BA Direct Entry Pilot.
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Watersidewonker, all you are doing is trying to wind people up, you bring no benefit to this thread with unfounded rumour after unfounded rumour backed up by some journalistic 
from none other the Mail
. It's not great at the moment I'll give you that, but it's still a dammed sight better than other outfits I can tell you. Oh and my eyes are wide open too thanks very much!
from none other the Mail. It's not great at the moment I'll give you that, but it's still a dammed sight better than other outfits I can tell you. Oh and my eyes are wide open too thanks very much!
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Consider the facts sinbin the good old Daily Mail was very very supportive towards BA during the cabin crew dispute of 2010 very anti union i must say. Many would have thought that the pilots union would be pulling the strings with regards to safety concerns examples being Tripoli Tel Aviv and Nairobi alas weakness is quite evident. Any pilot considering joining must consider promotion prospects are very limited coupled with poor starter rates and a fragmented workforce something akin to the masons. Major changes are in the pipeline with a raw deal being served up by an aggressive management structure driven by the next bonus payment. Good luck at your interviews.
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Many would have thought that the pilots union would be pulling the strings with regards to safety concerns examples being Tripoli Tel Aviv and Nairobi alas weakness is quite evident. Any pilot considering joining must consider promotion prospects are very limited coupled with poor starter rates
As for promotion prospects, depending on aspirations it looks likely that a LGW shorthaul command will come down to around 8yrs this winter. Perhaps Heathrow is currently circa 15yrs, but it won't take much for this to drop so take whatever is quoted now as pure guess work.
Starting salary for a new joiner will rise to around 65k in sept (inc allowances). I don't think you will find many FO positions with a starting salary of this scale.
As for bid line, yes it will evolve, but the basis of how we bid for work will remain exactly the same (based on seniority).
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WW
Thank you for your posts on this forum thread.
Rather than use the anonymous medium for spreading your thoughts, if you'd like to have a conversation by telephone please drop me a private message so we can set that up. I'd be happy to discuss any of the points you raise, and give you my thoughts and point of view on them.
I hope you take me up on the offer,
Kind regards
Lindsay Craig
Manager Pilot Recruitment
British Airways
Thank you for your posts on this forum thread.
Rather than use the anonymous medium for spreading your thoughts, if you'd like to have a conversation by telephone please drop me a private message so we can set that up. I'd be happy to discuss any of the points you raise, and give you my thoughts and point of view on them.
I hope you take me up on the offer,
Kind regards
Lindsay Craig
Manager Pilot Recruitment
British Airways
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Oh dear WW, better get that exercise book down the back of your trousers before receiving 6 of the best from a cane, where it hurts!!!
If it's true that BA can't launch scheduled services as a result of mis-management of personnel (sorry, human resources!), then who should be up for a firing, without a golden handshake??
Most unlikely it would be a coalface worker, but truth is stranger than fiction......
SkyRocket10. If you're connected with the BA security team, remind them of the content of my posting #871 on the MH17 thread, they may be too young to remember such events. Those who forget history.....................
Amendment List #1. SkyRocket10, disregard my last, my posting # 871 has been excised from that thread. I wonder why?
If it's true that BA can't launch scheduled services as a result of mis-management of personnel (sorry, human resources!), then who should be up for a firing, without a golden handshake??
Most unlikely it would be a coalface worker, but truth is stranger than fiction......
SkyRocket10. If you're connected with the BA security team, remind them of the content of my posting #871 on the MH17 thread, they may be too young to remember such events. Those who forget history.....................
Amendment List #1. SkyRocket10, disregard my last, my posting # 871 has been excised from that thread. I wonder why?
Last edited by BARKINGMAD; 26th Jul 2014 at 20:58. Reason: Previous possting removed.
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Cor blimey governor! Sticking your neck out here aren't you Lindsay? Your company and it's recruitment policies have inflicted some deep deep scars on people affecting their lives and aspirations.
Why rely on WW to spread the word after your private conversation? Why don't you just put us all out our misery here and tell us how it really is rather than trying to scare people from expressing an opinion? If you want to engage in the forum then why not do it properly, but be careful.... A lot of people are watching and we all know how unpredictable anonymous forums can be.
This says more about BA than anything else on the whole thread!!
Why rely on WW to spread the word after your private conversation? Why don't you just put us all out our misery here and tell us how it really is rather than trying to scare people from expressing an opinion? If you want to engage in the forum then why not do it properly, but be careful.... A lot of people are watching and we all know how unpredictable anonymous forums can be.
