BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Join Date: Dec 2003
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To All the Hold-Poolers,
Hang in there guys and stay strong; I know a round of expirations is imminent.
Frustration does not even come close to explaining it I know, but trust me, persevere with it. Re-apply if you need to, suck up the hold pool again (and again, and again...). Work out some way of steadying your nerve at each stage. If it is what you want, you will get there.
It is acknowledged as a ridiculous system from pretty much every department except HR, who appear to be the controlling element.
The reward does out weigh the pain, however, if an equally good job offer comes along in the meantime and you NEED to get out of where you are: take it. I would probably take a definite over a maybe. The BA process has a habit of opening up reasonably regularly; the others may not.
I have been where you guys are now (more than once). The hardest bit was not the hold pool; the hardest bit was during a re-application when mates who previously passed, failed. That was tough.
Good luck and really hope it all pans out.
Hang in there guys and stay strong; I know a round of expirations is imminent.
Frustration does not even come close to explaining it I know, but trust me, persevere with it. Re-apply if you need to, suck up the hold pool again (and again, and again...). Work out some way of steadying your nerve at each stage. If it is what you want, you will get there.
It is acknowledged as a ridiculous system from pretty much every department except HR, who appear to be the controlling element.
The reward does out weigh the pain, however, if an equally good job offer comes along in the meantime and you NEED to get out of where you are: take it. I would probably take a definite over a maybe. The BA process has a habit of opening up reasonably regularly; the others may not.
I have been where you guys are now (more than once). The hardest bit was not the hold pool; the hardest bit was during a re-application when mates who previously passed, failed. That was tough.
Good luck and really hope it all pans out.
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Hold Pool
Nothing new here - after 18 months, people sank in 2009. Recruitment opened again mid 2010.
After 18 months, people sank in 2013 (myself included). Recruitment opened again in late 2014. Those previous 'swimmers' were all 'fast-tracked,' however it was back to Day 1.
LC was a good guy about it however being a professional, wouldn't share his honest opinion on the matter (obviously). Candidates, pilot recruitment & flight operations have to deal with the psychometric profiling piff-paff being line fed to HR, who appear to have the final say. 'It's the way that it's always been done at BA' was the common chorus that I heard at the time. After 12 months swimming you were on the cusp of not being the same person that was assessed. After 18 months you were deserving of a straight jacket!!
The second time around, someone must have seriously screwed up the numbers because with less than 12 months of 'sinking' and the horizon looking extremely bleak for DEPs, recruitment went warp factor 10!
I genuinely hope no one needs to go through this again. However I expect it means little to the powers that be. BA can open DEP recruitment at any stage and have an influx of applications.
After 18 months, people sank in 2013 (myself included). Recruitment opened again in late 2014. Those previous 'swimmers' were all 'fast-tracked,' however it was back to Day 1.
LC was a good guy about it however being a professional, wouldn't share his honest opinion on the matter (obviously). Candidates, pilot recruitment & flight operations have to deal with the psychometric profiling piff-paff being line fed to HR, who appear to have the final say. 'It's the way that it's always been done at BA' was the common chorus that I heard at the time. After 12 months swimming you were on the cusp of not being the same person that was assessed. After 18 months you were deserving of a straight jacket!!
The second time around, someone must have seriously screwed up the numbers because with less than 12 months of 'sinking' and the horizon looking extremely bleak for DEPs, recruitment went warp factor 10!
I genuinely hope no one needs to go through this again. However I expect it means little to the powers that be. BA can open DEP recruitment at any stage and have an influx of applications.
Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 21st Apr 2017 at 16:42.
Join Date: Apr 2017
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To clarify; BA is now offering Voluntary Unpaid Time Off in the Month of June for the B744. So not voluntary redundancy but just a few weeks extra unpaid leave in the summer for those that want it. Limited places available... Hope this helps.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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I am expiring end of October. Seeing as my sim buddy started his TR in February (he is 320 rated though) just before the slowdown, I'm guessing I'll be one of the first to drown. Still keeping my fingers crossed for a Jan/Feb 2018 start date.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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The ten year suspension of retirements, due to increased Compulsory Retirement Age, (CRA) ended n Oct 2016. I have no idea why any floodgate should open in 2017? It should already have started.
Lots of unpaid voluntary leave available apparently!
Lots of unpaid voluntary leave available apparently!
I have no idea why any floodgate should open in 2017? It should already have started.
Join Date: May 2004
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There is unpaid leave available on several fleets this summer. Mostly for F/Os.
According to the Balpa age demo-graphic figures there is a bit of a bulge of retirements forecast around 2020.
However, a large number of the top 1500 pilots are aged around 50. The real floodgates open in about 15-20 years, but who knows what will be left of BA by then.....
All this assumes every pilot working to 65 and no part time or expansion.
