BA Direct Entry Pilot.
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Maybe, however at the time when I was in the pool a very senior BA Captain explained something to me. He agreed that waving goodbye to a pool of experienced pilots, who were in continued flying practice and whom had considerable time & money invested in their recruitment, was indeed criminal. However, according to him, if this had been the 'done thing' in BA since the dawn of time then it could be a very difficult process to change, especially if the people who were in support of it were any way influential (leading members of HR! 
)
However, back in 2012/13, circumstances were quite different. IAG were to purchase bmi and as a result they would be required to integrate a massive number of pilots onto the BA list. PP24 would also no longer be available, something that was on the cards when I entered the pool! Additionally, the first batch of the FPP lads and ladies would filter through and would take priority (could you imagine the PR disaster if they didn't get flying jobs!). Towards the end of my tenure in the pool, the forecast for any further DEP recruitment was bleak. Little did anyone know that in under 12 months it would skyrocket to beyond anything that the airline had ever encountered. Funny place aviation. Luckily my plan B came to fruition around this time and I haven't looked back. Still, in hindsight, it was nice to have a go at the DEP assessments and be successful (well, sort of successful).
)However, back in 2012/13, circumstances were quite different. IAG were to purchase bmi and as a result they would be required to integrate a massive number of pilots onto the BA list. PP24 would also no longer be available, something that was on the cards when I entered the pool! Additionally, the first batch of the FPP lads and ladies would filter through and would take priority (could you imagine the PR disaster if they didn't get flying jobs!). Towards the end of my tenure in the pool, the forecast for any further DEP recruitment was bleak. Little did anyone know that in under 12 months it would skyrocket to beyond anything that the airline had ever encountered. Funny place aviation. Luckily my plan B came to fruition around this time and I haven't looked back. Still, in hindsight, it was nice to have a go at the DEP assessments and be successful (well, sort of successful).
Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 1st Mar 2018 at 22:00.
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I have to say I'm becoming highly sceptical of who is writing some of these replies. FR Management possibly to stem to the outflow of pilots and attract newcomers?.. Nothing surprises me! It crosses my mind as some of the comments are not balanced and very anti BA, suggesting FR maybe better.
Madness and very worrying! Whilst I can't comment on Easy and whether people maybe happy to stay there, the only thing I can say is 4 sector days are not enjoyable and the lack of variety in the job over a lifetime would surely become dull for most.
I can comment on FR and stress it is not a nice place to work for many many reasons. Firstly the money is only better if you are based in the UK or Ireland on a fr contract(Captain). Anywhere else in Europe it's not. Tax situation is messy and its pointless comparing pay to contractor guys as they are most probably avoiding paying tax for the most part which is a risky and stressful game.
Ive witnessed HMRC chasing guys down in crew rooms and heard of police involvement around Europe. Not knowing if you will have your home repossesed if you ever get caught out is not a way to live and guys talk about running off to the Middle East if it ever came to it to avoid prosecution.
Personally I didn't get involved in any of that as its not worth the stress. So money aside whats its like. Everyone is miserable. I don't know many people who enjoy going to work. 4 sector days plus are hell and doing that 5 days in a row with minimum rest will probably put guys in an early grave. The guys doing it a long time In there 50's look exhausted and have an emptiness in their eyes.
Being based in London Stansted is a miserable. Crap facilities (most in the network becoming portacabin's) , no one smiles, you look like a janitor wearing the ridiculous blue company coat, people don't like you because you work for fr, no pride in the job, lack of respect from most people. No pay for standbys, no pay for anything outside of block hours so delays you work for free ( there are a lot of delays!), no food or drinks even when you have been working for free for 8 hours sat at the gate. Constantly being disturbed during rest periods to do favours and change duties.
Management have little respect for you and are always on the offensive. People are being called to head office to explain being sick for as little as 3/4 days in the year and given formal warnings and threatened that they will be dismissed if they call in sick again. If you have a few minutes delay for very legitimate reasons then expect to be called up by management who will blame you and give you a warning. Such a joy operating for them.
Also If guys are getting paid more than BA, remember that FR pilots are working their absolute max hours in the conditions mentioned. Money certainly isn't everything and especially if its only marginally more, having to put up with so much. Hotels are truly dreadful with no transfers arranged a lot of the time(wait months to be paid back for expenses).
I could go on and on with endless examples. Everything I've mentioned is 100% true with no exaggeration. The proof is in the pudding. Masses are leaving FR and more than 80% of guys I talk to are applying to leave. Anyone defending it, defend the statistics as they speak for themselves.