This says more about BA than anything else on the whole thread!!
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Instead of just dismissing what WW is saying as bitter inflamed rubbish, which some of it is, some questions do need answering. Are the promotion prospects better than he suggests, have the new starter pay scales and pension been degraded by the present work force in an attempt to keep their own standing and is the workforce still fragmented? These are points which should seriously affect a decision whether or not to join a major carrier at the bottom of a seemingly endless seniority list.
An open question from a bystander.
An open question from a bystander.
WBF
Wiggy, .........what do you predict for someone joining BA now? (With the caveat it is just your informed opinion - and the same request to any of the other BA employees who contribute). 10 years as an FO on A320, no life style, 20 years+ to command and none of the perks of yesteryear? Strong potential to be sidelined into a franchise/ separate AOC/ regionalised? I'm afraid I don't back this company as the golden egg it once was - it's a fine career, not a great career.
There are certainly heavy hints that Shorthaul must do better ....or else ( and since IAG call the shots I guess you can work out what some people are worried about).
Lifestyle - we're in the middle of a major shake up of our scheduling agreement - what we will end up with is anyone's guess but I'm sure it will still be called "Bidline"
...As for perks, well frankly the profit share this year was regarded as being p. poor...
I certainly know one or two of my short haul colleagues who moved to BA from a Major LoCo are now wondering if they did the right thing. That said I'm sure LC will never be short of applicants.
( who as a line pilot is struggling to see how/why somebody brought Masons into the debate, maybe that's a Waterside thing
)
Last edited by wiggy; 23rd Jul 2014 at 22:39.
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I can't help but wondering is that can of worms well and truly open with regards to the ongoing recruitment campaign faltering or not only time will tell. As for an invitation to have a private conversation with Lindsay i think i'm old enough and wise enough to realise that it would be like a visit to the headmasters office for a quiet chat. I never use to hear about pilots leaving to go and join Emirates and other airlines well that is indeed the case this last year or so. Rightfully so as expressed by previous posters questions need to have answers why such a mess has come about cancelled flights force draft i can tell you all one simple answer cutbacks cutbacks cutbacks. Never before has it been more evident from cabin crew to ground staff to engineering that cost cutting has it's negative side such as waiting 20 minutes for a TRM to become available to operate the jetty pathetic response especially at the so called hub. I could write till the cows come home about the mismanagement within BA so plain to see everyday instigated by someone we all love exiled in Madrid.
Last edited by Watersidewonker; 24th Jul 2014 at 00:19.
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Worth considering those that joined the company 6 months ago are now 15-20% off the bottom of the 320 LHR list, and well into trip line territory.
Whoever can predict the seniority levels of LH p2 needs or even time to command in the next decade or so has a better crystal ball than I do, though that said, more LH hulls are coming. Staying LoCo means LH wouldn't be an option anyway right enough.
All in all, I've worked in places where moral is much worse, and general day to day work for me as a junior FO is quite pleasant.
Whoever can predict the seniority levels of LH p2 needs or even time to command in the next decade or so has a better crystal ball than I do, though that said, more LH hulls are coming. Staying LoCo means LH wouldn't be an option anyway right enough.
All in all, I've worked in places where moral is much worse, and general day to day work for me as a junior FO is quite pleasant.
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Hello LGJ (did I get that right?)
Well, thanks for your post. I might be "sticking my neck out" but every year since I have been in this role I and my colleagues have taken/answered thousands of calls and emails, letters and CVs etc, in response to the pilot recruitment process at BA. We have endeavoured to reply to them all, despite the volume, and although we have a small backlog we do try to respond to everyone. We don't hold CVs though, just to be clear.
I am sorry if you have been affected by one of the events that have happened over the years, but without chatting face to face I can't be sure which thing/s you refer to, nor do I have the opportunity to talk from this side about what happened, or what I think of that situation.
That's why, having known about this forum since 1997, I have always treated it with the same caution as the flying instructor who introduced me to it advised - anonymity brings major issues when communicating, and using electronic media mean that all the visual and verbal elements of communicating are lost. Tone is reduced to CAPS lock or smilies, all a bit of a shame. I much prefer face to face, or by phone. I will answer honestly, and am disappointed to hear that WW thinks I would give some kind of headmasterly chat. Far from it, I can only surmise that s/he and I have never met before? I would like to take the feedback, debate it one to one, and try to achieve understanding of both sides of the debate.
