Easyjet Strikes
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razor27 - if being offended by being called a cadet was one of the reasons for leaving easyJet and going to Monarch, then you are destined to work for a lot of airlines!
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LGW crews nightstop at BCN, MAD and CPH soon AMS and INV will be added to that list. I've never done a minimum rest nightstop but some of the BCN ones don't have a great deal of rest. MAD and CPH are fine in that respect, but in the summer I find the early MAD and especially CPH have a very early checkin the next morning.
AGP was scrapped as a night stop.
AGP was scrapped as a night stop.
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quite sad
It's quite sad indeed to see how easily the pilot community is ready to accept just about any terms and conditions in the UK for copilots that is. For the nigels amongst you, I might have been incorrect regarding the 900 hr cap for 75% rosters, how disgraceful of me! I shall rot in hell. However, yet again I notice how easily captains are happy to support the dwindling of F/O terms and conditions, the selfishness and individualism in the UK has reached heights never seen before.
I recently spoke to an english captain who was quite happy not to support F/O contracts as long as his own salary stayed the same or improved slightly.
Regarding BALPA and it's mishandling of the crisis in January/February of this year, a whole thread is needed. Some of you seem perfectly happy that the company decided to stop talking to the union. In the words of philip smallwood, negotiations were taking too long! Such utterance is just unbelievable and unacceptable, how could you then fall for the sweet talking in the engagement campaigns? The UK is the only country which has seen the company stop talking to the majority union and force a contract onto a group of pilots. Once again, the whole thing has been accepted only because the company has been clever enough to throw a few bits and pieces to the captain population, individualism anyone? Some inflation rise, some holiday pay. But the big picture is the company move was extremely bold at times of plenty. Only in the UK could they get away with it.
Have you ever wondered why BALPA is the only union who doesn't publish french/italian and Portuguese newsletters? Why is it that we are never in the know before or during negotiations. Why aren't you ever asked as a BALPA member to vote for this or that change in T+Cs? Yes BALPA has been working hand in hand with the company over the last few years and again if you think they haven't, I suggest you look a little beyond the nearby fence of your personal interests. By the way, the only reason copilots are not reacting to the changes is because they are all new and have never known any better. Some are very disappointed of course, but how can they speak for themselves whilst they work in an environment of management by threat and fear. What threat and fear? How about the email sent two weeks after the contracts earlier this year, asking copilots to sign the new contract lest they may not have a job six months later? They are mostly young people with no previous work experience and the company has used that against them.
Are there options? Possibly. How about starting a cell at the RMT? At least some real union who stands up for the whole work force, not just a portion of it and which won't frown at calling for strike when the need arises.
By the way, if you're still wondering why BALPA doesn't publish other union's newsletters, how about they couldn't get away with it? The Portuguese are asking for reward in line with their jobs, quite simply. The french for more respect of the prerogatives of the captain and for lifestyle/part-time options.
Let's hope that BALPA has not set a precedent and that foreign unions will be strong enough to support their base, i.e the F/O contract.
If you're hoping to spend some years in this company like me, you should know that YOUR long term interest lies with the co-pilots.
And for those juicy oranges amongst you, I love my company and I'm very happy to be here and not in Monarch/Flybe. But I realise the need to distance myself from the company propangada.
Finally, to clear the F/O salary scale issue, 2010 figures were used. See the extract below from 2010 figures. Captains who were too happy to get inflation pay rises in the period 2010-2013 know it wasn't insignificant!
easyJet Pilots’ Pay and Benefits – 2010/2011 Appendix 1
Basic Salary (Effective from 1st October 2010)
Captain £85,617
Captain £77,056 (1st 6 months)
Senior First Officer £51,910 (1st 6 months)
Senior First Officer £46,719
First Officer £42,286
First Officer £38,058 (1st 6 months)
Second Officer £33,827
I recently spoke to an english captain who was quite happy not to support F/O contracts as long as his own salary stayed the same or improved slightly.
Regarding BALPA and it's mishandling of the crisis in January/February of this year, a whole thread is needed. Some of you seem perfectly happy that the company decided to stop talking to the union. In the words of philip smallwood, negotiations were taking too long! Such utterance is just unbelievable and unacceptable, how could you then fall for the sweet talking in the engagement campaigns? The UK is the only country which has seen the company stop talking to the majority union and force a contract onto a group of pilots. Once again, the whole thing has been accepted only because the company has been clever enough to throw a few bits and pieces to the captain population, individualism anyone? Some inflation rise, some holiday pay. But the big picture is the company move was extremely bold at times of plenty. Only in the UK could they get away with it.
