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Accurate
I have never really read this thread , whilst flicking through I found this post
A very interesting honest opinion on BA , obviously not the golden handshake anymore
A very interesting honest opinion on BA , obviously not the golden handshake anymore
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I'd like to take issue with a couple of points here
1) You'll fly 800hrs+ on SH. Completely incorrect as far as my experience goes. 600 hours in the last twelve calendar months. Others I speak to have averaged around 700*
2) Spending over three and a half hours on a turnaround? Never done it, not once. The maximum I've had is maybe an hour to an hour and a half. Maybe there are duties with such a turnaround hidden somewhere but they're absolutely not frequent.
3) The relationship with cabin crew. Again I found this to be a complete over exaggeration, yes there are some pissed off guys and gals but the amount of times they cause you a problem is minimal. You don't get to form much of a relationship with them as they are always swapping aircraft at Heathrow but that's the nature of the beast, aside from that I've noticed no real difference in the relationship between Flightdeck and cabin crew to the other large airlines I've worked for. There is some genuine banter to be had out there on the line, be in no doubt.
4) My sample size is admittedly limited (as usually I'm on public transport to the local hotels but have done a few reserve periods now with a hire car in the car park) but, again, not once have I had to wait 45 minutes. I think the longest wait has been 5-10 minutes. Yes with some late finishes too.
I've said it before but there are some gross over exaggerations on pprune. It seems to be think of the worst case scenario you can imagine (which I admit sometimes does occur) and make out like it is something that happens all the time (it doesn't). You really have to take the postings on here with a large grain of salt. Amigo South's post was written almost a year before I joined and being honest, I can't vouch for what he's said as regards day to day life here. There are some grains of truth in there but if you're someone who sweats the small stuff and spends their life being overwhelmingly negative then no doubt that post will chime with you. If you take it as it comes you'll see that the things mentioned happen infrequently enough for you not to be bothered by them.
I'm sat writing this on eight straight days off by the way. It's not leave and it's not a DFW. Yes I've done a couple of 6 on 2 off 6 ons in the past, but you take the rough with the smooth and - more importantly - try getting eight days off at Ryanair or easyJet as part of your normal pattern. I've got another seven day block of days off next month too, again it's not holiday. This isn't a willy waving contest either, it's just to demonstrate and highlight the level of roster control you can get at BA (yes even on short-haul and even when you're 80% away from the top of the list).
*Flight time as a measure of workload in BA is notoriously inaccurate.
1) You'll fly 800hrs+ on SH. Completely incorrect as far as my experience goes. 600 hours in the last twelve calendar months. Others I speak to have averaged around 700*
2) Spending over three and a half hours on a turnaround? Never done it, not once. The maximum I've had is maybe an hour to an hour and a half. Maybe there are duties with such a turnaround hidden somewhere but they're absolutely not frequent.
3) The relationship with cabin crew. Again I found this to be a complete over exaggeration, yes there are some pissed off guys and gals but the amount of times they cause you a problem is minimal. You don't get to form much of a relationship with them as they are always swapping aircraft at Heathrow but that's the nature of the beast, aside from that I've noticed no real difference in the relationship between Flightdeck and cabin crew to the other large airlines I've worked for. There is some genuine banter to be had out there on the line, be in no doubt.
4) My sample size is admittedly limited (as usually I'm on public transport to the local hotels but have done a few reserve periods now with a hire car in the car park) but, again, not once have I had to wait 45 minutes. I think the longest wait has been 5-10 minutes. Yes with some late finishes too.
I've said it before but there are some gross over exaggerations on pprune. It seems to be think of the worst case scenario you can imagine (which I admit sometimes does occur) and make out like it is something that happens all the time (it doesn't). You really have to take the postings on here with a large grain of salt. Amigo South's post was written almost a year before I joined and being honest, I can't vouch for what he's said as regards day to day life here. There are some grains of truth in there but if you're someone who sweats the small stuff and spends their life being overwhelmingly negative then no doubt that post will chime with you. If you take it as it comes you'll see that the things mentioned happen infrequently enough for you not to be bothered by them.
