BA Direct Entry Pilot.
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Captain 34 point pay scale on SH valid 2015
Year 1 72,092 GBP
Year 5 79,912 GBP
Year 10 89,687GBP
In addition you get Flight duty pay 660gbp (?) per month, plus allowances which is 1000-1500per month depending on how hard you work.
Year 1 72,092 GBP
Year 5 79,912 GBP
Year 10 89,687GBP
In addition you get Flight duty pay 660gbp (?) per month, plus allowances which is 1000-1500per month depending on how hard you work.
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BA is, indeed, a good choice for lifestyle. But not if you take an airbus command after 2 or 3 years (even if you think this will be possible, which I'm not convinced about in future years).
All that is going to happen next year is that a lot of senior people are going to take another look at short haul command and realise they are suddenly a lot more senior, relatively, than they would have been this year.
As was mentioned a few posts ago, those really junior pilots getting short haul commands this year could very well end up on blind lines with no weekends off for years. For some that won't matter, but if you have a family it very well might.
All that is going to happen next year is that a lot of senior people are going to take another look at short haul command and realise they are suddenly a lot more senior, relatively, than they would have been this year.
As was mentioned a few posts ago, those really junior pilots getting short haul commands this year could very well end up on blind lines with no weekends off for years. For some that won't matter, but if you have a family it very well might.
Mach 3
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As was mentioned a few posts ago, those really junior pilots getting short haul commands this year could very well end up on blind lines with no weekends off for years. For some that won't matter, but if you have a family it very well might.
Can't they bid back into the RHS again if they're that dis-enfranchised at that stage?
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They can indeed bid back to the RHS of a long haul fleet at a later date. This is what a lot of people used to do until the NAPS command taxation made it a really financially foolish thing to do. One of the reasons short haul commands have gone so junior is that NAPS members are unwilling to sit in short haul as a Captain for an unknown period of time (waiting for a long haul command), and they no longer have the option of going right to left more than once due to the taxation penalty being applied twice if you do.
For those asking about command pay scales, FO payscales are 75% of Captain's pay at all paypoints and on all fleets. It is very simple.
For those asking about command pay scales, FO payscales are 75% of Captain's pay at all paypoints and on all fleets. It is very simple.
Can't they bid back into the RHS again if they're that dis-enfranchised at that stage?
I think doing it these days, and in mid career, would expose the individual to the sorts of financial penalties that GS-Alpha has highlighted .
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The 'flying pay' figure quoted above is about £4200 greater than reality and, on short haul at least, you'd have a very busy night stopping month to achieve the quoted £1200. I'd suggest averaging it would be close to impossible.
If you don't know the numbers don't pretend you do.
If you don't know the numbers don't pretend you do.
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The 'flying pay' figure quoted above is about £4200 greater than reality and, on short haul at least, you'd have a very busy night stopping month to achieve the quoted £1200. I'd suggest averaging it would be close to impossible.
If you don't know the numbers don't pretend you do.
If you don't know the numbers don't pretend you do.
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I imagine it's for varied reasons, but why has BA shorthaul (especially commands it seems) become so unpopular v LH over the last couple of years. The basic job (plenty of nightstops around Europe, slightly less pay v LH, earlies, etc.) has not changed much as far as I know. Is it just the increased "efficiency" (workload) alone or other factors?
Last edited by ManUtd1999; 27th Nov 2015 at 21:59.
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Interview dates
Can anyone help with interview booking.... the site only offers a few dates just within the next couple of weeks. Does this mean that these are the only dates that will be available to me, or if I wait will further dates become available in the future e.g. in January?
Thanks!
Thanks!
ManUtd1999
In the absence of an authoritative reply to your post so far from one of the short haul people on here the best I can do is give you an idea of the main grumbles that get aired, either verbally or on another forum:
1. Short haul moved onto EASA compliant FTLs a while back, so yes, "efficiences" seem to have played a part.
2. As part of yet another round of cost savings BALPA agreed a change in the "Duty rig" for shorthaul, which seems to have meant short haul pilots are doing long duty days hanging around in the bowels in T5 between sectors with no increase in pay/flying.
