BA Direct Entry Pilot.
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Not true. These days 5yrs will likely give you the seniority for the LHS on short haul, where you will be as junior as it gets and staring down the barrel of some really grim rosters for a very long time.
If if you want to stay in the RHS then you’ll probably do ok, but the people that choose to do that rather than move on to other fleets and seats are few and far between.
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Are they? Bugger! I'd heard it was getting more difficult to achieve Part Time. I've been giving it very serious consideration. As eluded to above, people clambering for part time, leaving the company soon after joining and giving up short haul command all paints a grim picture of life in the bottom half of the list.
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Have you seen a junior LH roster nowadays? At least in the days of Bidline you had Seeded Blindlines and you could go somewhere decent and not work too too hard. Nowadays you can expect to pick up all the crap, with six trips with minimum days off in between. There’s guys now actively bidding for reserve because it gives them a better work/life balance, that’s saying something! Virgin fly 750 hours a year on a full time roster to our 900. That alone disproves your point. The case of the DEP who did a couple of months on the 787, took the type rating then buggered off to Virgin tells its own story.
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And the people who have moved from Virgin to BA on the 787? What’s their reasoning? As always you need to take a long-term view to a career at BA. In terms of variety and career options it’s hard to beat. I have flown 700 hours full time (including positioning) in the last 12 months so the thought of an extra 50 elsewhere is frightening! Point re-proven.
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I’m guessing you mean it’s unlikely anyone’s done less that 700 hours on LH?
If not in the last few years I’ve done no more than 650-700 full time LGW, with no long term absence. I do work every weekend though
If not in the last few years I’ve done no more than 650-700 full time LGW, with no long term absence. I do work every weekend though
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Just for completeness, Seeded Blindlines were ONLY on the 747.....the other long haul fleets weren't so lucky. However when I joined on a LH Fleet Blindlines were pretty good and trading with EOT was very easy allowing me to totally rewrite my roster some months.
I'm currently about 2/3 down the P2 list on the 777.....rosters are manageable but under JSS I'm very realistic about what I can expect so bid accordingly. My real gripe at the moment is the number of weekends worked per annum which is ridiculous. In fact it's having a very serious impact on my family life. That said, I met a lovely bloke on my last trip who's just vacated the LHS of the Bus to return to the RHS on the triple. So short of moving to the RHS of the SH Bus and gaining a huge chunk of relative seniority I'm stuck with it. Hopefully the efforts towards getting a fairer balance of weekends off can be achieved soon!
As you say, stories of DEP's joining then swiftly leaving (I know of at least 2 other guys who've done the same) and people giving up a BA Short Haul Command to return to the RHS on a Long Haul fleet to regain some sort of life out of work says a lot!!! Pretty sad really isn't it.
I'm currently about 2/3 down the P2 list on the 777.....rosters are manageable but under JSS I'm very realistic about what I can expect so bid accordingly. My real gripe at the moment is the number of weekends worked per annum which is ridiculous. In fact it's having a very serious impact on my family life. That said, I met a lovely bloke on my last trip who's just vacated the LHS of the Bus to return to the RHS on the triple. So short of moving to the RHS of the SH Bus and gaining a huge chunk of relative seniority I'm stuck with it. Hopefully the efforts towards getting a fairer balance of weekends off can be achieved soon!
As you say, stories of DEP's joining then swiftly leaving (I know of at least 2 other guys who've done the same) and people giving up a BA Short Haul Command to return to the RHS on a Long Haul fleet to regain some sort of life out of work says a lot!!! Pretty sad really isn't it.
Back in the good ole days there was no such thing as part time. Now days there is one UK AOC (big red and yellow machine) that's see's part time as a positive way of keeping its crews,(probably 20% are P/T) This ensures their loyalty (most of the time), offering fixed roster pattern for a large amount of crew and has agreements for days off in a year (never enough for Nigel's but a good amount) and has an agreement on weekends off also.