I don't intend to become a regular poster on this forum, as the volume of work going on at the moment is high, and I need to dash now to something important. However, I value very highly the commitment and effort all applicants to BA show when applying, and am keen to talk to applicants etc, without the pprune anonymity, should they so wish.
Safe flying everyone
Lindsay
Well, thanks for your post. I might be "sticking my neck out" but every year since I have been in this role I and my colleagues have taken/answered thousands of calls and emails, letters and CVs etc, in response to the pilot recruitment process at BA. We have endeavoured to reply to them all, despite the volume, and although we have a small backlog we do try to respond to everyone. We don't hold CVs though, just to be clear.
I am sorry if you have been affected by one of the events that have happened over the years, but without chatting face to face I can't be sure which thing/s you refer to, nor do I have the opportunity to talk from this side about what happened, or what I think of that situation.
That's why, having known about this forum since 1997, I have always treated it with the same caution as the flying instructor who introduced me to it advised - anonymity brings major issues when communicating, and using electronic media mean that all the visual and verbal elements of communicating are lost. Tone is reduced to CAPS lock or smilies, all a bit of a shame. I much prefer face to face, or by phone. I will answer honestly, and am disappointed to hear that WW thinks I would give some kind of headmasterly chat. Far from it, I can only surmise that s/he and I have never met before? I would like to take the feedback, debate it one to one, and try to achieve understanding of both sides of the debate.
I don't intend to become a regular poster on this forum, as the volume of work going on at the moment is high, and I need to dash now to something important. However, I value very highly the commitment and effort all applicants to BA show when applying, and am keen to talk to applicants etc, without the pprune anonymity, should they so wish.
Safe flying everyone
Lindsay
Watersideplonker, I'm truly sorry to hear about the problem with your keyboard - it must be a nightmare not being able to use a comma within your trite scribblings. It has been troubling you for such a long time - have you considered asking BASSA or UNITE for some funds to get a new keyboard? Perhaps they could pass on to you one of their old cast-offs? Be sure to get one that has a working Caps key!
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Well ladies and gents, as self loading cargo, I have had 2 short haul flights cancelled by BA in the last 6 months due to lack of pilots. An airline without pilots is like a petrol station without petrol - not a great deal of use! BA clearly have issues with pilot numbers and need to do something about it ASAP.
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Stuart you list your only interest as painting sounds like you have nothing better to add than criticise someone's punctuation maybe it's a little presumptuous of me to assume watching paint dry is like having a conversation with you.
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LC This post from a little earlier in the thread says it all. It's not what you do but the way that you do it! And the last bit about private phone calls to some "expired" candidates. Ah you're smart enough to know why that stinks.
With regard to the actual process itself. I'm not even knocking the 'aptitude' side of it nor the 'essay questions' - I've passed them twice, they seem to agree with me!
It's just the way BA go about their business, for instance:
This was my experience, twice. And I'm sure there are thousands of guys reading this thread while constantly logging on to the BA website because they received a generic email saying:
"Congrats you got through stage one, pick a date for stage 2, but wait there are no dates, but don't worry we will release them soon, but we can't tell you when, or when you need to check, or how many there will be, so just spend every 10 minutes every day looking, and if you are flying the day we release them, well tough luck but they will be gone by the time you land"
And if you are lucky to be in front of computer on the day, get to stage 2 and pass it, the next email comes:
"Congrats you got through stage two, pick a date for the SIM, but wait there are no slots, but don't worry we will release them soon, but we can't tell you when, or when you need to check, or how many there will be, so just spend every 10 mins every day looking, and if you are flying the day we release them, well tough luck but they will be gone by the time you land"
Wow must really be lucky, I'm at my computer again! Go to the SIM, and get another email:
"Congrats you passed the SIM, we would like to welcome you to BA, but wait, there are no firm jobs for you, because it takes pilots so long to get through our recruitment process, we have to recruit so far in advance we don't actually know our requirements when we open recruitment, we just sort of wing it. But don't worry, there will be a seat for you to fill on one of our fleets soon, can't tell you when though, but should be within the next 12 months, so if you wouldn't mind terribly putting your career on hold while we figure out what's going on that would be great"
12 months later:
"Hi us at BA again, sorry we have not been in touch we've been busy brainstorming, networking, touching base & conferencing ideas about what our recruitment plan is. Our official policy is to make guys do the whole drawn out process again, we have thought about making it a bit more streamlined, however we are BA, this is how we have always done it, and even though it doesn't work, we are gonna do it this way anyway. But we are gonna do you favour, we are gonna extend our policy to 18 months & keep you hanging that little bit longer because we are gentlemanly like that. Be in touch soon, cheerio!"