According to the Balpa age demo-graphic figures there is a bit of a bulge of retirements forecast around 2020.
However, a large number of the top 1500 pilots are aged around 50. The real floodgates open in about 15-20 years, but who knows what will be left of BA by then.....
All this assumes every pilot working to 65 and no part time or expansion.
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Company sources are saying a big tranche in 2019 AND 2020. However that's of little comfort to the guys trying to stay afloat into 2018. My personal opinion is that there'll be a large take up of the aspirational part time contracts. There's only one new 787 this year, it was always going to be quiet. Things will pick up again from next year, no need for alarm.
I think that all the numbers will change when NAPS is closed down in the next 2-3 years. Why would a late 50s Captain keep working if it's going to have no effect on his pension? I can see a huge number of retirements when the pension situation changes.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Flap62
Because they simply can't live without their perceived 'status'!
Cullin Hills
Anyone with an (more than one!) ex-wife, is likely to have a younger partner, and quite possibly a 'new' family too. - Expensive!
Very unlikely, pension changes will have any significant effect on retirements IMVHO!
Why would a late 50s Captain keep working if it's going to have no effect on his pension?
Cullin Hills
Anyone with an (more than one!) ex-wife, is likely to have a younger partner, and quite possibly a 'new' family too. - Expensive!
Very unlikely, pension changes will have any significant effect on retirements IMVHO!
I suspect it's v rarely status that alone delays retirements beyond 55 these days, it's more likely a conservative ( small 'c') approach to life. As you get older you find crystal balls aren't all they are cracked up to be and IMHO I think in this day and age you need to be a very careful voluntarily dumping yourself out of the job market with up to 10 more potential years to run.
NAPS ain't bad but it's not the be all and end all, especially for those who joined as DEPs and still have dependant kids . .. I think even a single pilot or those of us married only once, and still married look at the sums these days and go "ummm, do I really want to jettison another 10 years of income" when we don't know what interest rates, inflation etc are going to do.
Like you I don't think NAPS closure itself will be an issue, it's more likely to be another tweak in pensions legislation.
NAPS ain't bad but it's not the be all and end all, especially for those who joined as DEPs and still have dependant kids . .. I think even a single pilot or those of us married only once, and still married look at the sums these days and go "ummm, do I really want to jettison another 10 years of income" when we don't know what interest rates, inflation etc are going to do.
Like you I don't think NAPS closure itself will be an issue, it's more likely to be another tweak in pensions legislation.
Last edited by wiggy; 23rd Apr 2017 at 13:20.
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"Floodgates" of retirement are an illusion. With advancing age, the natural attrition smooths out the process. In the last 5-10 years of any pilot groups working life, a greater proportion will become medically unfit. Some will reduce their working footprint by such vehicles as part time working. A few will avail themselves of other opportunities. By the time that group reaches age 65 any projection of a " flood" or "bulge" is usually little more than a trickle.
Despite the perceived lure of retirement, for many people it focuses the mind on the limited timescale to achieve one final fiscal sprint. There is also the realisation that The job forces you to keep active, and for many that becomes an important motivator. Pilots at this end of their careers are also likely to be enjoying the best of the respective terms & conditions on offer, and would likely want to enjoy that for as long as possible.
When retirement was typically 55 it was more likely that a greater proportion of any given group would achieve that milestone. A retirement bulge (although still rare) was more conceivable. A decade of more gradual attrition simply provides for a much more gradual slope. Add to that improvements in maintaining medical certification standards, and the process becomes even smoother still.
In summary, retirements are a false hope. The real opportunities are going to come from economic growth.
Despite the perceived lure of retirement, for many people it focuses the mind on the limited timescale to achieve one final fiscal sprint. There is also the realisation that The job forces you to keep active, and for many that becomes an important motivator. Pilots at this end of their careers are also likely to be enjoying the best of the respective terms & conditions on offer, and would likely want to enjoy that for as long as possible.
When retirement was typically 55 it was more likely that a greater proportion of any given group would achieve that milestone. A retirement bulge (although still rare) was more conceivable. A decade of more gradual attrition simply provides for a much more gradual slope. Add to that improvements in maintaining medical certification standards, and the process becomes even smoother still.
In summary, retirements are a false hope. The real opportunities are going to come from economic growth.
I take the point that these things might smooth out bulges but retirement, decrease in medical fitness, part time options, they still all lead down one sure path: Recruitment.
"A rose by any other name"....
"A rose by any other name"....
Join Date: May 2009
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Rubbish. Early retirements will increase due to the extreme amount of flying current day pilots do. It's too much and the love is lost. I predict many pilots bailing out early on the career. The question is do they go for the part time option or leave all together. Part time has my vote. This is particularly apparent in BA. I often fly with captains who are part time, wanting it or close to giving up all together.