The problem for BALPA is getting their members to think collectively rather than just for themselves - Good luck with that. If BA are to offer more weekends they will want something back e.g. no payrise, 1000 hours etc etc
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If BA are to offer more weekends they will want something back e.g. no payrise, 1000 hours etc etc
Weekends off come more frequently with seniority in a seniority driven system. It’s really as simple as that. All the collective Nigelism in the world won’t stop the need for Saturday-Sunday reports.
Agreed..the company could reduce exposure to weekends by reducing CAP, which would mean either reducing the flying programme or employing a lot more pilots..what are the chances
Wanting weekends off isn't something new but there isn't a complete fix and even those of us on senior long haul rosters will see work touch or completely cover the majority of weekends in a month ( though you do bump into the irritating outliers who like to claim they never work weekends..).
Re Part Time and Aiminghigh's question:
..I don't have the numbers to hand but:
I gather getting an Aspirational Part Time Contract ( as in I'd like Part Time) is rather problematic.
Some folks are getting a "no" to " to asks for "Right to Request" contracts.
So yes, the observation that people are having difficulty getting a part time contracts is true.
BMRR. Not wanting to distract from what is a BA thread but comparisons can be useful and the point made was that the red and yellow machine has weekends off as part of a scheduling agreement rather than being miserable for a number of years until seniority becomes your friend.
Freight does move at weekends and plenty of crews have weekends away from home in all sorts of places. Also getting home am sat after a string of nights doesn’t really count as a weekend off, neither does reporting sun pm.
Out of interest does BA have a contractual annual Days free of Duty total? (Leave plus OFF days). How far in advance is the roster published? Once published can the days worked be adjusted without consent?
just curious.
Freight does move at weekends and plenty of crews have weekends away from home in all sorts of places. Also getting home am sat after a string of nights doesn’t really count as a weekend off, neither does reporting sun pm.
Out of interest does BA have a contractual annual Days free of Duty total? (Leave plus OFF days). How far in advance is the roster published? Once published can the days worked be adjusted without consent?
just curious.
Last edited by deltahotel; 5th Jul 2019 at 10:34.
No, not as such..in basic terms for guaranteed days off you have your 4 weeks leave, plus ,if you opt not to work in them you have a handful off wrap ( buffer) days associated with the leave,, plus 2 Duty Free weeks, and up to 6 Golden days you can also opt to take. Outside of that It's down to EASA.
How far in advance is the roster published?
Once published can the days worked be adjusted without consent?
Last edited by wiggy; 5th Jul 2019 at 13:45.
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Not wanting to distract from what is a BA thread but comparisons can be useful and the point made was that the red and yellow machine has weekends off as part of a scheduling agreement rather than being miserable for a number of years until seniority becomes your friend.
The problem is BA doesn’t work like that, and in a seniority system you have to accept a period at the bottom. Which means years of majority weekend working.
I'll emphasise that I don't agree that there should be a situation where somebody is forced to work every weekend outside of leave for years on end but we need to be careful of creating an impression that weekend working is very much more biased towards juniority than perhaps is actually the case.
Last edited by wiggy; 5th Jul 2019 at 18:50.
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I've just had a look at the rosters at the top of a longhaul senority list ( numbers < 100) and a significant number are working 2 or 3 weekends in July, and at least one is working 4. I'm not at that stratospheric level of seniority but I've just come a run of three weekends on the trot ( albeit by choice, to get the trips then subsequent days off I needed).
I'll emphasise that I don't agree that there should be a situation where somebody is forced to work every weekend outside of leave for years on end but we need to be careful of creating an impression that weekend working is very much more biased towards juniority than perhaps is actually the case.
I'll emphasise that I don't agree that there should be a situation where somebody is forced to work every weekend outside of leave for years on end but we need to be careful of creating an impression that weekend working is very much more biased towards juniority than perhaps is actually the case.
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Absolutely agree with the above. I’m in the top third on my fleet. In May I worked two weekends (my choice), June I worked every weekend (definitely not my choice!), July I’m working one weekend (my choice) and by using leave and golden days I already know I won’t be working any weekends in August.
