Norwegian A320neo order
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Alexander De Meerkat
The "some reason" I am not very well disposed to EYZ has something to do with the way they have acted.
I was commuting a lot to Spain and at the time my wife was very ill ( and died later) one night EZY bumped me off a flight to the UK because they said it was full, they offered me a hotel and €250 compensation, less than the statutory €400 for a flight of the distance in question. This left me having to sort out someone to be with my wife at 22:00 at night and caused a great deal in the way of family problems with her sister having to drive a considerable distance at a very late hour. To be fair to the EZY complants department they did go a long way to adressing the financal issues.
While not altogether happy I was content that they had done all they could after the event to redress the balance................... Then on my very next flight with EZY they try the same stunt, they tell me I'm off loaded and offer the incorrect compensation !!! Fortunately I had the previous flights email conversation with the complants department with me, showing this to the gate staff got me on the aircraft and no doubt some other passenger was offloaded in my place.
I except the terms of travel, if I don't turn up in good time for a flight I get offloaded and I loose the money, but if I turn up on time I expect there to be a seat to sit on. Clearly overbooking has become EZY practice and as such I try to avoid doing business with them as they can no longer be trusted to provide the travel I have paid for.
I was commuting a lot to Spain and at the time my wife was very ill ( and died later) one night EZY bumped me off a flight to the UK because they said it was full, they offered me a hotel and €250 compensation, less than the statutory €400 for a flight of the distance in question. This left me having to sort out someone to be with my wife at 22:00 at night and caused a great deal in the way of family problems with her sister having to drive a considerable distance at a very late hour. To be fair to the EZY complants department they did go a long way to adressing the financal issues.
While not altogether happy I was content that they had done all they could after the event to redress the balance................... Then on my very next flight with EZY they try the same stunt, they tell me I'm off loaded and offer the incorrect compensation !!! Fortunately I had the previous flights email conversation with the complants department with me, showing this to the gate staff got me on the aircraft and no doubt some other passenger was offloaded in my place.
I except the terms of travel, if I don't turn up in good time for a flight I get offloaded and I loose the money, but if I turn up on time I expect there to be a seat to sit on. Clearly overbooking has become EZY practice and as such I try to avoid doing business with them as they can no longer be trusted to provide the travel I have paid for.
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A & C - first of all, no one at easyJet wants to have any customer have a bad experience, particularly when they are facing difficult family circumstances. Let me genuinely apologise on behalf of easyJet for that unacceptable treatment. Nonetheless, every airline in the world has these issues and we are sadly no exception. That does not mean we should accept this as the norm (and we most certainly do not), but every legacy and low cost airline has numerous issues of customer satisfaction to deal with. It is probably no consolation to you, but I too have had some utterly frustrating experiences involving easyJet staff (and indeed many other airlines) - and I work for them! Nonetheless, I would have to say that I have had countless more good experiences and see every day the efforts made by the team to put the customer first. There has been a revolution in low cost thinking which we are at the forefront of and of which Ryanair are only now just thinking of catching up on. We know the customer is everything - a thought that was unthinkable a few years ago. To judge an airline on the basis of a couple of trips is simply not reasonable, given that we take over 60 million customers a year - the vast majority of whom love what we do and keep coming back for more. We have now one of the highest on time performance scores of any airline in Europe and we are striving for better. Our job is to take our customers from where they want to leave from to where they want to go, safely, comfortably, on time and at a great price. In the vast majority of cases we achieve that despite some enormous challenges along the way. No airline is exempt the difficulties you describe, and Norwegian certainly is not. It is what we do to put right the mistakes of the past that we, and all other airlines need to be judged on.
On other matters more pertinent to this thread, I was speaking to a chap only yesterday whose wife works for Norwegian. He was suggesting that the Airbuses are only being bought to be leased out - an interesting thought indeed. That would certainly make things easier for the recruitment team - they would hardly need any pilots at all! Anyway, I wait with interest and look forward to seeing the offers of 'golden hellos' to experienced Airbus captains and trainers to hit the pages of Flight International. It remains to be seen how many of those guys/gals would leave their current employers without a substantial inducement.
