BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Needs to be done by limiting the max number of trips operating in the WOCL if fatigue were the target
apart from the EASA is unrealistically too focused upon time zone changes that have little to nil effect on fatigue with the time spent away.
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To add some perspective to how fatigue is managed at 2 other UK airlines I've worked for.
Call crewing.
"Im fatigued for my duty"
"Ok I'll take you off"
"Thanks bye"
And you'd never hear about it again from anyone. No follow up phone call or email. All you would have to do is fill in a fatigue questionnaire as to what caused your fatigue. And anything from jet lag, to a night flight to a screaming baby at home are perfectly acceptable reasons. In fact, you're completely untouchable when you go fatigued. More so than if you call sick.
Call crewing.
"Im fatigued for my duty"
"Ok I'll take you off"
"Thanks bye"
And you'd never hear about it again from anyone. No follow up phone call or email. All you would have to do is fill in a fatigue questionnaire as to what caused your fatigue. And anything from jet lag, to a night flight to a screaming baby at home are perfectly acceptable reasons. In fact, you're completely untouchable when you go fatigued. More so than if you call sick.
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That said, the culture imho is very different to the one represented above. I am curious to see if views are based upon actual bad experience or perception of how one would be treated. I’ve not heard bad things from people who have needed to take a little recovery time, it’s a shame those views are not represented above.
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To add some perspective to how fatigue is managed at 2 other UK airlines I've worked for.
Call crewing.
"Im fatigued for my duty"
"Ok I'll take you off"
"Thanks bye"
And you'd never hear about it again from anyone. No follow up phone call or email. All you would have to do is fill in a fatigue questionnaire as to what caused your fatigue. And anything from jet lag, to a night flight to a screaming baby at home are perfectly acceptable reasons. In fact, you're completely untouchable when you go fatigued. More so than if you call sick.
Call crewing.
"Im fatigued for my duty"
"Ok I'll take you off"
"Thanks bye"
And you'd never hear about it again from anyone. No follow up phone call or email. All you would have to do is fill in a fatigue questionnaire as to what caused your fatigue. And anything from jet lag, to a night flight to a screaming baby at home are perfectly acceptable reasons. In fact, you're completely untouchable when you go fatigued. More so than if you call sick.
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In my experience it’s basically the same. Contrary to popular belief BA won’t hunt you down if you report fatigued. I’ve had nothing but support when I’ve called in fatigued and all they’ve asked me to do is fill in an ASR with “Fatigue Report” in the title and let them know when I’m happy to resume my roster.
Junior trash
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In my experience it’s basically the same. Contrary to popular belief BA won’t hunt you down if you report fatigued. I’ve had nothing but support when I’ve called in fatigued and all they’ve asked me to do is fill in an ASR with “Fatigue Report” in the title and let them know when I’m happy to resume my roster.
Having said that, I understand that on not a few occasions, fatigued pilots were subsequently questioned why they had logged onto crewlink and emaestro in the run up to calling in fatigued. That to me shows a complete unawareness of the issue. If I was to publish the DFCM’s name I’d probably get banned, but would have several thousand pilots nodding in recognition.
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Having said that, I understand that on not a few occasions, fatigued pilots were subsequently questioned why they had logged onto crewlink and emaestro in the run up to calling in fatigued. That to me shows a complete unawareness of the issue. If I was to publish the DFCM’s name I’d probably get banned, but would have several thousand pilots nodding in recognition.
hmmmm...
When I went fatigued it was very easy and dealt with by one of our fantastic DFCMs (most of them are bloody good in my experience). I apologised and felt (wrongly I guess) as though I'd let the company down or dropped them in it some how to cover my roster. I was very impressed at the response I received and reassured that this was a daily occurrence and an extremely regular conversation.
What wasn't so clever was the DFCM (no names mentioned) who picked it up a day or so later and explained how I'm fine now I've had 24 hours at home and would likely be ready for work as they're very short of FO's. When I said no I was subtly interrogated on my drives to work, rest management / arrangements between day trips and home life situation. It was disappointing to say the least when I was then asked at the end of the call to put it all in writing via email. Gave them both barrels on my email but smelt a rat.....so when I was back in I had a look in the system audit trail to find that my fatigue had been re classified. Never got to the bottom of what to but I insisted it was changed back. The trail went cold but suspect it was re categorised. Shame really, it's just masking the problems.
Overall, a very very good experience initially but the follow up and company audit trail wasn't good at all.
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Is it not a problem partially of the workforces making though? If you have huge constraints placed on rostering by a seniority based system that has junior guys picking up multiple low credit trips, because those above them are picking out the highly credit dense stuff, leaving the scraps at the bottom?
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hmmmm...
When I went fatigued it was very easy and dealt with by one of our fantastic DFCMs (most of them are bloody good in my experience). I apologised and felt (wrongly I guess) as though I'd let the company down or dropped them in it some how to cover my roster. I was very impressed at the response I received and reassured that this was a daily occurrence and an extremely regular conversation.