I'm sat writing this on eight straight days off by the way. It's not leave and it's not a DFW. Yes I've done a couple of 6 on 2 off 6 ons in the past, but you take the rough with the smooth and - more importantly - try getting eight days off at Ryanair or easyJet as part of your normal pattern. I've got another seven day block of days off next month too, again it's not holiday. This isn't a willy waving contest either, it's just to demonstrate and highlight the level of roster control you can get at BA (yes even on short-haul and even when you're 80% away from the top of the list).
*Flight time as a measure of workload in BA is notoriously inaccurate.
Last edited by RexBanner; 5th Apr 2017 at 22:40.
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Rumour (and it's purely that) that I heard was that some people were told they are no longer in the pool. Can anyone confirm that or otherwise?
This could have been the very last people to gain entry to the pool, essentially won't be required?
Surely that's not true?
This could have been the very last people to gain entry to the pool, essentially won't be required?
Surely that's not true?
Frankly I can't think of a scenario where this would make any sense for BA. Even if the swimmers at the back really are unlikely to be needed, surely better to keep them in the pool anyway in case requirements change (which as we know, they frequently do).
As recruitment have said to me themselves, they've spent a lot of time and money getting us through assessment, so scrapping us (at any stage) does no-one any favours.
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Any idea when he/she joined (and was supposedly dismissed from) the pool?
Frankly I can't think of a scenario where this would make any sense for BA. Even if the swimmers at the back really are unlikely to be needed, surely better to keep them in the pool anyway in case requirements change (which as we know, they frequently do).
As recruitment have said to me themselves, they've spent a lot of time and money getting us through assessment, so scrapping us (at any stage) does no-one any favours.
Frankly I can't think of a scenario where this would make any sense for BA. Even if the swimmers at the back really are unlikely to be needed, surely better to keep them in the pool anyway in case requirements change (which as we know, they frequently do).
As recruitment have said to me themselves, they've spent a lot of time and money getting us through assessment, so scrapping us (at any stage) does no-one any favours.
1) You'll fly 800hrs+ on SH. Completely incorrect as far as my experience goes. 600 hours in the last twelve calendar months. Others I speak to have averaged around 700*
Problem is Rex is trying square what you've experienced with the fact on another forum some folk are regularly pushing how awful SH rosters and workload is under EASA rules. Certainly at the moment isn't it also fair to say that one's position on the seniority list can make a tremendous difference to your perceptions of BA? I also know there are ways of being say 80% off the top low hours but there's often a trade off involved that some people possibly wouldn't want to entertain (e.g the unpredictability of being time assignable as a blind line holder or just the total unpredictability of reserve).
I do happen to know from conversation there are still some very unhappy SH (and LH) bunnies out there, so maybe on average workload is somewhere between yours and what amigo south wrote a while back
That aside I do agree with a lot of your other points, and frame of mind and expectation comes into it.
Last edited by wiggy; 6th Apr 2017 at 07:43.
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Thing is Wiggy I just don't recognise this whole argument that shorthaul is awful. Yes there are bits that leave a bit to be desired but nowhere nowadays is a utopia. I'm wondering how much is being written by people who've lost touch with reality. We get plenty of leave compared to other places so if you get creative, virtually every other month you can have a nice block of time off.
If you want to measure SH against LH and take the point of view that because SH isn't as good as LH then that makes SH awful then as far as I'm concerned that's just a state of mind. If you're like me and you're staring down the barrel of another four years of it, then you begin to see the positives and there are quite a few. You just never hear of them on here because that's not the agenda on display. I've worked for a few airlines now and I can categorically say that this is the best overall. You can get some significant time off but that might mean you work harder on your days on duty. I don't see a problem with that.
(Maybe part of my way of thinking is that I've seen the worst this industry has to offer, which is freezing your arse off out in the arse end of Europe flying with grizzled CRM free captains on multiple 12hr+ four sector days off a 05:00AM report on repeat with no coffee provided, a single mouldy sandwich for crewfood and being paid peanuts.)
If you want to measure SH against LH and take the point of view that because SH isn't as good as LH then that makes SH awful then as far as I'm concerned that's just a state of mind. If you're like me and you're staring down the barrel of another four years of it, then you begin to see the positives and there are quite a few. You just never hear of them on here because that's not the agenda on display. I've worked for a few airlines now and I can categorically say that this is the best overall. You can get some significant time off but that might mean you work harder on your days on duty. I don't see a problem with that.