On other matters more pertinent to this thread, I was speaking to a chap only yesterday whose wife works for Norwegian. He was suggesting that the Airbuses are only being bought to be leased out - an interesting thought indeed. That would certainly make things easier for the recruitment team - they would hardly need any pilots at all! Anyway, I wait with interest and look forward to seeing the offers of 'golden hellos' to experienced Airbus captains and trainers to hit the pages of Flight International. It remains to be seen how many of those guys/gals would leave their current employers without a substantial inducement.
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mototopo,
there has been (for some time now ) a FCO rumour, so, I think it is safe to say that it will happen (as most base rumours in NAS have so far ) the exact timing ? well who knows, and Boeing give us "only" 15 aircraft (excluding "plastic-fantastic" deliveries ) this year so who knows exactly when.
Alex , I think it is fair to say that you, & my colleagues A&C & others, are doing a fantastic job of flying the flag for our respective current employers.
Lest we forget, the Harpies are on a "charm offensive" & they will always undercut us. I think Easy/NAS are on a different level, and the "crisis" has probably reduced the chav spend , so we are well placed to pick up the slightly more discerning end of the pax market . . .but, even if Wayne & Wynnetta stay home, RYR WILL adapt to tempt the slightly more genteel clientele I suspect.
We are all chasing the same punters, and they WILL be swayed by service, but even more by price. Hell, even the "filthy rich " Norwegians allow Ryanair to have a fairly substantial timetable from Torp & Rygge , allowing the canny Norwegians to save some dosh for the important (relatively much cheaper) things in life I.E. going on the p*ss where it is affordable. To go back (briefly ) to the thread subject, personally, I still subscribe (FWIW) to the "leasing out" theory, I cannot see dual fleets working , logistically nor operationally.
there has been (for some time now ) a FCO rumour, so, I think it is safe to say that it will happen (as most base rumours in NAS have so far ) the exact timing ? well who knows, and Boeing give us "only" 15 aircraft (excluding "plastic-fantastic" deliveries ) this year so who knows exactly when.
Alex , I think it is fair to say that you, & my colleagues A&C & others, are doing a fantastic job of flying the flag for our respective current employers.
Lest we forget, the Harpies are on a "charm offensive" & they will always undercut us. I think Easy/NAS are on a different level, and the "crisis" has probably reduced the chav spend , so we are well placed to pick up the slightly more discerning end of the pax market . . .but, even if Wayne & Wynnetta stay home, RYR WILL adapt to tempt the slightly more genteel clientele I suspect.
We are all chasing the same punters, and they WILL be swayed by service, but even more by price. Hell, even the "filthy rich " Norwegians allow Ryanair to have a fairly substantial timetable from Torp & Rygge , allowing the canny Norwegians to save some dosh for the important (relatively much cheaper) things in life I.E. going on the p*ss where it is affordable. To go back (briefly ) to the thread subject, personally, I still subscribe (FWIW) to the "leasing out" theory, I cannot see dual fleets working , logistically nor operationally.
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Easyjet usually follow ryanair by about 6 months in although they now have people fro RYR in seniour positions this timescale may become less. MOL has left the starting gate with the charm offensive, ezy will no doubt try something simliar at some point in the near future.
Any airline that treats its employees and its customers with respect should prevail, ryanair and easyjet have had plenty of time to show their true colours and waiting to turn the corner until some other airline has a positive presence in the industry smacks of been forced by a better opponent. The opportunity was always there to improve the way they acted. Ezy seem intent to follow ryr no matter what the direction.
I wont even go into the issue of flooding the market by ryr and ezy with inexperienced guys - the genuine driver behind this is possibly the most obscene factor of all.
Ryr and ezy by their expansion have left lots of experienced guys out of work across much of europe. Pushing guys into the bottom of the stack in the numbers ryr and ezy have is incredibly irresponsible. Considering the amount of experienced labour readily available.
Any airline that treats its employees and its customers with respect should prevail, ryanair and easyjet have had plenty of time to show their true colours and waiting to turn the corner until some other airline has a positive presence in the industry smacks of been forced by a better opponent. The opportunity was always there to improve the way they acted. Ezy seem intent to follow ryr no matter what the direction.
