BA Direct Entry Pilot.
OK I'll pip in.
What is this "Toxic Atmosphere" that a few post about? Is it the management, the training department, or fellow crew?
Nearly 30 years in I still remember joining with many thousand hours at the bottom of the most senior fleet, twas the way that it is was then and always has been, perhaps because we didn't have the internet there wasn't so much bitching.
Just to add in all those years there is only one guy that I wouldn't shake hands with after a trip.
What is this "Toxic Atmosphere" that a few post about? Is it the management, the training department, or fellow crew?
Nearly 30 years in I still remember joining with many thousand hours at the bottom of the most senior fleet, twas the way that it is was then and always has been, perhaps because we didn't have the internet there wasn't so much bitching.
Just to add in all those years there is only one guy that I wouldn't shake hands with after a trip.
Seriously....good point about the intergripe.....I think the big irritant ATM is managements never ending bearing down on some aspects of the day job and what some perceive as the hectoring of the line staff whilst they seem OTOH to be ignoring things that really do need fixing but don’t get it done because doing so would cost 10 pence....
As for previous comments about senority and JSS...There seems to several different sides to this and I think the point made about some people expecting every weekend off is very valid. The way I’ve heard it in the last few days is some of the community got their heads around the JSS process early on / got lucky/ constructed bids iaw with their senority and associated expectations and achieved rosters that probably were a match to anything they got under Bidline, if not better. Some of the absolute disasters might have been finger trouble/people being stupidly optimistic and then not having a realistic backstop (if that is not too controversial a term these days) which meant when those didn’t work out they got dumped on, and then there is the issue of those that were previously on Blindlines finding they are now being rostered to a full months flying...I do understand some of the angry reactions I have read elsewhere but I’ve spoken to a lot of people who were happy with the result...I still think it will need until at least Easter until we see how it will work long term.
The really big thing to understand is the senority aspect of working at BA is not going away any time soon.
Last edited by wiggy; 16th Dec 2018 at 17:37.
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Have a few mates who are JSS trainers and got another mate who is a BALPA rep. Both say 9 out of 10 are happy with what they got given in January with their first JSS bid. From the 10% who are not happy around 75% made an error in their bid or simply didn't put in the work to fully understand JSS.
I guess it always the 2.5% who weren't happy who scream the loudest. I for one really appreciate seniority, it makes things fair and transparent. Have seen it in previous airlines who rather took Direct Entry Captains than promoting their own staff. In BA at least loyalty is rewarded and everybody begins at the bottom of the long list and works him/herself up. I still remember we got told on day one "In BA you only have to be junior once" this is so true. With that in mind it makes me laugh some choose to be junior for a prolonged period with their career choices and then start complaining about it. I doubt they will get much empathy from anybody they fly with.
I guess it always the 2.5% who weren't happy who scream the loudest. I for one really appreciate seniority, it makes things fair and transparent. Have seen it in previous airlines who rather took Direct Entry Captains than promoting their own staff. In BA at least loyalty is rewarded and everybody begins at the bottom of the long list and works him/herself up. I still remember we got told on day one "In BA you only have to be junior once" this is so true. With that in mind it makes me laugh some choose to be junior for a prolonged period with their career choices and then start complaining about it. I doubt they will get much empathy from anybody they fly with.
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Have a few mates who are JSS trainers and got another mate who is a BALPA rep. Both say 9 out of 10 are happy with what they got given in January with their first JSS bid. From the 10% who are not happy around 75% made an error in their bid or simply didn't put in the work to fully understand JSS.
I guess it always the 2.5% who weren't happy who scream the loudest. I for one really appreciate seniority, it makes things fair and transparent. Have seen it in previous airlines who rather took Direct Entry Captains than promoting their own staff. In BA at least loyalty is rewarded and everybody begins at the bottom of the long list and works him/herself up. I still remember we got told on day one "In BA you only have to be junior once" this is so true. With that in mind it makes me laugh some choose to be junior for a prolonged period with their career choices and then start complaining about it. I doubt they will get much empathy from anybody they fly with.