(Maybe part of my way of thinking is that I've seen the worst this industry has to offer, which is freezing your arse off out in the arse end of Europe flying with grizzled CRM free captains on multiple 12hr+ four sector days off a 05:00AM report on repeat with no coffee provided, a single mouldy sandwich for crewfood and being paid peanuts.)
Last edited by RexBanner; 6th Apr 2017 at 07:50.
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Towards the top of the list and if you can avoid repeated earlies, shorthaul isn't too bad. Maximum credit coupled with minimum days at work on lates only is how to bid. However, you need to be towards the top of the list to assure that.
The change to EASA scheduling means there are some nasty early rotations out there. I think this particular gem has gone now but from an early report, OSL-LHR-KEF-LHR anyone? Legal perhaps but not sensible through the disaster area that is LHR with its holding and waiting for parking/catering/tugs/you-name-it. I have heard of delights of Corfu and back followed by a European nightstop too so they're still out there.
Lates were largely untouched as the changes from CAA to EASA scheduling were pretty minimal for them.
The change to EASA scheduling means there are some nasty early rotations out there. I think this particular gem has gone now but from an early report, OSL-LHR-KEF-LHR anyone? Legal perhaps but not sensible through the disaster area that is LHR with its holding and waiting for parking/catering/tugs/you-name-it. I have heard of delights of Corfu and back followed by a European nightstop too so they're still out there.
Lates were largely untouched as the changes from CAA to EASA scheduling were pretty minimal for them.
I think that's all fair comment Rex..
I think currently there is a lot of angst about how the company are picking off items of T&Cs and quite where T&Cs will be in 5-10 years time, which is perhaps not helping the general frame of mind of many in the current workforce.
I would certainly agree there are a few who seem to generate a lot of "negative waves"...and I have my concerns looking forward but yes, there are worse places to work.
I think currently there is a lot of angst about how the company are picking off items of T&Cs and quite where T&Cs will be in 5-10 years time, which is perhaps not helping the general frame of mind of many in the current workforce.
I would certainly agree there are a few who seem to generate a lot of "negative waves"...and I have my concerns looking forward but yes, there are worse places to work.
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Well written RexBanner, as a fellow SH'er who joined from a different Northern UK airline. I fully agree with your writeup. I do more hours then yourself (around 800ish), but they are the result of a lot of high credit trips/days to maximise my days off.
If I have to compare my life with the other airline I used to work for before I joined. BA is a walk in the park, so much control about ones roster, the roster stability which is just amazing (0 roster changes since joining compared to 92% roster disruption a month (early to late or visa versa a day before the duty resulting in not being able to plan anything on a working day) at the previous when I worked there) and being treated like a professional instead of a cost.
But having said that I guess everybody is different. At my previous lot people living local to the bases thought it was the best job they could wish for, working hard in the summer but only doing standbys in the winter. I for one prefer the BA system were the work is distributed more evenly over the year, you do a block of 21 reserve/stby days a year and you control your own rooster which as you say rather often results in big blocks of off days (sometimes with the help of a PBW) on which you can explore the world with staff travel. At the same time you always get as Wiggy says, a (luckily only a very) few who seem to generate a lot of "negative waves" like Amigo South who aren't happy about things, however there is a reason they joined and to often the reason is they weren't happy about their previous airline either.
If I have to compare my life with the other airline I used to work for before I joined. BA is a walk in the park, so much control about ones roster, the roster stability which is just amazing (0 roster changes since joining compared to 92% roster disruption a month (early to late or visa versa a day before the duty resulting in not being able to plan anything on a working day) at the previous when I worked there) and being treated like a professional instead of a cost.
But having said that I guess everybody is different. At my previous lot people living local to the bases thought it was the best job they could wish for, working hard in the summer but only doing standbys in the winter. I for one prefer the BA system were the work is distributed more evenly over the year, you do a block of 21 reserve/stby days a year and you control your own rooster which as you say rather often results in big blocks of off days (sometimes with the help of a PBW) on which you can explore the world with staff travel. At the same time you always get as Wiggy says, a (luckily only a very) few who seem to generate a lot of "negative waves" like Amigo South who aren't happy about things, however there is a reason they joined and to often the reason is they weren't happy about their previous airline either.
