BA Direct Entry Pilot.
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EASA has absolutely no basis in common sense. I think everyone accepts that?
However the back to back restrictions may at least have been partially based in a desire to protect folks from themselves? For example, the back to back to back to back to back merchants. Who have commuting/UK income tax issues.
It's also the case that many in BA, don't like back to backs. BA MAY have allowed them, (as they do for cabin crew) had they been given a free hand to impose them on all.
My personal view is that the current arrangements are about right?
However the back to back restrictions may at least have been partially based in a desire to protect folks from themselves? For example, the back to back to back to back to back merchants. Who have commuting/UK income tax issues.
It's also the case that many in BA, don't like back to backs. BA MAY have allowed them, (as they do for cabin crew) had they been given a free hand to impose them on all.
My personal view is that the current arrangements are about right?
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Thanks guys for the replies as to why BA don't do fixed links. It's hard to think that with the sophistication levels of rostering softwares out there it shouldn't be too hard to achieve.
' Morning all (note to self: must get out more)...
4468
(At the danger of staying off topic, though perhaps relevant as history).
As you say rightly EASA often makes no sense, the back to backs being a classic example: The "protect folks from themselves", was a popular comment from those who didn't want them/do them (and dare I say it somewhat parent > child in tone) but as somebody else pointed out earlier in the thread some individuals genuinely found a back to back, even across the pond, easier than cross the pond and back, two days off, then stateside again (I certainly found it easier and mea culpa, even I was guilty of b2b2b'ing suitable trips a few times....it's horses for courses). Back to backs are now an option for roster control that has been reduced to pilots due EASA, so be it. Above all I'd certainly agree with you that I wouldn't want them forced on anyone.
If you want a personal take on this from a commuter I just work around the changes and FWIW whilst the change has made commuting slightly more frequent some months it's not a big deal, as for tax "issues"...? Of course a very large number of those described as "commuters" do live in the UK - Manchester, Glasgow, Edinburgh, etc.
Anyhow, all water under the bridge, perhaps for the sake of prospective DEPs we should move on..
n w
I think if you saw the various industrial agreements in play you'd probably have a better handle on why even the most sophisticated software would struggle to produce economical fixed links.
4468
(At the danger of staying off topic, though perhaps relevant as history).
However the back to back restrictions may at least have been partially based in a desire to protect folks from themselves? For example, the back to back to back to back to back merchants. Who have commuting/UK income tax issues.
If you want a personal take on this from a commuter I just work around the changes and FWIW whilst the change has made commuting slightly more frequent some months it's not a big deal, as for tax "issues"...? Of course a very large number of those described as "commuters" do live in the UK - Manchester, Glasgow, Edinburgh, etc.
Anyhow, all water under the bridge, perhaps for the sake of prospective DEPs we should move on..
n w
Thanks guys for the replies as to why BA don't do fixed links. It's hard to think that with the sophistication levels of rostering softwares out there it shouldn't be too hard to achieve
Last edited by wiggy; 10th Oct 2016 at 10:03.
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BA has a lot of connecting traffic onto short haul plus LHR can be subject to delays. You'll often see equipment swaps between the 319, 320 and 321 even up to a few hours before departure as passengers miss connections, aircraft go tech, late inbounds etc. I think BA's reasoning is to keep the aircraft allocations as fluid as possible to try to mitigate delays and optimise seating availability otherwise you'd have a cascading problem. Yes it means longer duty days but that's the nature of the beast. Revenue Management will always sell to a set aircraft type but these can change once the flight enters operational control. Thats one of the advantages of the A320 family - flexibility.
Then of course there's the different union agreements. It's complex!
Then of course there's the different union agreements. It's complex!
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Conversely, you will also enjoy the experience of arriving late. (Normality at home base!) Then doing a 'tail to tail' transfer between aircraft and terminals across the campus. To arrive at the next aircraft at ETD +10, with cabin crew there you have never met, passengers all boarded for the past 25 minutes, and a despatcher standing with a load sheet to sign, and itching to close the door!