I guess it always the 2.5% who weren't happy who scream the loudest. I for one really appreciate seniority, it makes things fair and transparent. Have seen it in previous airlines who rather took Direct Entry Captains than promoting their own staff. In BA at least loyalty is rewarded and everybody begins at the bottom of the long list and works him/herself up. I still remember we got told on day one "In BA you only have to be junior once" this is so true. With that in mind it makes me laugh some choose to be junior for a prolonged period with their career choices and then start complaining about it. I doubt they will get much empathy from anybody they fly with.
I believe that your comments about JSS are just as accurate for many of us. It is early days for JSS but I think that in time most of us will bitterly regret giving up BidLine, just as we have regretted so many other changes over the last 10 years.
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I hear what you say about JSS, it wasn't my choice either, but the majority has voted and unfortunately JSS is reality now. Being a JSS critic myself I have to admit I was impressed with my January roster. But I do think there is still a fair bit of work to do on the inhibitors to make the (mainly LH) seniority gradient similar as what we had with Bidline.
Last edited by Jumbo2; 17th Dec 2018 at 06:27.
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Jumbo2. I have to agree that the seniority system is about the only one which works. Start at the bottom and work your way up. You earn the opportunity for a seat change or command but you still have to prove you are capable.
What I disagree with is how seniority is used to such a extent that it so negatively affects the day to day lives of a good 20% of any status. Yes there should be a gradient but that gradient is very steep. We have a problem getting people to take commands because of it.
There are simple solutions which could resolve this but the top rules and there is no appetite to do anything.
Some of us would love to “start at the bottom and work our way up” the reality is we stay at the bottom forever unless we give up our command. That is not a fair system at all.
What I disagree with is how seniority is used to such a extent that it so negatively affects the day to day lives of a good 20% of any status. Yes there should be a gradient but that gradient is very steep. We have a problem getting people to take commands because of it.
There are simple solutions which could resolve this but the top rules and there is no appetite to do anything.
Some of us would love to “start at the bottom and work our way up” the reality is we stay at the bottom forever unless we give up our command. That is not a fair system at all.
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Not quite true is it Red9...
From day one the ex bmi boys & girls have been able to join RHS LH & therefore leave the bmi bubble... indeed I watched through my 5 year engagement freeze junior pilots do exactly that... & get commands on LH&SH! Frustrating for me yes but that was the deal. Any ex bmi Pilot bidding for a protected command also knew the deal & therefore would enter the bmi bubble, wether that’s fare or not that’s the deal. So to assume there was no choice is frankly wrong, it was their Choice!
However in 2016 Commands went so junior that a group of ex bmi pilots achieved an aspirational position, I along with many feel they should be in the BA list & why BALPA doesn’t correct this I don’t know... I guess because it doesn’t suit them & by them I mean IG. I’ve also been told that it’s to do with MPE , but that’s a load of pony because as people eventually retire it will become impossible to maintain that MPE. Don’t forget it was the ex bmi Pilots that scuppered the last JSS vote too!
Red if you want the bmi bubble to be disbanded then be my guest to complain to BALPA, we’re all BA pilots which means we all adhere to the MOA & all have a MSL position. I respect the negative aspects of the integration deal, so should everyone.
From day one the ex bmi boys & girls have been able to join RHS LH & therefore leave the bmi bubble... indeed I watched through my 5 year engagement freeze junior pilots do exactly that... & get commands on LH&SH! Frustrating for me yes but that was the deal. Any ex bmi Pilot bidding for a protected command also knew the deal & therefore would enter the bmi bubble, wether that’s fare or not that’s the deal. So to assume there was no choice is frankly wrong, it was their Choice!
However in 2016 Commands went so junior that a group of ex bmi pilots achieved an aspirational position, I along with many feel they should be in the BA list & why BALPA doesn’t correct this I don’t know... I guess because it doesn’t suit them & by them I mean IG. I’ve also been told that it’s to do with MPE , but that’s a load of pony because as people eventually retire it will become impossible to maintain that MPE. Don’t forget it was the ex bmi Pilots that scuppered the last JSS vote too!
