lasted days, and a quick phone call had them walking into another job, in some cases, on the same day as their redundancy!
I've been redundant 3 times in my career and during the last experience which lasted 7 months, had to look as far afield as China in an attempt to try and get a job.
Having said all that, I'm happy with my lot, but the arguments for seniority in this day and age, I no longer have any sympathy for. They're a relic of a bygone age where you worked for one airline for the duration of your career and, IMO, dramatically hold down terms and conditions.
I'm closer to 50 than 40. Bought my first house for ~£55K in the 90's when my starting salary was ~£35K.
Ratio: 0.63
Scale that upwards to today where the average cost of housing in my postcode is now ~£740K.
I ought to be making £466K if my earnings had kept pace with house price inflation.
How much would I need in my pension pot to get what the retired 777 BA pilot opposite me gets...as a pension? £3million perhaps?
Many of the Senior guys in my Company argue "they've been there, done that" but, making a gross generalisation, the Golden Years of aviation are no longer so golden.
Many of them also say they know what it was like to be made redundant. But when pressed, their redundancy experience lasted days, and a quick phone call had them walking into another job, in some cases, on the same day as their redundancy!
I've been redundant 3 times in my career and during the last experience which lasted 7 months, had to look as far afield as China in an attempt to try and get a job.
Having said all that, I'm happy with my lot, but the arguments for seniority in this day and age, I no longer have any sympathy for. They're a relic of a bygone age where you worked for one airline for the duration of your career and, IMO, dramatically hold down terms and conditions.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: uk
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We live in a world where P2F dictates the entry point for pilots and BA competes with both low-cost airlines and the ME carriers.
The pay and conditions for all of us has deteriorated relative to previous generations and the votes (arguably poorly managed and/or presented admittedly) which have led to a different pension scheme and starter rates were simply unavoidable. Those of us who have been with the airline for many years have seen some tough times and campaigned hard for the best T&Cs possible so to hear such negativity from those who've just joined is a little sad at best.
You really cannot blame the "senior" pilots for the interminable race to the bottom in the airline industry. In fact, i'd argue that the reverse is true!
Had BA pilots not shown a pragmatic approach and been willing to accept change would BA have been in a position to recruit onto the mainline seniority list.
And the argument holds true that if you've just joined without knowledge of BLR's and T&Cs, and are very disappointed, then now is the time to leave before becoming truly embittered.
Join Date: May 2002
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What you really wanted was a DEC with a decent company on good pay. Have you considered Norwegian? Good luck with that!
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Its also worth bearing in mind the environment the "new guys" operate in these days.
I'm closer to 50 than 40. Bought my first house for ~£55K in the 90's when my starting salary was ~£35K.
Ratio: 0.63
Scale that upwards to today where the average cost of housing in my postcode is now ~£740K.
I ought to be making £466K if my earnings had kept pace with house price inflation.
How much would I need in my pension pot to get what the retired 777 BA pilot opposite me gets...as a pension? £3million perhaps?
Many of the Senior guys in my Company argue "they've been there, done that" but, making a gross generalisation, the Golden Years of aviation are no longer so golden.
Many of them also say they know what it was like to be made redundant. But when pressed, their redundancy experience lasted days, and a quick phone call had them walking into another job, in some cases, on the same day as their redundancy!
I've been redundant 3 times in my career and during the last experience which lasted 7 months, had to look as far afield as China in an attempt to try and get a job.
Having said all that, I'm happy with my lot, but the arguments for seniority in this day and age, I no longer have any sympathy for. They're a relic of a bygone age where you worked for one airline for the duration of your career and, IMO, dramatically hold down terms and conditions.
I'm closer to 50 than 40. Bought my first house for ~£55K in the 90's when my starting salary was ~£35K.
Ratio: 0.63
Scale that upwards to today where the average cost of housing in my postcode is now ~£740K.
I ought to be making £466K if my earnings had kept pace with house price inflation.
How much would I need in my pension pot to get what the retired 777 BA pilot opposite me gets...as a pension? £3million perhaps?
Many of the Senior guys in my Company argue "they've been there, done that" but, making a gross generalisation, the Golden Years of aviation are no longer so golden.
Many of them also say they know what it was like to be made redundant. But when pressed, their redundancy experience lasted days, and a quick phone call had them walking into another job, in some cases, on the same day as their redundancy!
I've been redundant 3 times in my career and during the last experience which lasted 7 months, had to look as far afield as China in an attempt to try and get a job.
Having said all that, I'm happy with my lot, but the arguments for seniority in this day and age, I no longer have any sympathy for. They're a relic of a bygone age where you worked for one airline for the duration of your career and, IMO, dramatically hold down terms and conditions.