BA Direct Entry Pilot.
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but given that BA would have needed to negotiate a different system for long haul, BALPA should have been able to come up with something more advantageous for all.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Point of Order if I may?
BA wanted rid of Bidline.
BA wanted rid of Bidline because they couldn’t build CAP achieving Blindlines from the rubbish left over, after Tripline holders, (and T0 bidders!) had taken their picks. Inability to work the most junior pilots to CAP, resulted in two problems: Firstly BA had to employ ‘additional’ pilots to support Bidline. Secondly, work was left over (uncovered) after rosters were issued.
Despite the problem being highlighted countless times by BALPA, BA pilots played into BA’s hands by refusing or avoiding draft at the a/c side. Many of us are aware of the ‘extreme lengths’ some colleagues went to, to avoid meeting a manager after landing!
BA have successfully negotiated a solution to the problem of work coverage, by introducing JSS. (A system that will ensure all pilots can work to CAP. Their contractually agreed workload!) BA pilots voted in favour of this solution!
The current system of Final Assign, is merely ‘life support’ to allow Bidline to continue in Intensive Care until it draws it’s last breath. Nobody can now avoid it by claiming too short notice. Nobody can now avoid it by running from managers in terminals wearing fancy dress!
Any company should reasonably expect it’s workforce to be able to ‘produce’ it’s contracted hours. Saying BA employed too few pilots at the time, may well be partly correct. But BA could always demonstrate they had sufficient pilots if the work was distributed evenly amongst them. Individual preferences for some, simply allowed Bidline to prevent that from happening. When BA PILOTS withdrew their support for the system. What were BA supposed to do?
JSS will put total control of roster satisfaction, in the hands of those controlling establishment! BA pilots’ bidding and behaviour demanded that. BA pilots voted for it.
QED
All Devil’s Advocate obviously!
BA wanted rid of Bidline.
BA wanted rid of Bidline because they couldn’t build CAP achieving Blindlines from the rubbish left over, after Tripline holders, (and T0 bidders!) had taken their picks. Inability to work the most junior pilots to CAP, resulted in two problems: Firstly BA had to employ ‘additional’ pilots to support Bidline. Secondly, work was left over (uncovered) after rosters were issued.
Despite the problem being highlighted countless times by BALPA, BA pilots played into BA’s hands by refusing or avoiding draft at the a/c side. Many of us are aware of the ‘extreme lengths’ some colleagues went to, to avoid meeting a manager after landing!
BA have successfully negotiated a solution to the problem of work coverage, by introducing JSS. (A system that will ensure all pilots can work to CAP. Their contractually agreed workload!) BA pilots voted in favour of this solution!
The current system of Final Assign, is merely ‘life support’ to allow Bidline to continue in Intensive Care until it draws it’s last breath. Nobody can now avoid it by claiming too short notice. Nobody can now avoid it by running from managers in terminals wearing fancy dress!
Any company should reasonably expect it’s workforce to be able to ‘produce’ it’s contracted hours. Saying BA employed too few pilots at the time, may well be partly correct. But BA could always demonstrate they had sufficient pilots if the work was distributed evenly amongst them. Individual preferences for some, simply allowed Bidline to prevent that from happening. When BA PILOTS withdrew their support for the system. What were BA supposed to do?
JSS will put total control of roster satisfaction, in the hands of those controlling establishment! BA pilots’ bidding and behaviour demanded that. BA pilots voted for it.
QED
All Devil’s Advocate obviously!
Join Date: Aug 2017
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But you will struggle to find a much better pension elsewhere, especially in the UK.
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Just for information; I've recently left BA to take a command at Ryanair. Spent several years as a Longhaul DEP but it's going nowhere; BA went from a Legacy carrier to a Longhaul LoCo in the space of several years... And I figured if I'm going to work for a LoCo I might as well work for one that pays more than BA.
It's sad but there you have it.
All of the former reasons for joining are no longer there; bidline, pension, 24 point payscale, early shorthaul command, early retirement and working less than 850hrs per year... And Alex Cruz isn't done yet; not by a long shot. All that's left now is prestige, I tried paying for my groceries the other day with that, but they wouldn't take it.
Obviously make your own decison, but I've made mine; I'm out.
It's sad but there you have it.
All of the former reasons for joining are no longer there; bidline, pension, 24 point payscale, early shorthaul command, early retirement and working less than 850hrs per year... And Alex Cruz isn't done yet; not by a long shot. All that's left now is prestige, I tried paying for my groceries the other day with that, but they wouldn't take it.
