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Nice! the junior BMI guys get stuffed. That said even the senior ones too. Join at the bottom and stay at the bottom for your entire career. No progression from a rostering stand point. No choice, low to no roster satisfaction and all enforced by BALPA. I even took this up with AB and all I got was a shrug of the shoulders.
I won't pretend that I have followed the zipper debate in minute detail but I do know it was a source of great angst (putting it politely) among many long served BA shorthaulers so there are obviously two sides to that debate. I got the impression from AB's e-mail that running with a dual list wasn't exactly something the company wanted to do and it was something that was going to be subject to continued negotiation...
More interesting (to me anyhow) is the fact that management are willing to back down slightly/temporarily on this issue, which was a blocker to introducing the new rostering system, and accept the hassle of two lists, all in order to get rid of Bidline and get JSS up and running quickly....you'd almost think management think there is something in it for them
More interesting (to me anyhow) is the fact that management are willing to back down slightly/temporarily on this issue, which was a blocker to introducing the new rostering system, and accept the hassle of two lists, all in order to get rid of Bidline and get JSS up and running quickly....you'd almost think management think there is something in it for them
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Nice! the junior BMI guys get stuffed. That said even the senior ones too. Join at the bottom and stay at the bottom for your entire career. No progression from a rostering stand point. No choice, low to no roster satisfaction and all enforced by BALPA. I even took this up with AB and all I got was a shrug of the shoulders.
Anyway back to the thread... good luck to those applying.
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Steady on bex... all EMBA as it were have had the choice from day 1 to go to LH in the RHS, continue in the LHS or take up until recently out of seniority protected commands. In fact all the Commands this & last year were protected... only 2016 saw it drop to & past their seniority. Not bad considering they joined BA in 2012 having commands & RHS LH since day one, whilst others senior to them had to sit out their 5 year engagement freeze. But I like others didn’t complain as it was the deal that was signed. If they’re junior & in the bubble that’s their choice! Could have gone to LH & be nearly 50% for example on the jumbo.... & if I’m not mistaken it was the bmi list that chose to turn down the last zipper solution not the BA list.... Not a bmi bash but let’s state the facts, most feel they’ve done very well. It’s the same for BA guys, was on the bus the other day & a junior BA SH skipper was complaining he’d gone down 3 or 4% & it wasn’t fair.... we’ll could have gone to LH.... his choice, you only have to be junior once!
Anyway back to the thread... good luck to those applying.
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Bex88.... No choice, low to no roster satisfaction and all enforced by BALPA. I even took this up with AB and all I got was a shrug of the shoulders.
I think you will find Bex88, Balpa have done exactly what they are there to do...consult members, ballot, and when no agreement was reached escalate this as a failure to agree with the company.
Bigger battles ahead, such as the up coming pay negotiations, which will have a far greater effect on the careers and lives of all the pilots within BA.
Maybe this is why Flt Ops capitutaled on it??
I think you will find Bex88, Balpa have done exactly what they are there to do...consult members, ballot, and when no agreement was reached escalate this as a failure to agree with the company.
Bigger battles ahead, such as the up coming pay negotiations, which will have a far greater effect on the careers and lives of all the pilots within BA.
Maybe this is why Flt Ops capitutaled on it??
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Good luck to those applying.
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Makes no difference to you Kendrick, it only affects the ex BMI captains and all of them are senior to you wherever they end up anyway. This thread is historically known for thread drift (guilty in that respect myself) so don’t worry too much about it.
Personally I think JSS will be better for Short Haul (virtually no one wants a mixture of daytips and tours which is all 90% of the Triplines are, although it remains to be seen how effectively you can build a roster consisting of either day trips or tours and a lot will depend on seniority/knowing the correct JSS tweaks). I suspect for Long Haul it will be a ****show compared to Bidline, but who knows?
Personally I think JSS will be better for Short Haul (virtually no one wants a mixture of daytips and tours which is all 90% of the Triplines are, although it remains to be seen how effectively you can build a roster consisting of either day trips or tours and a lot will depend on seniority/knowing the correct JSS tweaks). I suspect for Long Haul it will be a ****show compared to Bidline, but who knows?
The BMI issue and it's ultimate resolution - perhaps, perhaps not.