What wasn't so clever was the DFCM (no names mentioned) who picked it up a day or so later and explained how I'm fine now I've had 24 hours at home and would likely be ready for work as they're very short of FO's. When I said no I was subtly interrogated on my drives to work, rest management / arrangements between day trips and home life situation. It was disappointing to say the least when I was then asked at the end of the call to put it all in writing via email. Gave them both barrels on my email but smelt a rat.....so when I was back in I had a look in the system audit trail to find that my fatigue had been re classified. Never got to the bottom of what to but I insisted it was changed back. The trail went cold but suspect it was re categorised. Shame really, it's just masking the problems.
Overall, a very very good experience initially but the follow up and company audit trail wasn't good at all.
When I went fatigued it was very easy and dealt with by one of our fantastic DFCMs (most of them are bloody good in my experience). I apologised and felt (wrongly I guess) as though I'd let the company down or dropped them in it some how to cover my roster. I was very impressed at the response I received and reassured that this was a daily occurrence and an extremely regular conversation.
What wasn't so clever was the DFCM (no names mentioned) who picked it up a day or so later and explained how I'm fine now I've had 24 hours at home and would likely be ready for work as they're very short of FO's. When I said no I was subtly interrogated on my drives to work, rest management / arrangements between day trips and home life situation. It was disappointing to say the least when I was then asked at the end of the call to put it all in writing via email. Gave them both barrels on my email but smelt a rat.....so when I was back in I had a look in the system audit trail to find that my fatigue had been re classified. Never got to the bottom of what to but I insisted it was changed back. The trail went cold but suspect it was re categorised. Shame really, it's just masking the problems.
Overall, a very very good experience initially but the follow up and company audit trail wasn't good at all.
One of the two UK AOC's with approved FRMS now get a sleep scientist (who has done work for AOC's and BALPA to maintain a good balance) to give "science of sleep" training to all their Crew, Crewing staff etc. It might help if BA put some of their Pilot Managers in touch?
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For resignations read resignations in order to take early retirement if you wish. Not to move to another company. Just people disillusioned with JSS / Pensions / Morale etc
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Don't believe all the rumours, the retirees are at the moment pretty much only 65 year olds pilots, a few from within the bubble who moved to an airline up North and around 20 junior pilots who joined KLM and Aer Lingus.
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Correct. I’ve counted 10 777 resignations so far this year including a few FOs. For comparison that’s less than 1% of the fleet establishment.
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Someone will disagree with me, but hey ho, before I’m called massively negative, right now I quite like it, the pay cheque is regular and stable, my roster doesn’t change and I have decent lifestyle control, would I recommend you join the bottom of any fleet on JSS, unless you’re 24 and single, or a realist who knows the score and is willing to put years in before you see fruits? Absolutely not. Even then, ask me in another five years time, if current trajectories of our T&Cs being assaulted continues, I probably wouldn’t recommend it full stop. Very very sad to have that as my honest opinion right now.
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Not true, I personally know of 3 in the Jet 2 hold pool (DEPs last 5 years mix of LHS/RHS), one to a private jet operator, one in the TUI hold pool and one in the Easy hold pool for DEC. Then there’s the two who left in January to Virgin off the 787, plus another who’s gone back to Ryanair. BA is 100% now a “if you’re from the SE and it suits your lifestyle”.
Someone will disagree with me, but hey ho, before I’m called massively negative, right now I quite like it, the pay cheque is regular and stable, my roster doesn’t change and I have decent lifestyle control, would I recommend you join the bottom of any fleet on JSS, unless you’re 24 and single, or a realist who knows the score and is willing to put years in before you see fruits? Absolutely not. Even then, ask me in another five years time, if current trajectories of our T&Cs being assaulted continues, I probably wouldn’t recommend it full stop. Very very sad to have that as my honest opinion right now.
My question being will the introduction if this system / general assault in Ts+Cs result in more career SFOs who refuse to be junior again?
I don’t think BA has trouble getting people through the door mind you. The pass rate in their assessments can only be about 20% max maybe from start to finish...
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Hi Guys and Gals
If anyone could assist in providing some info I'd be most grateful.
I'm a South African with British Passport (have lived in UK before), busy with my EASA ATPL (yes, I know the ins and outs with Brexit).
Living in SA I really don't know a hell of a lot about BA in terms of what fleet you get put on, LH or SH, career progression and roster patterns, as well as the ability to commute and even what starting pay is,
Unfortunately I don't know anyone at BA so figured this is best place to ask.
Not quite sure what direction SA is going at the moment so thought it best to have a plan B in case things really go to the dogs! (seems like they are)
Thank you!
If anyone could assist in providing some info I'd be most grateful.
I'm a South African with British Passport (have lived in UK before), busy with my EASA ATPL (yes, I know the ins and outs with Brexit).
Living in SA I really don't know a hell of a lot about BA in terms of what fleet you get put on, LH or SH, career progression and roster patterns, as well as the ability to commute and even what starting pay is,
Unfortunately I don't know anyone at BA so figured this is best place to ask.
Not quite sure what direction SA is going at the moment so thought it best to have a plan B in case things really go to the dogs! (seems like they are)
Thank you!