You then have the joy of explaining to the customers what happened, because they all saw with their own eyes it was YOU and your colleague that were holding up their departure!
It's either boredom, or bedlam. There seems little in between.
You then have the joy of explaining to the customers what happened, because they all saw with their own eyes it was YOU and your colleague that were holding up their departure!
It's either boredom, or bedlam. There seems little in between.
Last edited by 4468; 10th Oct 2016 at 14:29.
4468,
Boredom, or bedlam - so very true.
The lack of fixed-links (or really long links) on S/H does not cost the company any money (since the last change in how credit was calculated), but it gives the company much more flexibility. As mentioned above (somewhere) it almost offers a firebreak to ensure that crews get back on track. Admittedly, BA did reduce the number and length of these breaks, but it was still rather tedious to have to sit about for 2-3 hours waiting for your next link.
Gypsy tours have been a HUGE annoyance for pilots for as long as I was on the airbus fleet. It is no exaggeration for pilots to do 12 sectors with at least 10 different sets of cabin crew. Another huge bug-bear would also be that often the cabin crew were only doing a single sector out and a single sector back - sometimes even with a lay-over day in between.
Oh the joy to be back on L/H and only have to do one out, time off and one back!!!
Boredom, or bedlam - so very true.
The lack of fixed-links (or really long links) on S/H does not cost the company any money (since the last change in how credit was calculated), but it gives the company much more flexibility. As mentioned above (somewhere) it almost offers a firebreak to ensure that crews get back on track. Admittedly, BA did reduce the number and length of these breaks, but it was still rather tedious to have to sit about for 2-3 hours waiting for your next link.
Gypsy tours have been a HUGE annoyance for pilots for as long as I was on the airbus fleet. It is no exaggeration for pilots to do 12 sectors with at least 10 different sets of cabin crew. Another huge bug-bear would also be that often the cabin crew were only doing a single sector out and a single sector back - sometimes even with a lay-over day in between.
Oh the joy to be back on L/H and only have to do one out, time off and one back!!!
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Nuclear Weapon
I think you have hit an important nail upon its head and to give credit to Wiggy and GS-Apha - a sentiment that has been echoed before.
I think someone said previously in this thread "BA is very easy to join for the wrong reasons". To think about that for a second. Pilots are terrible for dining from the rumour table. There has always been a perception that BA is utopia and the supply to the company has mainly been based off a self feeding association with this idea. Those within BA from the old days had been in so long they did not know otherwise - how bad, or how sometimes it were better elsewhere. That has to be said in balance.
BA now has an unprecedented level of new people joining and these preconceptions are being rent usunder, not least by some recent unprecedented ways in which the company is approaching its obligations on indistrial agreements.
This public airing of introspection is not a bad thing, but a healthy thing, not based on sweeping generalisation that "its BA". So, before joining, strip away any preconceptions, treat it as Joe blogs airlines and do an appraisal.
You will be for the moment well paid - at the top of the uk tree for first officers. You will be relatively secure. You will work for a company that still is slightly Victorian on its interpretation of how to be soft and friendly towards employees (it's working on that one I hear). But you will be working for a company that works you foot to the floor, full octane. No one despite all the posturing can deny that at the moment. There is no escaping that. And do not make the mistake many has made that thinking more money makes for a better coffin. Judge for yourself, no one else. Its your life, no one else's of course. The situation is changing, bare that in mind. Be astute and judge for its merits and warts in honesty and you won't be disappointed. And be aware there are subtle changed that foretell changes no one can know, but has many wondering.
It's a complicated job to assess and not at all a basket place to apply for. It's an all or nothing sort of place. Marmite. I've not had a great impression so far but that's not to say I've lost complete faith already. As said, I'm still working hard to keep my chin up not least because I placed so much on coming here, but I'm no fool and if it stops working for me long term, I will seek plan B.1.2
I think you have hit an important nail upon its head and to give credit to Wiggy and GS-Apha - a sentiment that has been echoed before.