Have you ever wondered why BALPA is the only union who doesn't publish french/italian and Portuguese newsletters? Why is it that we are never in the know before or during negotiations. Why aren't you ever asked as a BALPA member to vote for this or that change in T+Cs? Yes BALPA has been working hand in hand with the company over the last few years and again if you think they haven't, I suggest you look a little beyond the nearby fence of your personal interests. By the way, the only reason copilots are not reacting to the changes is because they are all new and have never known any better. Some are very disappointed of course, but how can they speak for themselves whilst they work in an environment of management by threat and fear. What threat and fear? How about the email sent two weeks after the contracts earlier this year, asking copilots to sign the new contract lest they may not have a job six months later? They are mostly young people with no previous work experience and the company has used that against them.
Are there options? Possibly. How about starting a cell at the RMT? At least some real union who stands up for the whole work force, not just a portion of it and which won't frown at calling for strike when the need arises.
By the way, if you're still wondering why BALPA doesn't publish other union's newsletters, how about they couldn't get away with it? The Portuguese are asking for reward in line with their jobs, quite simply. The french for more respect of the prerogatives of the captain and for lifestyle/part-time options.
Let's hope that BALPA has not set a precedent and that foreign unions will be strong enough to support their base, i.e the F/O contract.
If you're hoping to spend some years in this company like me, you should know that YOUR long term interest lies with the co-pilots.
And for those juicy oranges amongst you, I love my company and I'm very happy to be here and not in Monarch/Flybe. But I realise the need to distance myself from the company propangada.
Finally, to clear the F/O salary scale issue, 2010 figures were used. See the extract below from 2010 figures. Captains who were too happy to get inflation pay rises in the period 2010-2013 know it wasn't insignificant!
easyJet Pilots’ Pay and Benefits – 2010/2011 Appendix 1
Basic Salary (Effective from 1st October 2010)
Captain £85,617
Captain £77,056 (1st 6 months)
Senior First Officer £51,910 (1st 6 months)
Senior First Officer £46,719
First Officer £42,286
First Officer £38,058 (1st 6 months)
Second Officer £33,827
FBOZH,
No one is forcing these guys to take the contract, in fact if they refused it the terms might improve. Economics 1, supply and demand.
No one is forcing these guys to take the contract, in fact if they refused it the terms might improve. Economics 1, supply and demand.
Last edited by Jetdriver; 8th Dec 2013 at 23:51.
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FOs always blame the Captains, but what are the Captains able to do if FOs keep signing daft contracts including P2F? How is it the Cpts fault? FOs need to take more responsibility for what they agree to, as they are undermining Cpts, especially when they agree to dire contracts on promotion... Cpts have no more influence over mgmt than FOs - stop hiding behind and blaming them!
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FBOZH
Most of the Captains you fly with worked their way up the ladder via a number of tough routes.
The cadets of today wanted to jump the queue rather than work hard for selection or sponsorship.
The trouble you & your colleagues have is that there is a never ending list of guys who are willing to pay a little more than the guy ahead of him & take ever decreasing conditions just to get ahead , as you have done to get where you are.
The integrity of people in the industry has changed.
How can you now expect Captains you fly with to fight your corner , all they can do now is attempt to maintain their own conditions for as long as possible & I don't think that's going to be too long.
Most of the Captains you fly with worked their way up the ladder via a number of tough routes.
The cadets of today wanted to jump the queue rather than work hard for selection or sponsorship.
The trouble you & your colleagues have is that there is a never ending list of guys who are willing to pay a little more than the guy ahead of him & take ever decreasing conditions just to get ahead , as you have done to get where you are.
The integrity of people in the industry has changed.
How can you now expect Captains you fly with to fight your corner , all they can do now is attempt to maintain their own conditions for as long as possible & I don't think that's going to be too long.
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FZH, you make a lot of incredibly naive statements that can lead me only to assume you have never engaged with Balpa or have been in the UK very long.
Industrial relations doesn't just beat it's tune to your agenda. It is membership driven. It always has been. We have a new CC which was elected by that membership and if you knew any of them you'd know they a very much not in anyone's pockets. The previous CC wasn't either despite the talk in corners. The current membership levels in EasyJet are higher than they have ever been as is membership engagement. Despite your claim that nobody ever gets to vote on terms and conditions, the membership accepted the last pay deal only 2 months ago with a significant yes vote...maybe you missed that one.
The salaries you have published are out of date. The SO scale is a 1 year only scale now and attracts £39216, becoming £40510 in October. Those new contracts attract the same number of days off, pension, access to BAYE/SAYE etc etc as the old ones. Before anything was agreed the CC conducted an extensive survey of all it's flexicrew members and used it in negotiations. I also have it on very good authority that if those negotiations had been unsuccessful the plans were already in place for action as necessary.
