BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Enzo,you have missd the point. Virgin took 50 Monarch pilots because they were hugely experienced and could be online in a very short time, not just on the Airbus fleets. Whether the gig is going to be more than short term remains to be seen, but those that have gone there are hoping it is for the long term. Monarch people tend to be loyal and fully committed to their employer.
BA could have had the pick of over four hundred well trained annd highly experienced Airbus pilots if they had been quicker off the mark,
At the time Monarch went to the wall the BA hold pool, which contained a number of 320 rated pilots, appeared to be almost stagnant and BA didn’t see the need to leave the blocks, let alone be quicker off the mark than the likes of Virgin....
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IAG got exactly what they wanted from Monarch.... Slots at LGW and plenty of work for their mates in Qatar. If they wanted the crews they could have made a bid for the LGW bit of Monarch. Lets face it Easy could have had Monarch crews in MAN as well but it seems they also would rather use Qatar. Isn't the free global market wonderful 
Monarch is gone...lets move on.
Good luck and well done to all those getting picked up by BA, I'm sure you'll have a great time.
Now I must remember to change my profile name
Monarch is gone...lets move on.
Good luck and well done to all those getting picked up by BA, I'm sure you'll have a great time.
Now I must remember to change my profile name
But another point would be that IMHO that is an easy criticism to make with the benefit of hindsight.
At the time Monarch went to the wall the BA hold pool, which contained a number of 320 rated pilots, appeared to be almost stagnant and BA didn’t see the need to leave the blocks, let alone be quicker off the mark than the likes of iVirgin....
At the time Monarch went to the wall the BA hold pool, which contained a number of 320 rated pilots, appeared to be almost stagnant and BA didn’t see the need to leave the blocks, let alone be quicker off the mark than the likes of iVirgin....
Last edited by tubby linton; 6th Feb 2018 at 21:27.
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They obviously did not want the Gatwick operation, just the slots and they got exactly what they wanted. It is well documented BA can’t plan for toffee but I am sure they will have no problem filling their 320 positions.
.Based on your supposition Wiggy you are saying that your management has no forward vision
Fair enough?
As Enzo has said they will fill the LGW positions.
The whole thing is irrelevant to me,but I would like to have seen the experience of some of my colleagues appreciated, and the agony of months unemployed could have been curtailed.
Sorry the world doesn’t work like that. Ex Monarch pilots are no more loyal, skilled or experienced than the guys/girls already in the BA holding pool.
In fact those in the pool clearly wanted to join BA having gone through the process already, not simply because their own airline failed recently. How many of the people you refer applied to BA two years ago when the rest of us did?
The pool at BA probably has between 100-200 people swimming in it, some of which for 2 years all trying to better their careers with improved T&C’s and worklife etc. Why you imply there should be a god given right to jump from one of the best employers to the next and to do it sneakily via a back door, I don’t understand. I’m sure the monarch pilots could have applied the last time BA’s recruitment was open- and while you wish they had recognised your colleagues experience immediately after Monarch went under, at least they can all apply now and leapfrog the unrated souls in their pool.
A word of advice for the BA interview to your friends- think carefully about how you’ll answer BA’s first question to you, ‘So why do you want to join BA?’
In fact those in the pool clearly wanted to join BA having gone through the process already, not simply because their own airline failed recently. How many of the people you refer applied to BA two years ago when the rest of us did?
The pool at BA probably has between 100-200 people swimming in it, some of which for 2 years all trying to better their careers with improved T&C’s and worklife etc. Why you imply there should be a god given right to jump from one of the best employers to the next and to do it sneakily via a back door, I don’t understand. I’m sure the monarch pilots could have applied the last time BA’s recruitment was open- and while you wish they had recognised your colleagues experience immediately after Monarch went under, at least they can all apply now and leapfrog the unrated souls in their pool.
A word of advice for the BA interview to your friends- think carefully about how you’ll answer BA’s first question to you, ‘So why do you want to join BA?’
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tmtxpress Can we still expect a relatively fast upgrade to command on the SH fleet? Thanks.
Standard advice, just get in and see what opportunities come your way.
Good luck
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Commands were at around seniority 2200-300 ish. The rest of the commands down in the 3000’s are BMI protected ones. What do we have 4300 pilots now? I think junior commands were an exception and would expect with NAPS closing etc they may remain higher than we expect. Junior commands are not well rewarded financially and are really crap lifestyle wise. Each to their own but I would not join based on an assumption of quick command.
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I know this will have been covered before but would anyone mind confirming these numbers for a BA year 1 FO are still correct?
Salary - 56,529/yr
Flight pay - 9.94/hr
Duty pay - 3.52/hr
Based on 800 hours (approx £8k) and 1500 duty hours (approx £5300), I'm assuming total salary is about £70k gross, just under £4k/month after 6% pension contributions. Is this roughly accurate?
Salary - 56,529/yr
Flight pay - 9.94/hr
Duty pay - 3.52/hr
Based on 800 hours (approx £8k) and 1500 duty hours (approx £5300), I'm assuming total salary is about £70k gross, just under £4k/month after 6% pension contributions. Is this roughly accurate?