6 months later :
"Hi, us at BA again! This big recruitment picture is god awfully tough to work out, but we are getting there slowly, however things move quickly in aviation and BA doesn't, so I'm awfully sorry to tell you we have done nothing but waste your time, and we will now pretend we have no record of you, so if we ever do work out this big picture, you will have to go through it all again, but we don't mind, it's been so long since you did the tests, you've probably forgotten all the answers, anyway all the best"
3 months later:
No email from BA, why would they. But a text from a colleague "Mate BA just called, they miscalculated their numbers, I start next week because I didn't get a SIM slot till 3 months after you did so I'm still in the pool and that whole 3 months means I'm still BA material and you are not."
Repeat the above for 100's of pilots.
Now I'm not suggesting BA recruitment do the above on purpose, that's life and you should just pull up your socks and get on with it, and I'm definitely not the only Ppruner with a BA sob story. But I hope it goes someway to showing others why ex-pool Pilots feel frustrated with the process and why there is an overwhelming feeling of more luck than skill needed, above the normal "Well I didn't pass the aptitude test, so they must be stupid" comments.
It's just the way BA go about their business, for instance:
This was my experience, twice. And I'm sure there are thousands of guys reading this thread while constantly logging on to the BA website because they received a generic email saying:
"Congrats you got through stage one, pick a date for stage 2, but wait there are no dates, but don't worry we will release them soon, but we can't tell you when, or when you need to check, or how many there will be, so just spend every 10 minutes every day looking, and if you are flying the day we release them, well tough luck but they will be gone by the time you land"
And if you are lucky to be in front of computer on the day, get to stage 2 and pass it, the next email comes:
"Congrats you got through stage two, pick a date for the SIM, but wait there are no slots, but don't worry we will release them soon, but we can't tell you when, or when you need to check, or how many there will be, so just spend every 10 mins every day looking, and if you are flying the day we release them, well tough luck but they will be gone by the time you land"
Wow must really be lucky, I'm at my computer again! Go to the SIM, and get another email:
"Congrats you passed the SIM, we would like to welcome you to BA, but wait, there are no firm jobs for you, because it takes pilots so long to get through our recruitment process, we have to recruit so far in advance we don't actually know our requirements when we open recruitment, we just sort of wing it. But don't worry, there will be a seat for you to fill on one of our fleets soon, can't tell you when though, but should be within the next 12 months, so if you wouldn't mind terribly putting your career on hold while we figure out what's going on that would be great"
12 months later:
"Hi us at BA again, sorry we have not been in touch we've been busy brainstorming, networking, touching base & conferencing ideas about what our recruitment plan is. Our official policy is to make guys do the whole drawn out process again, we have thought about making it a bit more streamlined, however we are BA, this is how we have always done it, and even though it doesn't work, we are gonna do it this way anyway. But we are gonna do you favour, we are gonna extend our policy to 18 months & keep you hanging that little bit longer because we are gentlemanly like that. Be in touch soon, cheerio!"
6 months later :
"Hi, us at BA again! This big recruitment picture is god awfully tough to work out, but we are getting there slowly, however things move quickly in aviation and BA doesn't, so I'm awfully sorry to tell you we have done nothing but waste your time, and we will now pretend we have no record of you, so if we ever do work out this big picture, you will have to go through it all again, but we don't mind, it's been so long since you did the tests, you've probably forgotten all the answers, anyway all the best"
3 months later:
No email from BA, why would they. But a text from a colleague "Mate BA just called, they miscalculated their numbers, I start next week because I didn't get a SIM slot till 3 months after you did so I'm still in the pool and that whole 3 months means I'm still BA material and you are not."
Repeat the above for 100's of pilots.
Now I'm not suggesting BA recruitment do the above on purpose, that's life and you should just pull up your socks and get on with it, and I'm definitely not the only Ppruner with a BA sob story. But I hope it goes someway to showing others why ex-pool Pilots feel frustrated with the process and why there is an overwhelming feeling of more luck than skill needed, above the normal "Well I didn't pass the aptitude test, so they must be stupid" comments.
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Let's not forget that Mr Craig's hand is dealt by those within the Waterside. Draining of pools, reinstating candidates (if so the case), reopening DEP recruitment etc etc is attributable to faceless managers who appear to have made some error in calculation somewhere in the last 12 months