I wont even go into the issue of flooding the market by ryr and ezy with inexperienced guys - the genuine driver behind this is possibly the most obscene factor of all.
Ryr and ezy by their expansion have left lots of experienced guys out of work across much of europe. Pushing guys into the bottom of the stack in the numbers ryr and ezy have is incredibly irresponsible. Considering the amount of experienced labour readily available.
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NAS 4th quarter & full year 2013 results
Norwegian 2013 figures 437MNOK (€52.5) profit before tax, down on 2012 due mainly to start up costs, wet lease, extra fuel cost for A340's and tech issues on the 787.
4 x 787-9 order announced today, which will take the long haul fleet to 14 aircraft by 2018 (6 x 787-9 & 8 787-8)
4 x 787-9 order announced today, which will take the long haul fleet to 14 aircraft by 2018 (6 x 787-9 & 8 787-8)
Three Lions,
EZY always following/copying Ryanair!? Are you having a laugh? EZY changed their concept several years ago by going after Business travellers and having high frequency on the right destinations and included allocated seating as well.
EZY share price has gone up by some 500% in the last 3 years- RYA up by around 200% so surely EZY can not have followed RYR.
EZY always following/copying Ryanair!? Are you having a laugh? EZY changed their concept several years ago by going after Business travellers and having high frequency on the right destinations and included allocated seating as well.
EZY share price has gone up by some 500% in the last 3 years- RYA up by around 200% so surely EZY can not have followed RYR.
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Flying Cokeman - no im not having a laugh. I understand it was a common concern with flightcrew that that ezy were more of an orange/blu airline than out and out bright orange. You are the same group whichever way you look at it. id probably accept ezy treat pax better and crews better. But theres not a great deal in it.
Norwegian bring something to the table with much more humility and respect than either ryr and ezy.
John smith - along with ryr (who pull low flight experienced guys from OAA) ezy (who recruit ctc guys en masse) have expanded putting many operators out of business across europe. Direct function of this is that there are perfectly recruitable guys with 1000s of hours on type with lots of airline experience and more conventional military/turboprop/cropdusting/aerial photography/instructional/para dropping/air taxi backgrounds out there looking for work now their operators have either had to downsize fleets specifically due to the success of the ryr/ezy/wizz air model or gone out of business completely. ezy just like ryr and wizz for that matter continue to recruit an inordinate amount of inexperienced guys.
I do concede ezy and ryr and wizz do also recruit a percentage of experienced guys.
Apologies to both of you for the lack of clarity in my previous post.
Norwegian bring something to the table with much more humility and respect than either ryr and ezy.
John smith - along with ryr (who pull low flight experienced guys from OAA) ezy (who recruit ctc guys en masse) have expanded putting many operators out of business across europe. Direct function of this is that there are perfectly recruitable guys with 1000s of hours on type with lots of airline experience and more conventional military/turboprop/cropdusting/aerial photography/instructional/para dropping/air taxi backgrounds out there looking for work now their operators have either had to downsize fleets specifically due to the success of the ryr/ezy/wizz air model or gone out of business completely. ezy just like ryr and wizz for that matter continue to recruit an inordinate amount of inexperienced guys.
I do concede ezy and ryr and wizz do also recruit a percentage of experienced guys.
Apologies to both of you for the lack of clarity in my previous post.
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Three Lions - I would have to agree with The Flying Cokeman here. It is undoubtedly true that in the past easyJet followed Ryanair - pay for hold baggage etc. That is, however, a long time ago and easyJet have wiped the floor with Ryanair recently. Ryanair have copied our website, allocated seating, business proposition and being polite to passengers to name a few. They are a long, long way off persuading anyone with a brain in their head that they actually value their customers, but Carolyn McCall is a million times better advert for easyJet than Michael O'Leary is for Ryanair. All his previous bravado and foolishness is just an embarrassment now to his shareholders and he is now a liability to the airline. He is too closely associated with the brash 'in-yer-face' comments that actually portrayed Ryanair for what it is - a company who became successful providing incredibly cheap but tacky flights with a staggering and almost immoral disregard for the well-being of their customers. Guess what - people increasingly do not want that now and unless they get a new CEO pretty quickly they will be in big trouble. The man has cooked his own goose in a big way and will leave a very rich man but with not a wet eye in the building. Let me remind some our readers of Mr O'Leary's more entertaining quotes and they can decide themselves whether he is an asset or liability to the 'new' Ryanair -
On passengers who forget to print their boarding pass: “We think [they] should pay 60 euros for being so stupid.”