3. Short haul get an almost daily clobbering by the BA LHR lifestyle...aircraft changes and /or terminal changes/security
4. The perception that there is soon going to be a rapid increase in the rate of upwards movement across the seniority lists. The higher seniority short Haul P2's can see they will soon be in the frame for a move to Long haul if they want it, and many of the Long Haul P2s can see they will soon the frame for a Long Haul Command. Neither group will want to jeopardise that by incurring a freeze on the A320 by taking a Short Haul command......
I must emphasise that's my perception of what in the main has precipitated the current state of affairs, as a Long Hauler who has talked to Long Haul P2s about the how's and why's of their bidding logic. It will be interesting to see what the the guys who are actually "living the dream" think..
In the absence of an authoritative reply to your post so far from one of the short haul people on here the best I can do is give you an idea of the main grumbles that get aired, either verbally or on another forum:
1. Short haul moved onto EASA compliant FTLs a while back, so yes, "efficiences" seem to have played a part.
2. As part of yet another round of cost savings BALPA agreed a change in the "Duty rig" for shorthaul, which seems to have meant short haul pilots are doing long duty days hanging around in the bowels in T5 between sectors with no increase in pay/flying.
3. Short haul get an almost daily clobbering by the BA LHR lifestyle...aircraft changes and /or terminal changes/security
4. The perception that there is soon going to be a rapid increase in the rate of upwards movement across the seniority lists. The higher seniority short Haul P2's can see they will soon be in the frame for a move to Long haul if they want it, and many of the Long Haul P2s can see they will soon the frame for a Long Haul Command. Neither group will want to jeopardise that by incurring a freeze on the A320 by taking a Short Haul command......
I must emphasise that's my perception of what in the main has precipitated the current state of affairs, as a Long Hauler who has talked to Long Haul P2s about the how's and why's of their bidding logic. It will be interesting to see what the the guys who are actually "living the dream" think..
Last edited by wiggy; 28th Nov 2015 at 09:41.
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The perception that there is soon going to be a rapid increase in the rate of upwards movement across the seniority lists. The higher seniority short Haul P2's can see they will soon be in the frame for a move to Long haul if they want it, and many of the Long Haul P2s can see they will soon the frame for a Long Haul Command. Neither group will want to jeopardise that by incurring a freeze on the A320 by taking a Short Haul command......
I would also add that as the LHS demographic for LH fleets is toward the younger end, thanks in part to the Prestwick cadets, then the older SFO's on the LH fleets wouldn't see a move back from LHS SH to LHS LH in their time.
Lifestyle choices are shaping many more peoples careers now days rather than the 'climb to command' greasy pole (certainly a large majority of those SFO's with previous Command experience!).
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wiggy and Wirb have it about right.
Beyond the Prestwick cadets, there is also another bulge of cadets from the late 90s who are now starting to achieve longhaul commands. Some are not even 40, giving up to 25 years in the left seat of a longhaul jet, starting now.
Beyond the Prestwick cadets, there is also another bulge of cadets from the late 90s who are now starting to achieve longhaul commands. Some are not even 40, giving up to 25 years in the left seat of a longhaul jet, starting now.
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Can't argue with any of the above. As a SH RHS to LHS move in 2016 I agree with everything that is being said. My reason behind staying on SH when I have the seniority to go LH RHS again is a lifestyle one. With youngish children and 32 years till retirement right now I would like to be at home a bit more. I don't mind the SH life but it is hard. I plan on going 75% in a few years. By doing that my take home pay will be more or less the same as now but I will be there for my family. In the long future ahead I may then bid LH RHS once the kids have grown up to enjoy the travel with my misses with a view to a short wait to a LH LHS.
That's the plan but if that actually pans out I would be quite surprised.
That's the plan but if that actually pans out I would be quite surprised.
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Wiggy's point 4 sums it up for me too. Looking at the bid results most of the 2011 intake (the most junior unfrozen bidders) have chosen to go to LH, and the 2011 DEPs onto the 747 have also elected to stay LH. So that's an entire years worth of recruits who (mainly) have decided against a SH command.