Last edited by Jumbo2; 6th Apr 2017 at 08:33.
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Gross generalisation of course, but the main grumbles seem to come from people who don't know what the rest of the world is like
I would take 5/4/5/3 right now at BA. But that would mean I'd be doing about 15 days less at work each year!
At the risk of thread drift: I think people need to be a bit careful about completely dismissing the "moaners" at BA to much. We're seeing a increasing slide in T&Cs, and whilst no doubt BA is still better than some outfits it's a question of for how long?
BA management style has changed in the last few years, a recent event shows they are now seem willing to unilaterally impose changes on T&Cs, and a lot of the extras that made the package attractive are slowly being nibbled away at.
So whilst I would say don't let the grumblers wear you down their are some (IMHO) valid gripes out there and the danger of insisting in seeing BA through rose tinted glasses now is that in 10-15 years times you could just end working at a bigger version of the company you just escaped from.
BA management style has changed in the last few years, a recent event shows they are now seem willing to unilaterally impose changes on T&Cs, and a lot of the extras that made the package attractive are slowly being nibbled away at.
So whilst I would say don't let the grumblers wear you down their are some (IMHO) valid gripes out there and the danger of insisting in seeing BA through rose tinted glasses now is that in 10-15 years times you could just end working at a bigger version of the company you just escaped from.
Last edited by wiggy; 7th Apr 2017 at 09:25.
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I too am very happy as a shorthauler at BA, like others have said it has it's great points and some not so good ones, like Rex I don't recognise the points raised on the "cut and paisted" post above.
Wiggy raises some interesting points and I think he is right, unfortunately every business in every field is about trying to cut costs and they try and do that by reducing T&Cs it's a race to the bottom in every industry and who knows where it will end. I am by no means a socialist (far from it) but I do think that capitalism needs a bit of a reboot and the rights of workers should be the most important factor, unfortunately I don't see it happening.
Wiggy raises some interesting points and I think he is right, unfortunately every business in every field is about trying to cut costs and they try and do that by reducing T&Cs it's a race to the bottom in every industry and who knows where it will end. I am by no means a socialist (far from it) but I do think that capitalism needs a bit of a reboot and the rights of workers should be the most important factor, unfortunately I don't see it happening.
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Events
Do any of you guys worry that with current world events this hold pool may never drain? It seems ambitious that with what is going on it's likely for expansion and a willingness for people to travel, seems one bad news story after another! Hopefully me being a pessimist but what are your thoughts?
I must admit I'm not as confident as I was even 3-4 weeks ago. I'm bus rated, but amongst the last into the pool.
The big "red flags" for me are the FPP grads having their A320 courses put back to September and into 2018. That's going to take a big dent out of the vacancies for 2018, both rated and non. That, and the ongoing cost cutting going on under Cruz, I think they are going to sweat the assets (pilots) as much as they can, with little comeback. Pilots aren't going to leave, and other IAG companies can take the edge off any strike action.
Some reassurance from BA would be nice over the next few weeks. I can only imagine how the non rated swimmers approaching 18 months must be feeling.
The big "red flags" for me are the FPP grads having their A320 courses put back to September and into 2018. That's going to take a big dent out of the vacancies for 2018, both rated and non. That, and the ongoing cost cutting going on under Cruz, I think they are going to sweat the assets (pilots) as much as they can, with little comeback. Pilots aren't going to leave, and other IAG companies can take the edge off any strike action.
Some reassurance from BA would be nice over the next few weeks. I can only imagine how the non rated swimmers approaching 18 months must be feeling.
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FPP only fills spaces in shorthaul. There is still LH aircraft arriving in 2018. Just stay positive about it however I would also recommend getting on with your current career. male the most of that then you are covering both bases. 😊
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I couldn't agree more, because of the sticking up for our terms and conditions, and the mature attitude of BALPA (compared to some foreign pilot unions) it's still one of the (if not the) best (and very/most successful) airline to work for in the U.K.
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I would say the best has to be Thomson , very successful , legacy T&Cs , regional base for LH , just floats along in the background .
Just a shame about the time for command which is understandable but also the not so good starting conditions
Just a shame about the time for command which is understandable but also the not so good starting conditions
