BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Soon to be out of the EU.
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Well KLM employs almost interest Dutch crews (apart from ex KLMUK crews), Air France recruit almost entirely French people, Iberia entirely Spanish and Alitalia almost entirely Italian. They don't have problems keeping their planes crewed. Neither will BA.
Oh I agree they could in theory, but I rather suspect BA have a different approach to costs, and are less hindered/less limited by legacy agreements with the likes of professional associations, national educational requirements (e.g concours) and language proficiency than some of the airlines you have mentioned. BA sure as heck will want to continue to recruit from the biggest pool possible, to get what they want at a price they are prepared to pay.
Since you mentioned the Dutch..get rid of them from my Fleet's training department and we would be in severe do do, so I rather suspect regardless of the "in" or "out" the demography at BA isn't going to change any time soon.
In the context of this thread I certainly wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a Brits only recruitment policy, we're a heck of a long way from that, if it ever happens.
Since you mentioned the Dutch..get rid of them from my Fleet's training department and we would be in severe do do, so I rather suspect regardless of the "in" or "out" the demography at BA isn't going to change any time soon.
In the context of this thread I certainly wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a Brits only recruitment policy, we're a heck of a long way from that, if it ever happens.
Last edited by wiggy; 23rd Jun 2016 at 13:16.
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And all credit to BA for their recruitment policy - it is how it should be done.
From first hand experience KLM (and the VNV) do not follow the same rules.
The way that they treated the, generally, British pilots in the takeover of Air UK/KLMuk some years ago was disgraceful.
Compare the KLM takeover of AirUK to the way that British Airways integrated Cityflyer Express at LGW - no comparison.
One more reason to vote out.
From first hand experience KLM (and the VNV) do not follow the same rules.
The way that they treated the, generally, British pilots in the takeover of Air UK/KLMuk some years ago was disgraceful.
Compare the KLM takeover of AirUK to the way that British Airways integrated Cityflyer Express at LGW - no comparison.
One more reason to vote out.
Just to clarify, BA have plenty of trainers of many nationalities, more than a few of them Brits! I just picked the example of the Dutch nationality because I've worked with a couple of them and if a "no EU nationals" working at BA rule came in overnight that would leave the training department on at least one fleet a bit short, but not out, of trainers.. ..as for:
Not sure I'm on your wavelength and I really don't want to go off at a nasty tangent. Are you asking why BA don't currently give preference to British applicants for training positions?
If so I'd suggest it's because in the UK at the moment that would be very difficult to do easily and pretty much impossible legally. The UK system in general is quite permissive (for example professional organisations such as BALPA have no input into recruiting or selection for promotion/training), we don't really have a competitive national examination system to gate entry specifically into aviation, and we have a language that many europeans are frighteningly good at speaking. I like it the way it is, I think BA is the better for it, I accept others may think differently.
would/could & should they not be english if BA applied the same criteria as other airline mentioned
If so I'd suggest it's because in the UK at the moment that would be very difficult to do easily and pretty much impossible legally. The UK system in general is quite permissive (for example professional organisations such as BALPA have no input into recruiting or selection for promotion/training), we don't really have a competitive national examination system to gate entry specifically into aviation, and we have a language that many europeans are frighteningly good at speaking. I like it the way it is, I think BA is the better for it, I accept others may think differently.
Last edited by wiggy; 23rd Jun 2016 at 16:34.
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Kind of a risky strategy to get a BA command though. First get a command at another company and hope IAG buy them. Further hope they are incorporated into BA. Further hope you pass the BA incorporation training. Still think it's easier to apply and do your time in the RHS myself.
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VJW, you would never get a job with English level 4 at BA. You need to be fluent in the local language as in Af, KLM, LH,....
The foreigners who get a job in BA are almost bilingual, if you, as a Brit, are bilingual you won't have a problem getting a job in AF, KLM, IB,... It has nothing to do with nationality only with (language) skills, so where is the discrimination?
The foreigners who get a job in BA are almost bilingual, if you, as a Brit, are bilingual you won't have a problem getting a job in AF, KLM, IB,... It has nothing to do with nationality only with (language) skills, so where is the discrimination?
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Hold pool update
I am currently bobbing along in the holding pool (12 weeks now) for LH. I spoke to them a few days ago regarding a course. They told me at the moment they are having an 'employment review'. This has resulting in the courses being put on hold while they decide on their requirements. Now they are unsure how long this could take, could be a few days, could be a few weeks, it's uncertain. They asked me to call back in another 2 weeks to see if they have an update. Thought I'd just let those fellow bobbers know in case they also had a heart attack when their phone rang with hope of start dates.
There's no real indication that brexit is going to affect the employment trend at BA at this point. The recruitment being done today is (as far as I'm aware) based on planned retirements, running the current schedule and the additional long haul hulls, not by expansion driven by the wonderful UK economic performance. If I'm wrong though, maybe those with the self entitlement to apply purely for long haul positions and therefore not taking one of the many available positions on short haul will regret their decision not to be able to join the company at the earliest opportunity.
As Plastic787 has said I don't think today's decision will effect the current round of recruitng.
Down the road it wil be interesting to see how this plays out for IAG as a whole and BA's part in it...
Down the road it wil be interesting to see how this plays out for IAG as a whole and BA's part in it...
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I doubt the profit warning issued earlier by IAG is good news for recruitment though:
British Airways owner IAG sounds profit warning within hours of Brexit result
British Airways owner IAG sounds profit warning within hours of Brexit result
TBH I wouldn't read to much into that warning.
Most of us on the shop floor were aware that last financial year's performance was an outlier and this current financial year profit levels would more than likely return to something more normal.
Most of us on the shop floor were aware that last financial year's performance was an outlier and this current financial year profit levels would more than likely return to something more normal.
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Not sure what you are talking about there Wiggy. First I've heard of last year being an "outlier". Before Brexit the profit was forecast to continue to grow, in part due to the unwinding of fuel hedges but also as the economy was supposed to be growing. IAG have issued the profit warning as advance bookings are below trend. Hopefully all short-term due to uncertainty in the markets. But it is worth noting that pilot recruitment is NOT due to retirements (fewer than 40 this year I recall) but mainly due to expansion. If expansion stops, which is a possibility as a result of Brexit, it will have a very real impact on recruitment.
CW
No doubt correct you're on the maths, the forecasts and yes, I have a rough idea of the financial logic and what the city have been told earlier this year.
However in all honesty most guys I spoke to on the line thought this year's profit were unlikely to be repeated, so yes, an "outlier" in many peoples POV..and the response I've heard to the profit warning hasn't been "what a surprise", it's mostly been "no surprise there then, the rise couldn't continue".
No doubt correct you're on the maths, the forecasts and yes, I have a rough idea of the financial logic and what the city have been told earlier this year.
However in all honesty most guys I spoke to on the line thought this year's profit were unlikely to be repeated, so yes, an "outlier" in many peoples POV..and the response I've heard to the profit warning hasn't been "what a surprise", it's mostly been "no surprise there then, the rise couldn't continue".
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I think I get what you are trying to say, but in a growing economy there is no reason why profits cannot continue to rise as we grab hold of our costs. IAG want their return on capital and will not stop in their pursuit of it. My worry about the IAG profit warning is how IAG and BA react industrially as well as commercially. Will expansion stop? Is a significant attack on our terms and conditions now firmly on the cards? I am very hopeful this uncertainty ends soon so that the economy, and thus the company and recruitment continues to grow. I do feel that people reading this thread should understand that the current recruitment wave has everything to do with growth (as well as new sickness assumptions) and very little to do with retirements.