It doesn't surprise me in the slightest high and middle seniority LH P2s' are sitting tight. They have a combination of a good income with a more sustainable workload and lifestyle. Let's see what changes come in the next few years with Easa and BA "optimisation".
Judging by the comments on the company forum it has bruised a few egos amongst one or two SH captains who obviously feel their position should be aspired to by every lowly co-pilot! The reality is people have bid for what they want, and right now in BA, short haul is proving deeply unpopular.
It doesn't surprise me in the slightest high and middle seniority LH P2s' are sitting tight. They have a combination of a good income with a more sustainable workload and lifestyle. Let's see what changes come in the next few years with Easa and BA "optimisation".
Judging by the comments on the company forum it has bruised a few egos amongst one or two SH captains who obviously feel their position should be aspired to by every lowly co-pilot! The reality is people have bid for what they want, and right now in BA, short haul is proving deeply unpopular.
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I am a junior Capt. Short haul.
Yes I am well paid 6k net a month,nice Hotels, £ 3.39 an hour down route.
However the work is relentless with all the associated issues of LHR. no tug,no busses,no stand guidance etc etc.
iF you want a weekend off then forget it or a special day off is pure chance although pre ops do try to accommodate.
Personally I have had 6 weekends off in 18 months,with some of my colleagues none in 2 years.
Social life is limited. For example on my current 5 day 12 sector tour we have had 9 different cabin crew. Down route is generally a beer and a pizza with your colleague so don't expect much else.
Ba is not a place that you will make friends as the place is so big. Nobody knows who you are but that can be a positive as well.
Everyone is different and some thrive on the hard work and if current FO's choose to stay on long haul then it's their choice.
For me, I am in my bed or a hotel bed every night and when I finish at Lhr say at 9pm and see all,the long haul,flights going off I just think to myself I will have driven home,had 8 hours sleep,had breakfast,walked the dog had a coffee and the long haul guys are still in the air!!
Their is no doubt that nights out of bed are damaging to your health combined with the huge changes in time zone the trouble is that you don't realise the damage it does long term.
I appreciate the last para is off topic but I just wanted to give my reasons for putting up,with short haul. Less money yes, more crap to put up,with at Lhr, yes ,but like I said everyone is different and for me it's my health that's number one.
Yes I am well paid 6k net a month,nice Hotels, £ 3.39 an hour down route.
However the work is relentless with all the associated issues of LHR. no tug,no busses,no stand guidance etc etc.
iF you want a weekend off then forget it or a special day off is pure chance although pre ops do try to accommodate.
Personally I have had 6 weekends off in 18 months,with some of my colleagues none in 2 years.
Social life is limited. For example on my current 5 day 12 sector tour we have had 9 different cabin crew. Down route is generally a beer and a pizza with your colleague so don't expect much else.
Ba is not a place that you will make friends as the place is so big. Nobody knows who you are but that can be a positive as well.
Everyone is different and some thrive on the hard work and if current FO's choose to stay on long haul then it's their choice.
For me, I am in my bed or a hotel bed every night and when I finish at Lhr say at 9pm and see all,the long haul,flights going off I just think to myself I will have driven home,had 8 hours sleep,had breakfast,walked the dog had a coffee and the long haul guys are still in the air!!
Their is no doubt that nights out of bed are damaging to your health combined with the huge changes in time zone the trouble is that you don't realise the damage it does long term.
I appreciate the last para is off topic but I just wanted to give my reasons for putting up,with short haul. Less money yes, more crap to put up,with at Lhr, yes ,but like I said everyone is different and for me it's my health that's number one.
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Frankly, those trying to second guess "the state of the nation" in 5 years time are simply dreaming. things change all the time and at a rapid pace.
Bottom line is, if you want to work for BA then give it your best shot. If you are sceptical, or feel that only one part of BA would suit you, then forget it!
As with many companies the most verbose will make their feelings known whilst the silent majority will just get on with the job, knowing that things will inevitably change, sometimes for the better sometimes not!
Bottom line is, if you want to work for BA then give it your best shot. If you are sceptical, or feel that only one part of BA would suit you, then forget it!
As with many companies the most verbose will make their feelings known whilst the silent majority will just get on with the job, knowing that things will inevitably change, sometimes for the better sometimes not!