Madness and very worrying! Whilst I can't comment on Easy and whether people maybe happy to stay there, the only thing I can say is 4 sector days are not enjoyable and the lack of variety in the job over a lifetime would surely become dull for most.
I can comment on FR and stress it is not a nice place to work for many many reasons. Firstly the money is only better if you are based in the UK or Ireland on a fr contract(Captain). Anywhere else in Europe it's not. Tax situation is messy and its pointless comparing pay to contractor guys as they are most probably avoiding paying tax for the most part which is a risky and stressful game.
Ive witnessed HMRC chasing guys down in crew rooms and heard of police involvement around Europe. Not knowing if you will have your home repossesed if you ever get caught out is not a way to live and guys talk about running off to the Middle East if it ever came to it to avoid prosecution.
Personally I didn't get involved in any of that as its not worth the stress. So money aside whats its like. Everyone is miserable. I don't know many people who enjoy going to work. 4 sector days plus are hell and doing that 5 days in a row with minimum rest will probably put guys in an early grave. The guys doing it a long time In there 50's look exhausted and have an emptiness in their eyes.
Being based in London Stansted is a miserable. Crap facilities (most in the network becoming portacabin's) , no one smiles, you look like a janitor wearing the ridiculous blue company coat, people don't like you because you work for fr, no pride in the job, lack of respect from most people. No pay for standbys, no pay for anything outside of block hours so delays you work for free ( there are a lot of delays!), no food or drinks even when you have been working for free for 8 hours sat at the gate. Constantly being disturbed during rest periods to do favours and change duties.
Management have little respect for you and are always on the offensive. People are being called to head office to explain being sick for as little as 3/4 days in the year and given formal warnings and threatened that they will be dismissed if they call in sick again. If you have a few minutes delay for very legitimate reasons then expect to be called up by management who will blame you and give you a warning. Such a joy operating for them.
Also If guys are getting paid more than BA, remember that FR pilots are working their absolute max hours in the conditions mentioned. Money certainly isn't everything and especially if its only marginally more, having to put up with so much. Hotels are truly dreadful with no transfers arranged a lot of the time(wait months to be paid back for expenses).
I could go on and on with endless examples. Everything I've mentioned is 100% true with no exaggeration. The proof is in the pudding. Masses are leaving FR and more than 80% of guys I talk to are applying to leave. Anyone defending it, defend the statistics as they speak for themselves.
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A bit harsh I feel. He/she only saying it as he/she sees it. And actually if you do withdraw the likelihood increases.
2015 - I left easyJet and joined BA on the A320.
I love the job and I'm happy I work for BA (it isn't perfect and its best days are certainly behind it, but name me an airline where this isn't true), overall I'm glad I left easyJet.
Take the negative comments here with a pinch of salt, the problem with most of the bitter old BA pilots is that they've only ever worked for BA and they don't realise how good they've had it, or how good they currently have it.
They'll tell you the 747 is a sh1t fleet to be on, that it used to be fantastic - but if you're joining from easyJet/Ryanair it's still going to be a fantastic experience compared to lugging 180 tracksuit wearing Brits around Europe.
I love the job and I'm happy I work for BA (it isn't perfect and its best days are certainly behind it, but name me an airline where this isn't true), overall I'm glad I left easyJet.
Take the negative comments here with a pinch of salt, the problem with most of the bitter old BA pilots is that they've only ever worked for BA and they don't realise how good they've had it, or how good they currently have it.
They'll tell you the 747 is a sh1t fleet to be on, that it used to be fantastic - but if you're joining from easyJet/Ryanair it's still going to be a fantastic experience compared to lugging 180 tracksuit wearing Brits around Europe.
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Happiness remains V1 at LHR though.
For me it comes once I've left the BS bravado of the CRC behind.
Some pilots are currently getting their knickers in a twist because current ops have made voluntary airport standby available for long haul pilots to help with snow disruption - BUT THESE ARE ONLY MEANT FOR SHORT HAUL PILOTS! God forbid..
If you don't want to do it don't volunteer and move on with your life.
Some pilots are currently getting their knickers in a twist because current ops have made voluntary airport standby available for long haul pilots to help with snow disruption - BUT THESE ARE ONLY MEANT FOR SHORT HAUL PILOTS! God forbid..
If you don't want to do it don't volunteer and move on with your life.
Student88
Want to put some numbers on that? I can’t speak for the bitterness percentage but the top of the seniority list is actually more diverse in terms of background than it has ever been, or possibly likely to be...