JSS - well if someone is planning on joining BA because it they have been led to believe it has a "world leading rostering system" then I'd suggest it's introduction in place of Bidline, the lifestyle control it does or doesn't afford, and the sort rosters it will produce are highly relevant to a recruitment thread..
JSS - well if someone is planning on joining BA because it they have been led to believe it has a "world leading rostering system" then I'd suggest it's introduction in place of Bidline, the lifestyle control it does or doesn't afford, and the sort rosters it will produce are highly relevant to a recruitment thread..
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Yes, wiggy, I was alluding to the bmi issue. I'd like to think pilots were joining for a collective number of reasons rather than specifically the rostering system but clearly that's subjective and highly individual.
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JSS - well if someone is planning on joining BA because it they have been led to believe it has a "world leading rostering system" then I'd suggest it's introduction in place of Bidline, the lifestyle control it does or doesn't afford, and the sort rosters it will produce are highly relevant to a recruitment thread..
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Bidline: essentially the company publish the Trip Lines (each individual line is a roster) 6 weeks or so in advance of the month in question. The pilot workforce then bids for these lines of work in seniority order. So in theory the most senior pilot in the seat in question is effectively writing his own roster as he knows exactly what trips he will be doing and also the days off. Pilots will bid for lines based on weekends off or destinations or, in the case of the most senior, both of these variables hence the notion of writing your own roster. There are only so many trip lines, those who don’t have the required seniority for any of their choices of lines will have their roster written for them by the company with the reconstituted trips of what is left over (blind line).
JSS: No real control whatsoever. You’re just expressing preferences for days off or particular types of trips/destinations but there is no guarantee that you will get any of what you want. It is not anywhere near as transparent as bidline. Still very seniority driven but there will also be inhibitors in place to stop the most senior just going to Cape Town (or insert your own desirable destination) four times a month. There are very real fears that inserting all of these inhibitors will end up in the programme being corrupted away from its original design, see the case of Carmen down in Gatwick where, in an attempt to please everybody, they have ended up with a programme that pleases nobody. That’s why Wiggy and others (including myself) have just described it as posh blindlines as even the most senior will have absolutely no idea what their roster will contain until the day of publication.
So whats new in that, you may perfectly reasonably ask if you’re coming from another airline. Trouble is it’s a severely retrograde step in being able to do what you want when you want and have control over the whole process, something that has been a unique selling point of BA for many years but is about to be a thing of the past.
JSS: No real control whatsoever. You’re just expressing preferences for days off or particular types of trips/destinations but there is no guarantee that you will get any of what you want. It is not anywhere near as transparent as bidline. Still very seniority driven but there will also be inhibitors in place to stop the most senior just going to Cape Town (or insert your own desirable destination) four times a month. There are very real fears that inserting all of these inhibitors will end up in the programme being corrupted away from its original design, see the case of Carmen down in Gatwick where, in an attempt to please everybody, they have ended up with a programme that pleases nobody. That’s why Wiggy and others (including myself) have just described it as posh blindlines as even the most senior will have absolutely no idea what their roster will contain until the day of publication.
So whats new in that, you may perfectly reasonably ask if you’re coming from another airline. Trouble is it’s a severely retrograde step in being able to do what you want when you want and have control over the whole process, something that has been a unique selling point of BA for many years but is about to be a thing of the past.
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It is far harder to fight change, once it has been implemented!
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Ok, is somebody able to tell me (I'm new to the pool, with alternative options......) what are the benefits of joining BA? I've no interest in LH and the only draw I can honestly see is the ability to do a bit of upper class travel. That, along with the hat doesn't cut it for me.
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Bidline: essentially the company publish the Trip Lines (each individual line is a roster) 6 weeks or so in advance of the month in question. The pilot workforce then bids for these lines of work in seniority order. So in theory the most senior pilot in the seat in question is effectively writing his own roster as he knows exactly what trips he will be doing and also the days off. Pilots will bid for lines based on weekends off or destinations or, in the case of the most senior, both of these variables hence the notion of writing your own roster. There are only so many trip lines, those who don’t have the required seniority for any of their choices of lines will have their roster written for them by the company with the reconstituted trips of what is left over (blind line).