On refunds: “You’re not getting a refund so **** off. We don’t want to hear your sob stories. What part of ‘no refund’ don’t you understand?”
On customer service: “People say the customer is always right, but you know what – they’re not. Sometimes they are wrong and they need to be told so.”
On overweight passengers: “Nobody wants to sit beside a really fat ****** on board. We have been frankly astonished at the number of customers who don’t only want to tax fat people but torture them.”
On apologies: “Are we going to say sorry for our lack of customer service? Absolutely not.”
On Ryanair’s image: “One of the weaknesses of the company now is it is a bit cheap and cheerful and overly nasty, and that reflects my personality.”
I have laughed as much as anyone at these sort of remarks, but I can also see that such an attitude has only got a limited shelf life. That shelf life has now well and truly expired, leaving the big question as to who will Ryanair get to replace him to keep the show on the road?
On passengers who forget to print their boarding pass: “We think [they] should pay 60 euros for being so stupid.”
On refunds: “You’re not getting a refund so **** off. We don’t want to hear your sob stories. What part of ‘no refund’ don’t you understand?”
On customer service: “People say the customer is always right, but you know what – they’re not. Sometimes they are wrong and they need to be told so.”
On overweight passengers: “Nobody wants to sit beside a really fat ****** on board. We have been frankly astonished at the number of customers who don’t only want to tax fat people but torture them.”
On apologies: “Are we going to say sorry for our lack of customer service? Absolutely not.”
On Ryanair’s image: “One of the weaknesses of the company now is it is a bit cheap and cheerful and overly nasty, and that reflects my personality.”
I have laughed as much as anyone at these sort of remarks, but I can also see that such an attitude has only got a limited shelf life. That shelf life has now well and truly expired, leaving the big question as to who will Ryanair get to replace him to keep the show on the road?
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Prisoners of RYR
While EZY & NAS have their sights firmly fixed on the higher yield passengers, RYR will still have an attraction to those for who the price is the absolute deciding factor or those who endure the antics of RYR because the airport in the middle of nowhere happens to be very convenient for their final destination.
Both these groups are for very different reasons are unlikely to spend much money on the aircraft but it happens to be a reliable customer base, but it is a customer base who will move on very quickly when offered a practical alternative.
Say what you will about MOL and his ethics but you have to acknowledge that he is a very cute businessman and he and his team will in market terms bend with the wind, however it is RYR that will have to change the most to pick up the higher yield passengers and EYZ that are most likely to get squeezed in the middle if RYR ups its game.
Both these groups are for very different reasons are unlikely to spend much money on the aircraft but it happens to be a reliable customer base, but it is a customer base who will move on very quickly when offered a practical alternative.
Say what you will about MOL and his ethics but you have to acknowledge that he is a very cute businessman and he and his team will in market terms bend with the wind, however it is RYR that will have to change the most to pick up the higher yield passengers and EYZ that are most likely to get squeezed in the middle if RYR ups its game.
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At the end of 2014 738 =83 + 5 733 total 88
At the end of 2015 738 =91 no 733 (planned)
At the end of 2016 738 +101 + 4 x A320 Neo's
4 x 738 delivered so far this year
All info from Norwegian investor information website
Longhaul in addition to the above
738 MAX deliveries very late 2017/ early 2018 100 on firm order
A320 Neo's 100 on firm order
So still along way behind easyJet or Ryanair in terms of fleet size, pax's and profits
At the end of 2015 738 =91 no 733 (planned)
At the end of 2016 738 +101 + 4 x A320 Neo's
4 x 738 delivered so far this year
All info from Norwegian investor information website
Longhaul in addition to the above
738 MAX deliveries very late 2017/ early 2018 100 on firm order
A320 Neo's 100 on firm order
So still along way behind easyJet or Ryanair in terms of fleet size, pax's and profits