Obviously make your own decison, but I've made mine; I'm out.
If you are so conversant with bidline rules and their origins,
FWIW in my "office" I have an unamended paper copy of Bidline rules from 2010.... In the loft somewhere I've actually got my set from around '90 and looking at that really would make eyes water...every time I hear someone say we are still working to Bidline I have to "box the chimp".
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: The lovely Norfolk countryside
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BA Managed Path
Hey all, anyone know:
If the last round of BA managed path a success? Did BA get what they thought they were getting...?
Are BA planning on running another managed path campaign?
Hope somebody out there is in the know!
If the last round of BA managed path a success? Did BA get what they thought they were getting...?
Are BA planning on running another managed path campaign?
Hope somebody out there is in the know!
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
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GS-Alpha
Hang on, it was not the “fresh new” workforce that VOTED to get rid of PP24, Bidline, Fixed pay or NAPS! Stop voting yes to things and maybe the T and Cs will stop reducing!
Hang on, it was not the “fresh new” workforce that VOTED to get rid of PP24, Bidline, Fixed pay or NAPS! Stop voting yes to things and maybe the T and Cs will stop reducing!
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Straight Outta Compton
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Enzo999 beat me to it. It's monumentally ironic to hear to people complain that DEPs ruined it all by first working for LoCos, then being happy with their lot at BA, when the majority of those people voted for the 34 year Pay Point, BARP, etc
As a matter of fact, the current EZY membership could give the BA membership a few lessons in standing up to the company. The EZY FRMS is rock solid compared to BA's. And the recent agreement to get rid of the infamous Flexicrew contract was a major union achievement. And let's not forget the resolve it must have taken to get union recognition at Ryanair.
As a matter of fact, the current EZY membership could give the BA membership a few lessons in standing up to the company. The EZY FRMS is rock solid compared to BA's. And the recent agreement to get rid of the infamous Flexicrew contract was a major union achievement. And let's not forget the resolve it must have taken to get union recognition at Ryanair.
Join Date: Apr 2017
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To clarify some points that were raised;
- Yes I did bid for shorthaul command every year from day one; all I got was Equipment Freeze.
- Treated with respect and professionalism at BA? All new joiners are made to wear two stripes for four years as a junior FO regardless of prior experience. A380 FO’s aren’t even trusted to land the aircraft for the first several months.
- Industry leading Pension? I would have had to retire at 65 on £8000,- per year annuity. And that’s with maximum contributions into BARP 2.0
- BA wants JSS over Bidline; that’s all you need to know.
- 3 to 4 trips on LH per month? More like 5 or 6; the only change when you have a week’s leave is that the same number of trips are scheduled closer together.
- Final salary of plus £200k? Not according to the 34 year pay scale that the majority of DEP’s will never reach the top of. It’s more like £168k (excl flight pay), if you are still full time that is after 33 years of doing 900hrs p/a.
- Planning your life with a fixed roster? How about doing 21 day reserve periods several times per year...
- And dare I mention; most of these decreases in T&C’s were voted in by senior ‘colleagues’. Secure in the knowledge they would never be applied to them; just the new joiners. Welcome to BARP I guess…
I could go on of course, but fear to damage the delicate sensibilities of those who’s only justification seems to be that they’ve had it worse somewhere else before... What can I say, I’ve had it better.
- Yes I did bid for shorthaul command every year from day one; all I got was Equipment Freeze.
- Treated with respect and professionalism at BA? All new joiners are made to wear two stripes for four years as a junior FO regardless of prior experience. A380 FO’s aren’t even trusted to land the aircraft for the first several months.
- Industry leading Pension? I would have had to retire at 65 on £8000,- per year annuity. And that’s with maximum contributions into BARP 2.0
- BA wants JSS over Bidline; that’s all you need to know.
- 3 to 4 trips on LH per month? More like 5 or 6; the only change when you have a week’s leave is that the same number of trips are scheduled closer together.
- Final salary of plus £200k? Not according to the 34 year pay scale that the majority of DEP’s will never reach the top of. It’s more like £168k (excl flight pay), if you are still full time that is after 33 years of doing 900hrs p/a.
- Planning your life with a fixed roster? How about doing 21 day reserve periods several times per year...
- And dare I mention; most of these decreases in T&C’s were voted in by senior ‘colleagues’. Secure in the knowledge they would never be applied to them; just the new joiners. Welcome to BARP I guess…
I could go on of course, but fear to damage the delicate sensibilities of those who’s only justification seems to be that they’ve had it worse somewhere else before... What can I say, I’ve had it better.