JSS: No real control whatsoever. You’re just expressing preferences for days off or particular types of trips/destinations but there is no guarantee that you will get any of what you want. It is not anywhere near as transparent as bidline. Still very seniority driven but there will also be inhibitors in place to stop the most senior just going to Cape Town (or insert your own desirable destination) four times a month. There are very real fears that inserting all of these inhibitors will end up in the programme being corrupted away from its original design, see the case of Carmen down in Gatwick where, in an attempt to please everybody, they have ended up with a programme that pleases nobody. That’s why Wiggy and others (including myself) have just described it as posh blindlines as even the most senior will have absolutely no idea what their roster will contain until the day of publication.
So whats new in that, you may perfectly reasonably ask if you’re coming from another airline. Trouble is it’s a severely retrograde step in being able to do what you want when you want and have control over the whole process, something that has been a unique selling point of BA for many years but is about to be a thing of the past.
JSS: No real control whatsoever. You’re just expressing preferences for days off or particular types of trips/destinations but there is no guarantee that you will get any of what you want. It is not anywhere near as transparent as bidline. Still very seniority driven but there will also be inhibitors in place to stop the most senior just going to Cape Town (or insert your own desirable destination) four times a month. There are very real fears that inserting all of these inhibitors will end up in the programme being corrupted away from its original design, see the case of Carmen down in Gatwick where, in an attempt to please everybody, they have ended up with a programme that pleases nobody. That’s why Wiggy and others (including myself) have just described it as posh blindlines as even the most senior will have absolutely no idea what their roster will contain until the day of publication.
So whats new in that, you may perfectly reasonably ask if you’re coming from another airline. Trouble is it’s a severely retrograde step in being able to do what you want when you want and have control over the whole process, something that has been a unique selling point of BA for many years but is about to be a thing of the past.
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Ok, is somebody able to tell me (I'm new to the pool, with alternative options......) what are the benefits of joining BA? I've no interest in LH and the only draw I can honestly see is the ability to do a bit of upper class travel. That, along with the hat doesn't cut it for me.
If if you have no interest in long haul, think you’ll do a lot of upper class travel, don’t want to wear the stupid hat and you have other options, hop out of the pool, son, here’s your towel. Seriously, you’ll be miserable here.
As for the “ doesn’t cut it for me” comment... I’m pretty sure our community will be alright without you.
Good luck with with your career, sir.
Cheers
Buter
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Ok, is somebody able to tell me (I'm new to the pool, with alternative options......) what are the benefits of joining BA? I've no interest in LH and the only draw I can honestly see is the ability to do a bit of upper class travel. That, along with the hat doesn't cut it for me.
They had 1000 applicants in a 2 week recruiting window so they can probably struggle on without you.
Morning all, Firstly may I commend RexB’s descriptions of both Bidline and JSS to the house....
Paddington..
Unless you have a burning desire to do shorthaul out of London I can’t see why BA would be of interest, though TBF I don’t live the BA shorthaul dream...
As for travelling in Premium cabins.... I’m not sure how the recruiters / advertising sells that benefit but you have a very limited number of those particular tickets and despite everything there are no guarantees about getting on a flight and where you will end up seated (and it can get really difficult if you are travelling as a family ).
Many a staff traveller with First or Club entitlement has ended up on a jumpseat......
Paddington..
Unless you have a burning desire to do shorthaul out of London I can’t see why BA would be of interest, though TBF I don’t live the BA shorthaul dream...
As for travelling in Premium cabins.... I’m not sure how the recruiters / advertising sells that benefit but you have a very limited number of those particular tickets and despite everything there are no guarantees about getting on a flight and where you will end up seated (and it can get really difficult if you are travelling as a family ).
Many a staff traveller with First or Club entitlement has ended up on a jumpseat......
Last edited by wiggy; 5th Aug 2018 at 08:50.
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Thanks Wiggy.
I did put a huge effort into this. In fact, I'm not ashamed to admit it was my fourth attempt. If anything, merely passing this process is satisfying in itself.
I have obviously followed this thread with great interest and ask my original question based on reports from people who are very obviously within BA at the moment, and can tell me how it is.
Cheers and all the best to those applying.
I did put a huge effort into this. In fact, I'm not ashamed to admit it was my fourth attempt. If anything, merely passing this process is satisfying in itself.
I have obviously followed this thread with great interest and ask my original question based on reports from people who are very obviously within BA at the moment, and can tell me how it is.
Cheers and all the best to those applying.