The older pilots are mostly mid 1980’s/ early 90’s DEPs who almost all had been around the block a bit and had flown for some time before joining BA (ex-mil/Brittania/Air Europe/ and a thousand and one outfits now long forgotten...plus a few who came up the self improver route) plus a few of the very senior original ex Prestwick cadets who you obviously can tag as only ever working for BA. It’s no longer rammed with pilots who went through the same training school on the south coast.
, the problem with most of the bitter old BA pilots is that they've only ever worked for BA
Want to put some numbers on that? I can’t speak for the bitterness percentage but the top of the seniority list is actually more diverse in terms of background than it has ever been, or possibly likely to be...
The older pilots are mostly mid 1980’s/ early 90’s DEPs who almost all had been around the block a bit and had flown for some time before joining BA (ex-mil/Brittania/Air Europe/ and a thousand and one outfits now long forgotten...plus a few who came up the self improver route) plus a few of the very senior original ex Prestwick cadets who you obviously can tag as only ever working for BA. It’s no longer rammed with pilots who went through the same training school on the south coast.
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Take the negative comments here with a pinch of salt, the problem with most of the bitter old BA pilots is that they've only ever worked for BA and they don't realise how good they've had it, or how good they currently have it.
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Student88
Want to put some numbers on that? I can’t speak for the bitterness percentage but the top of the seniority list is actually more diverse in terms of background than it has ever been, or possibly likely to be...
The older pilots are mostly mid 1980’s/ early 90’s DEPs who almost all had been around the block a bit and had flown for some time before joining BA (ex-mil/Brittania/Air Europe/ and a thousand and one outfits now long forgotten...plus a few who came up the self improver route) plus a few of the very senior original ex Prestwick cadets who you obviously can tag as only ever working for BA. It’s no longer rammed with pilots who went through the same training school on the south coast.
Want to put some numbers on that? I can’t speak for the bitterness percentage but the top of the seniority list is actually more diverse in terms of background than it has ever been, or possibly likely to be...
The older pilots are mostly mid 1980’s/ early 90’s DEPs who almost all had been around the block a bit and had flown for some time before joining BA (ex-mil/Brittania/Air Europe/ and a thousand and one outfits now long forgotten...plus a few who came up the self improver route) plus a few of the very senior original ex Prestwick cadets who you obviously can tag as only ever working for BA. It’s no longer rammed with pilots who went through the same training school on the south coast.
I don't think it's unfair to suggest that most BA captains, certainly most LH BA Captains at any rate, are unlikely to have experienced the real low-cost world that started with the birth of Ryanair. How many could honestly hold their hands up and say they have worked 5 days of 4 sector days, 25 minute turn arounds, helping to clean the aircraft, filling up water bottles from taps outside portacabins, not getting any food or drink provided, paying for their own hotels...the list goes on.
Full disclosure; I can't say I've experienced that level of low cost either. It sounds horrific and I tend to agree with jettropo above that its interesting, at the very least, that people have popped up on this thread to make the case for Ryanair, just as BA launches a large recruitment drive. Particularly bearing in mind the well documented retention issues at Ryanair currently.
EDITED to add: Many of us in the RHS won't have experience of ultra low cost either. My point is that whether we like to admit it or not, some (most, all?) of us have probably forgotten or never knew the worst excesses of the low-cost end of the industry. I'm not suggesting we shouldn't fight to protect what we have either, just that we should be aware that what we have is still a pretty good deal, comparatively speaking.
Last edited by Northern Monkey; 3rd Mar 2018 at 08:56.
I don't think it's unfair to suggest that most BA captains, certainly most LH BA Captains at any rate, are unlikely to have experienced the real low-cost world that started with the birth of Ryanair.
How many could honestly hold their hands up and say they have worked 5 days of 4 sector days, 25 minute turn arounds, helping to clean the aircraft, filling up water bottles from taps outside portacabins, not getting any food or drink provided, paying for their own hotels...the list goes on
I think some of the supposed “ bitterness” is down to some of the older pilots experiences before BA, and their intimate knowledge, gained from years of experience of how “BA” can behave when it suits them.
BTW I take it those here who couldn’t get to work because of the snow have written their letter to the headmaster.........
Last edited by wiggy; 3rd Mar 2018 at 09:19.
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The realities of the Irish world may seem like they are many hours flight time away when you fly longhaul for BA but rest assured the aircraft is heading in that direction and it's only a matter of time before you land and you might not know it until you are filling up your water bottle outside the Heathrow porta cabin on day 5.
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This threat has been off topic for far too long now! If your stupid enough to believe the majority of recent comments on here, don’t apply!
If your not, apply and come on in! It’s great, Iv never been happier!
If your not, apply and come on in! It’s great, Iv never been happier!
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