In the UK the law is stacked against trade unions. That doesn't mean they cannot be effective.. They just have to be smart. You appear to assume that because we don't down tools every time the wind changes that we may as well give up. Why don't you take a look at salaries and terms tracked against inflation since easyjet recognition then?
You also refer to an apparent unwillingness to forward European newsletters to the UK members. Could that perhaps be UK libel and defamation legislation? The last time I checked it was France who held the ePG chair too.
Lastly, if you were a real trade unionist, you'd let the membership associations sort out their business themselves instead of spouting so much nonsense on a public forum. Do you really think you'll get engagement from UK pilots by slagging off their own union on pprune? Hardly. Is Balpa perfect? No - but given the restrictions it operates under it punches well above its weight.
Industrial relations doesn't just beat it's tune to your agenda. It is membership driven. It always has been. We have a new CC which was elected by that membership and if you knew any of them you'd know they a very much not in anyone's pockets. The previous CC wasn't either despite the talk in corners. The current membership levels in EasyJet are higher than they have ever been as is membership engagement. Despite your claim that nobody ever gets to vote on terms and conditions, the membership accepted the last pay deal only 2 months ago with a significant yes vote...maybe you missed that one.
The salaries you have published are out of date. The SO scale is a 1 year only scale now and attracts £39216, becoming £40510 in October. Those new contracts attract the same number of days off, pension, access to BAYE/SAYE etc etc as the old ones. Before anything was agreed the CC conducted an extensive survey of all it's flexicrew members and used it in negotiations. I also have it on very good authority that if those negotiations had been unsuccessful the plans were already in place for action as necessary.
In the UK the law is stacked against trade unions. That doesn't mean they cannot be effective.. They just have to be smart. You appear to assume that because we don't down tools every time the wind changes that we may as well give up. Why don't you take a look at salaries and terms tracked against inflation since easyjet recognition then?
You also refer to an apparent unwillingness to forward European newsletters to the UK members. Could that perhaps be UK libel and defamation legislation? The last time I checked it was France who held the ePG chair too.
Lastly, if you were a real trade unionist, you'd let the membership associations sort out their business themselves instead of spouting so much nonsense on a public forum. Do you really think you'll get engagement from UK pilots by slagging off their own union on pprune? Hardly. Is Balpa perfect? No - but given the restrictions it operates under it punches well above its weight.
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Jarvis,
Until very recently , i was an easyJet Balpa member & can tell you the level of communication is very poor .
The CC does NOT involve the membership in negotiations at all , just hides behind a commercial sensitivity claim.
Merlin as we all know was a joke & the CC not the Company let the membership down with months of poor negotiations culminating in a half baked last minute proposal !
I'd hoped the new CC would've learned & involved the membership much more but we've just been sold an RPI pay rise with the 'promise' of looking at lifestyle options 'in the future' with little information at a time when easyJet are making record profits & our colleagues on the continent enjoy vastly etter terms & conditions.
Until very recently , i was an easyJet Balpa member & can tell you the level of communication is very poor .
The CC does NOT involve the membership in negotiations at all , just hides behind a commercial sensitivity claim.
Merlin as we all know was a joke & the CC not the Company let the membership down with months of poor negotiations culminating in a half baked last minute proposal !
I'd hoped the new CC would've learned & involved the membership much more but we've just been sold an RPI pay rise with the 'promise' of looking at lifestyle options 'in the future' with little information at a time when easyJet are making record profits & our colleagues on the continent enjoy vastly etter terms & conditions.
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FZH
You are LGW based, I assume you will be popping along tonight to the BALPA members surgery to make your feelings known? You clearly feel very passionate about all this so it would be a shame to waste the opportunity, no?
Or maybe you prefer anonymous incurrate rants against people without allowing them the opportunity to respond?
You are LGW based, I assume you will be popping along tonight to the BALPA members surgery to make your feelings known? You clearly feel very passionate about all this so it would be a shame to waste the opportunity, no?
Or maybe you prefer anonymous incurrate rants against people without allowing them the opportunity to respond?
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This year we got RPI, holiday pay worth 1%, flex benefits worth 0.5% and big improvements to part time days off before the 'lifestyle' negotiations even started and accepted by the vast majority of members. Now we're getting a better tax allowance. I guess some people will never be happy.
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razor 27 - when I said, 'good luck to them', in reference to the guys who went to Monarch, I really meant it. I am only too aware it was not our proudest moment and the overwhelming majority of young pilots who left us were great people who we did not do enough to hold on to. Nonetheless, we are in a different place now and any cadet coming out of training to easyJet knows exactly what they are getting with the New Entrant Contract. It is not perfect but nor is it smoke and mirrors - if you choose to stay then you know exactly what you will be paid year-on-year.