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I think junior commands were an exception and would expect with NAPS closing etc they may remain higher than we expect. Junior commands are not well rewarded financially and are really crap lifestyle wise. Each to their own but I would not join based on an assumption of quick command.
Not at all sure I agree? Number one. The effect of NAPS closure is debatable? Many of our LH senior copilots, simply can’t stomach the idea of a SH command. They’d prefer a smaller pension, or at the very least, pushing it to the last possible opportunity. After which many of them will undoubtedly miss out.
As far as SH commands providing a ‘crap’ lifestyle.. Two things. First, it just depends what you’re comparing it to? If it’s a ‘senior’ LH copilot’s life, then I accept, it’s sub optimal! Compare it to Easy, Jet2, Ryan...... Really?? I doubt it!
So, frankly, I personally imagine, there’s a fair chance that SH commands will remain fairly junior. Especially at LGW. Many people in BA simply hold their nose at the idea of ‘dirty’ SH!
That’s the truth. Life is (currently!) just TOO comfy on LH!
It will change.
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I notice on the holdpool update email it mentioned, “Longhaul offers for the moment are being made to those with a current Boeing rating”. Does this mean Boeing only until the number of Boeing rated Pilots in the pool runs out? Or are they going to change to include those who are not Boeing rated too? Any idea on how many LH offers are likely to be made? I appreciate most offers will be for the A320.
4468 - Have you been a Captain at Easy/Jet2/Ryan and BA? Seeing as though it has been mentioned on here that it takes about 13 years inside BA to get the SH command salary close to that of the three LoCo’s you mention, please tell me what the lifestyle is like at BA as a junior Captain that makes it worth it. Bearing in mind two of those LoCo’s have a package worth in excess of £120k a year before bonuses with a fixed roster pattern and home each night - ideal for a having a life outside of work.
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Many of our LH senior copilots, simply can’t stomach the idea of a SH command. They’d prefer a smaller pension, or at the very least, pushing it to the last possible opportunity.
The top of the seniority long haul SFOs will unlikely now start bidding for short haul commands, because that would freeze them off a long haul command for five years and that’s where they really want to be. The more junior NAPS SFOs will probably just bid for short haul commands immediately (if they value their pensions over their current lifestyles - although I suspect many won’t, because they don’t totally believe they’ll ever receive the pension). It is the middle ground who will probably wait a year or so before starting to bid for short haul commands, just to see how things are looking and whether they might just squeak a long haul command in time. They are the one ones who are taking a little bit of a gamble and may end up losing out if there is a bit of a downturn in command availability.
However overall, I think all of the above means there will probably be very limited availability of new LHR commands to any BARP seniority pilots for the next five years (after 2018). There will also be several (although not all) pp16 capped LGW Captains bidding for LHR too. I suspect the only short haul command availability to BARP seniority pilots will be at LGW.
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There are definitely some downsides of taking a shortfall command early on (even if it is available to you). I'm talking about those who achieve their command within the first 2/3 years in BA, which is historically unlikely anyway.
1. Zero or close to zero roster control (indefinitely)
2. Frequent reserve periods
3. One of the lowest command salaries in the UK for an A320 command.
4. Potentially years of stagnation as senior pilots transfer across ahead of you
If an A320 command is your thing and you're not interested in long haul it makes zero sense to leave somewhere like easyJet IMO.
If you join as an FO anytime soon you have a decent chance of achieving some lifestyle control pretty quickly based on the latest estimates for recruitment. What you then do is up to you.
As was said to me when I joined, you only HAVE to be junior once.
1. Zero or close to zero roster control (indefinitely)
2. Frequent reserve periods
3. One of the lowest command salaries in the UK for an A320 command.
4. Potentially years of stagnation as senior pilots transfer across ahead of you
If an A320 command is your thing and you're not interested in long haul it makes zero sense to leave somewhere like easyJet IMO.
If you join as an FO anytime soon you have a decent chance of achieving some lifestyle control pretty quickly based on the latest estimates for recruitment. What you then do is up to you.
As was said to me when I joined, you only HAVE to be junior once.
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4468 - Have you been a Captain at Easy/Jet2/Ryan and BA? Seeing as though it has been mentioned on here that it takes about 13 years inside BA to get the SH command salary close to that of the three LoCo’s you mention, please tell me what the lifestyle is like at BA as a junior Captain that makes it worth it. Bearing in mind two of those LoCo’s have a package worth in excess of £120k a year before bonuses with a fixed roster pattern and home each night - ideal for a having a life outside of work.
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I completely disagree with that! I felt like I was a financial inconvenience to the management at my previous LoCo. I had to flight for everything while there, I couldn’t face another couple of years working there, let alone another 35! Albeit I got a Longhaul position here, I would have taken SH, the majority of my friends did and are very happy. My work life is no longer stressful and therefore my home life has become stress free. I think the majority of this has to do with the attitude and culture at BA, where pilots are still treated like professionals, left to get on with the job!