Red if you want the bmi bubble to be disbanded then be my guest to complain to BALPA, we’re all BA pilots which means we all adhere to the MOA & all have a MSL position. I respect the negative aspects of the integration deal, so should everyone.
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BASHLH. The protected command thing is all very grey and mostly not covered in the agreement. 100% spot on with the 2016 commands though.
I just wish it could be sorted. It’s nearly 7 years now and it is still paralysis. The only way out is from the top to take a LH command (< 2 % ) of LH commands or give up your command.
Anyway I repeat myself again and again. I think we agree on the subject.
I just wish it could be sorted. It’s nearly 7 years now and it is still paralysis. The only way out is from the top to take a LH command (< 2 % ) of LH commands or give up your command.
Anyway I repeat myself again and again. I think we agree on the subject.
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It is true The ex BMI could go right hand seat and go long haul.
Believe it or not not everyone wants long haul despite more money etc etc, so the only choice they have is to go RHS short haul if they want to leave the bubble,
I take my. Hat off to the FO’s who chose to take command and re enter the bubble to forward their career which I believe is what we all probably wanted when we first started out. I do get it as to why so many long haul pilots just stay where they are with many retiring in the RHS.
Believe it or not not everyone wants long haul despite more money etc etc, so the only choice they have is to go RHS short haul if they want to leave the bubble,
I take my. Hat off to the FO’s who chose to take command and re enter the bubble to forward their career which I believe is what we all probably wanted when we first started out. I do get it as to why so many long haul pilots just stay where they are with many retiring in the RHS.
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By way of an update and for m’2pence worth the latest is command airbus at LHR has now gone senior, Gatwick is off the end of the list, very junior. A friend of mine who is airbus rated has just been given long haul 787, 5 days in the hold pool. I think the lady in charge has now been given the green light to offer courses out. If you’re swimming, expect news very quickly. If you’re applying, expect a very quick application process and gen up on the 767 pitch and power numbers for the assessment. You won’t have to wait long, they’re using the 76 now full time for selection. Good luck
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With JSS and the new crack down on pre duty commuting, would current pilots now consider it difficult to commute in from other parts of the UK while maintaining a decent quality of life? LH or SH.
I think it’s a bit early to see how JSS will really work out, it will take another 2-3 months before we see how typical rosters shape up and how they would fit with “commuting”.
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Thanks for the reply. Having run into a fair number of (usually) long haul crews on my particular shuttle I gather it has been possible in the past without being too detrimental to quality of life? I suppose you’d need at least two completely clear days off between trips or tours otherwise you could be spending an awful lot of single days off in the T5 travelodge.
Thanks for the reply. Having run into a fair number of (usually) long haul crews on my particular shuttle I gather it has been possible in the past without being too detrimental to quality of life? I suppose you’d need at least two completely clear days off between trips or tours otherwise you could be spending an awful lot of single days off in the T5 travelodge.
FWIW on Longhaul you are usually going to get two or more complete clear days off between trips anyway, unless you opt to reduce rest or actively try for a back to back...
Last edited by wiggy; 20th Dec 2018 at 15:20. Reason: or more
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Stage 1 Assessment
Hi All,
I attended stage 1 of the assessment on the 3rd Dec as yet I have not heard anything regarding the outcome.
Has anyone else heard anything who attended an assessment early Dec?
Cheers.
I attended stage 1 of the assessment on the 3rd Dec as yet I have not heard anything regarding the outcome.
Has anyone else heard anything who attended an assessment early Dec?
Cheers.
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Hey bud, I attended on the same day as you - we probably spoke! I haven't heard either and kinda assumed that meant I was unsuccessful - however I phoned them yesterday and they said they haven't given any results out yet from that day and to wait patiently for an email... starting to lose my mind slightly! Good luck!
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Hey bud, I attended on the same day as you - we probably spoke! I haven't heard either and kinda assumed that meant I was unsuccessful - however I phoned them yesterday and they said they haven't given any results out yet from that day and to wait patiently for an email... starting to lose my mind slightly! Good luck!
But I guess it’ll all remain quiet until the new year now