I think someone said previously in this thread "BA is very easy to join for the wrong reasons". To think about that for a second. Pilots are terrible for dining from the rumour table. There has always been a perception that BA is utopia and the supply to the company has mainly been based off a self feeding association with this idea. Those within BA from the old days had been in so long they did not know otherwise - how bad, or how sometimes it were better elsewhere. That has to be said in balance.
BA now has an unprecedented level of new people joining and these preconceptions are being rent usunder, not least by some recent unprecedented ways in which the company is approaching its obligations on indistrial agreements.
This public airing of introspection is not a bad thing, but a healthy thing, not based on sweeping generalisation that "its BA". So, before joining, strip away any preconceptions, treat it as Joe blogs airlines and do an appraisal.
You will be for the moment well paid - at the top of the uk tree for first officers. You will be relatively secure. You will work for a company that still is slightly Victorian on its interpretation of how to be soft and friendly towards employees (it's working on that one I hear). But you will be working for a company that works you foot to the floor, full octane. No one despite all the posturing can deny that at the moment. There is no escaping that. And do not make the mistake many has made that thinking more money makes for a better coffin. Judge for yourself, no one else. Its your life, no one else's of course. The situation is changing, bare that in mind. Be astute and judge for its merits and warts in honesty and you won't be disappointed. And be aware there are subtle changed that foretell changes no one can know, but has many wondering.
It's a complicated job to assess and not at all a basket place to apply for. It's an all or nothing sort of place. Marmite. I've not had a great impression so far but that's not to say I've lost complete faith already. As said, I'm still working hard to keep my chin up not least because I placed so much on coming here, but I'm no fool and if it stops working for me long term, I will seek plan B.1.2
Last edited by Spookster; 11th Oct 2016 at 22:52.
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This question goes to anyone who has attended or is preparing for the 2nd stage (group exercise, interview)?
How to interpret this question and come up with a suitable answer?
Give us an example in your life when you have been too accommodating for reasons of cultural diversity and thereby have let someone else down.
How to interpret this question and come up with a suitable answer?
Give us an example in your life when you have been too accommodating for reasons of cultural diversity and thereby have let someone else down.
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Was that question actually asked? If so it's a ridiculous question which has absolutely zero relevance to the operation of an airliner. This is what happens when HR are allowed to get too close to a pilot recruitment process. This process has gone completely mad.
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How long has Nigel Farage worked for BAs recruitment team? Awful question.
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That is hysterical. Pilot recruiting gone mad.
There are plenty of ways to assess the non-technical persona of the candidate with "tell me about a time when" questions, if they still flatly refuse to have a technical interview.
This is just proof that the lunatics are running the asylum.
There are plenty of ways to assess the non-technical persona of the candidate with "tell me about a time when" questions, if they still flatly refuse to have a technical interview.
This is just proof that the lunatics are running the asylum.
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BA would prefer culturally aware pilots. That question probably exists to check you're not some UKIP voting, Daily Mail letter writer. But it seems some of you are ;-)
Think about it. You're getting upset about a politically correct question? Don't you get it? You'll be sharing a cockpit with a diverse ethnic/sexuality/gender spread in BA. If you get all het up at the ambiguity it'll just prove you're another one of those veiled intolerant-types that quite frankly, we have enough of in BA already.
Think about it. You're getting upset about a politically correct question? Don't you get it? You'll be sharing a cockpit with a diverse ethnic/sexuality/gender spread in BA. If you get all het up at the ambiguity it'll just prove you're another one of those veiled intolerant-types that quite frankly, we have enough of in BA already.
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I work in an outfit every bit as diverse as BA, thank you. Per capita, I'd say far moreso.
My cultural awareness is fine. The question doesn't bother me personally - I just fail to see how this isn't a case of HR being given too long a leash. It would seem plenty agree.
But, thanks for joining in. Without people like you, we'd be stuck with technical questions and personality-gauging questions based on relevant experience. How would we cope?
My cultural awareness is fine. The question doesn't bother me personally - I just fail to see how this isn't a case of HR being given too long a leash. It would seem plenty agree.
But, thanks for joining in. Without people like you, we'd be stuck with technical questions and personality-gauging questions based on relevant experience. How would we cope?