Join Date: Feb 2018
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Slight redirect,
Does anyone know if BA will ever run another Managed Path recruitment push?
Did the last managed path recruitment program produce the results BA were expecting?
Does anyone know if BA will ever run another Managed Path recruitment push?
Did the last managed path recruitment program produce the results BA were expecting?
Join Date: Feb 2008
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[QUOTE=Doppio;10065671]To clarify some points that were raised;
“ All new joiners are made to wear two stripes for four years as a junior FO regardless of prior experience.”
I actually agree with that, what’s the point in giving every FO at the likes of Ryanair 3 stripes when they get 1500 hours? Pointless and defeats the object!
“ A380 FO’s aren’t even trusted to land the aircraft for the first several months. “
There was very good reason for this, 12 aircraft, 20DEP’s?! There would have been a lot of people going out of recency if these were all trained at the same time!
“ 3 to 4 trips on LH per month? More like 5 or 6; the only change when you have a week’s leave is that the same number of trips are scheduled closer together.”
Iv never done more that 4 trips, and when I have iv bid for it to build bank or picked up an overtime trip!
“ All new joiners are made to wear two stripes for four years as a junior FO regardless of prior experience.”
I actually agree with that, what’s the point in giving every FO at the likes of Ryanair 3 stripes when they get 1500 hours? Pointless and defeats the object!
“ A380 FO’s aren’t even trusted to land the aircraft for the first several months. “
There was very good reason for this, 12 aircraft, 20DEP’s?! There would have been a lot of people going out of recency if these were all trained at the same time!
“ 3 to 4 trips on LH per month? More like 5 or 6; the only change when you have a week’s leave is that the same number of trips are scheduled closer together.”
Iv never done more that 4 trips, and when I have iv bid for it to build bank or picked up an overtime trip!
Join Date: Oct 2017
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well, just read they want to flood the market with an additional 6,8% seats. So yeah I think every carrier in Europe is struggling getting Pilots. The two big bankruptcys have started the rollercoaster of Pilots. everybody tries to push into that market and we will have a capacity of 120% compared to that one Summer 2017. people sign, do the conversion course, and then leave for the next better option. this year is going to be the hell for HR and recruiting and especially the training departments. having people in the conversion, simulators blocked, and on line training and then left with 2-4 weeks notice period eats up all training capacity.
Just picking up on this:
That’s a fair point...the two rings has always led to certain incorrect and sometimes unfortunate assumptions being made by some both in the air and on the ground...I certainly think there is a case to be made for experienced new joiners to have three rings....though you’ll never get the company to agree to pay SFO rate from day one though.
Um...I’ll admit I haven’t heard that was the case and am a bit suprised...then again that is the fleet that didn’t even trust highly highly experienced Long Haul Boeing pilots to transfer directly to the aircraft for the first year or two...... 
I can promise you not all “senior colleagues” buy into the BALPA line...and the demography of the JSS vote would be interesting to see.
All new joiners are made to wear two stripes for four years as a junior FO regardless of prior experience.
A380 FO’s aren’t even trusted to land the aircraft for the first several months.
And dare I mention; most of these decreases in T&C’s were voted in by senior ‘colleagues’. Secure in the knowledge they would never be applied to them; just the new joiners. Welcome to BARP I guess…
Last edited by wiggy; 26th Feb 2018 at 16:06.
Join Date: Aug 2003
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There wasn't enough training capacity to run everyone through complete 380 conversions so some were selected to do just enough of the course to fly as cruise pilots. As soon as there was space in the training dept to complete the conversions, it was situation normal.
One of these cruise only pilots was so senior he's now since retired. It was nothing to do with trust.
I'm not defending BA, far from it. There's not a lot I disagree with from Doppio's post.
Yeah, we are a bit special. Not like 'good' special, more like a fleet full of window lickers...
One of these cruise only pilots was so senior he's now since retired. It was nothing to do with trust.
I'm not defending BA, far from it. There's not a lot I disagree with from Doppio's post.
Yeah, we are a bit special. Not like 'good' special, more like a fleet full of window lickers...
Ah, thanks.
FWIW BA had two and three ringers flying as temporary cruise pilots, and briefly cruise only lines, on the 744 twenty plus years back so it is not a new thing or necessarily a case of penalising the junior....
FWIW BA had two and three ringers flying as temporary cruise pilots, and briefly cruise only lines, on the 744 twenty plus years back so it is not a new thing or necessarily a case of penalising the junior....