And as a follow-up to Thad Jarvis's post, can anyone tell me of a single airline in Europe who got a better pay deal than easyJet pilots this year?
And as a follow-up to Thad Jarvis's post, can anyone tell me of a single airline in Europe who got a better pay deal than easyJet pilots this year?
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Look I don't come to pprune with the intention of having a rant or with particularly negative feelings however I do feel the need to state the obvious which is contained in my thread. How come no-one lifts an eyebrow at the very forceful methods employed by the company earlier this year? It's happened once, it will happen again.
Jarvis do you know any union that's not membership driven? We are definitely not in tune interestingly although we both hold the same position, I assume you're a line captain and both work for the same company, we do have different cultural backgrounds.
Luckily BALPA enjoys good membership but that doesn't mean everyone is happy as a member. I have spoken countless times to members who were disappointed about the lack of might. Now we all know the work law situation in the UK is not favorable however we can't keep using this as an excuse for not looking after our own. There are issues at BALPA such as communication. They have been pointed out in the past and as far as I'm aware, nothing has been done to address them. Sure you'll be asked to vote once a year on the pay negotiations. But do you feel represented? I didn't when I was in the UK.
So publishing newsletters would be libel or defamation? Without trying to be mean towards you, don't you realise you are speaking like a manager? I mean if you were in management, that's exactly what you would say to stop people from communicating. Who would sue BALPA over publishing newsletters? Cant' BALPA speak to the other unions about it? As much as I try and avoid targeting anyone personally on this forum because it's not the point, I must say I find the idea of libel completely ludicrous.
As I was pointing out above again, communication should be addressed. You have the biggest base of the network, LGW, the most workforce. A lot of pilots not sticking around, awaiting to transfer to other bases. The need for communication is great.
Meanwhile what is the company trying to achieve? Through devide and conquer? Does easyJet want us to speak about our terms and conditions between countries? No, absolutely not! And that's why we must work together to do exactly that!
Again guys, please try and avoid targeting anyone personally here, it's pointless. To answer some of you, I'm a captain, not an F/O. I don't live in the UK anymore so I won't be going to any get together. Yes I do have an interest in the unions overseas, I was in the UK recently so I've had my share of experience with BALPA and I can talk about it.
And the reason I come to the public forum is because there's red tape accross at the company and BALPA ones. And what's wrong with making our discussions public?
Again, I'm not after anyone in particular, I've spoken to reps who were great and had a very good mentality. My feeling is the culture needs to change and that's why I'm on here.
Jarvis do you know any union that's not membership driven? We are definitely not in tune interestingly although we both hold the same position, I assume you're a line captain and both work for the same company, we do have different cultural backgrounds.
Luckily BALPA enjoys good membership but that doesn't mean everyone is happy as a member. I have spoken countless times to members who were disappointed about the lack of might. Now we all know the work law situation in the UK is not favorable however we can't keep using this as an excuse for not looking after our own. There are issues at BALPA such as communication. They have been pointed out in the past and as far as I'm aware, nothing has been done to address them. Sure you'll be asked to vote once a year on the pay negotiations. But do you feel represented? I didn't when I was in the UK.
So publishing newsletters would be libel or defamation? Without trying to be mean towards you, don't you realise you are speaking like a manager? I mean if you were in management, that's exactly what you would say to stop people from communicating. Who would sue BALPA over publishing newsletters? Cant' BALPA speak to the other unions about it? As much as I try and avoid targeting anyone personally on this forum because it's not the point, I must say I find the idea of libel completely ludicrous.
As I was pointing out above again, communication should be addressed. You have the biggest base of the network, LGW, the most workforce. A lot of pilots not sticking around, awaiting to transfer to other bases. The need for communication is great.
Meanwhile what is the company trying to achieve? Through devide and conquer? Does easyJet want us to speak about our terms and conditions between countries? No, absolutely not! And that's why we must work together to do exactly that!
Again guys, please try and avoid targeting anyone personally here, it's pointless. To answer some of you, I'm a captain, not an F/O. I don't live in the UK anymore so I won't be going to any get together. Yes I do have an interest in the unions overseas, I was in the UK recently so I've had my share of experience with BALPA and I can talk about it.
And the reason I come to the public forum is because there's red tape accross at the company and BALPA ones. And what's wrong with making our discussions public?
Again, I'm not after anyone in particular, I've spoken to reps who were great and had a very good mentality. My feeling is the culture needs to change and that's why I'm on here.
