BALPA accuses EASA of maladministration
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@ barking mad.... you surely weren't , when you chose that alias
......
First,I'll play Devil's Advocate...... Most of Industry works a 40-hour week,- that includes the bods in charge of Nuclear Power generation, among other very high-risk, high responsibility jobs......Brain-surgeon, anyone?....so, while fatigue *may* be a real issue , an average 25-hour week is seen as a "cushy number" through most other eyes.
IMO, the real problem is the huge growth in mass air-travel bought about by cheap fares.
If the airlines are making so much money, stop to ask yourself, "why are so many going bust? "
Up the fares and you'll have more money and therefore be able to justify better T's and C's EXCEPT YOU WON'T because you will exclude those who can't (or won't) afford the extra cost...so the REAL answer is to shrink the airline business dramatically.....fewer, less frequent aircraft on fewer routes, charging enough that seat-occupancy is optimally high and profits pay the remaining staff a good wage and leaves sufficient for maintenance and replacememt.
Of course, this new, elite air-transport world will mean at least half of present Aircrew will need a new carreer...........
Is that what you reallywant?
......First,I'll play Devil's Advocate...... Most of Industry works a 40-hour week,- that includes the bods in charge of Nuclear Power generation, among other very high-risk, high responsibility jobs......Brain-surgeon, anyone?....so, while fatigue *may* be a real issue , an average 25-hour week is seen as a "cushy number" through most other eyes.
IMO, the real problem is the huge growth in mass air-travel bought about by cheap fares.
If the airlines are making so much money, stop to ask yourself, "why are so many going bust? "
Up the fares and you'll have more money and therefore be able to justify better T's and C's EXCEPT YOU WON'T because you will exclude those who can't (or won't) afford the extra cost...so the REAL answer is to shrink the airline business dramatically.....fewer, less frequent aircraft on fewer routes, charging enough that seat-occupancy is optimally high and profits pay the remaining staff a good wage and leaves sufficient for maintenance and replacememt.
Of course, this new, elite air-transport world will mean at least half of present Aircrew will need a new carreer...........
Is that what you reallywant?
Cockney Steve,
I have not bothered to comment of this forum for ages, but some of your comments cannot go 'un-challenged'.
You imply that airline pilots do 25 hours a week!!!!!! I am a S/H captain working out of LHR and I manage more than that as 'block time'. You then need to add briefing times, times between turnarounds, simulator checks, ground duties and also the plethora of other matters that are involved in maintaining your ability to remain competent.
Airline pilots are not looking for favours, just sensible FTLs based on scientific data and 'knowledge' rather than the whims of bean-counters in airlines.
The USA is making an effort to tighten some aspects of their FTLs, but the bunch of beaurocrats at EASA are not basing the new regulations on scientific data and even less on knowledge.
'Some' aspects of the new FTLs will increase the possibility of fatigue among pilots, not improve safety.
I have not bothered to comment of this forum for ages, but some of your comments cannot go 'un-challenged'.
You imply that airline pilots do 25 hours a week!!!!!! I am a S/H captain working out of LHR and I manage more than that as 'block time'. You then need to add briefing times, times between turnarounds, simulator checks, ground duties and also the plethora of other matters that are involved in maintaining your ability to remain competent.
Airline pilots are not looking for favours, just sensible FTLs based on scientific data and 'knowledge' rather than the whims of bean-counters in airlines.
The USA is making an effort to tighten some aspects of their FTLs, but the bunch of beaurocrats at EASA are not basing the new regulations on scientific data and even less on knowledge.
'Some' aspects of the new FTLs will increase the possibility of fatigue among pilots, not improve safety.
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@ Sporran....
Yes, I'm well aware that there are loads of "extras",over and above time in the Command seat . Again, this is not the perogative of just Flight-Deck Crew.
Many of us deride the poor quality of a lot of teachers, nowadays...It's also seen as a cushy number for those that can't "do"....but it cannot be denied there are a lot of hidden hours with the job, over and above the headline"9-3.30, 5 days a week, half term, full term and 6-week summer holidays"
I have often stated (see the Canadian ,"18 and Iwant to be a Pilot" thread)....the cost of training, divided into the short, legally mandated and limited working time of a professional Pilot, is a significant drain on the hourly remuneration of the Profession.
Truth is, most love the job and get paid to "play"....most other workers have to do the "least bad" job to put the bread on the table.
Currently, too many Pilots , too many Airframes, not enough Pax revenue.
simple economics.
show me a "greedy" airline and I'll show you a bank that makes over 15% on lending out someone-else's money(the depositors' , who *might* get 1%)
Yes, I'm well aware that there are loads of "extras",over and above time in the Command seat . Again, this is not the perogative of just Flight-Deck Crew.
Many of us deride the poor quality of a lot of teachers, nowadays...It's also seen as a cushy number for those that can't "do"....but it cannot be denied there are a lot of hidden hours with the job, over and above the headline"9-3.30, 5 days a week, half term, full term and 6-week summer holidays"
I have often stated (see the Canadian ,"18 and Iwant to be a Pilot" thread)....the cost of training, divided into the short, legally mandated and limited working time of a professional Pilot, is a significant drain on the hourly remuneration of the Profession.
Truth is, most love the job and get paid to "play"....most other workers have to do the "least bad" job to put the bread on the table.
Currently, too many Pilots , too many Airframes, not enough Pax revenue.
simple economics.
show me a "greedy" airline and I'll show you a bank that makes over 15% on lending out someone-else's money(the depositors' , who *might* get 1%)
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Did Easa answered BALPA? It has been over a year now.
Any progress in this area?
What really screwed me up in the FTL system is that after 12 hrs of duty, I have to have 14 hours of rest. But day has only 24 hours. So if you add 12 and 14, you will end up with 26 hours. So now we have to get switched back and forth from morning shift to evening shift.
Any progress in this area?
What really screwed me up in the FTL system is that after 12 hrs of duty, I have to have 14 hours of rest. But day has only 24 hours. So if you add 12 and 14, you will end up with 26 hours. So now we have to get switched back and forth from morning shift to evening shift.
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"I'm guessing the mainstream press are not interested in stories without sensationalist value. It's not surprising that the general PPRuNe readers have ignored this thread because most of them are NOT professional pilots and so are ignorant of the issues surrounding fatigue. Much easier to spout nonsense about a high profile event like the Asiana tragedy."
I am not a professional pilot; my field is commercial shipping and my EASA is EMSA, if I may so put it. I am very alert to fatigue issues and I have huge reservations about EMSA, and to some extent also the IMO (our ICAO). So this thread is of immediate interest to me.
I am not a professional pilot; my field is commercial shipping and my EASA is EMSA, if I may so put it. I am very alert to fatigue issues and I have huge reservations about EMSA, and to some extent also the IMO (our ICAO). So this thread is of immediate interest to me.
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Normal rest at home is twelve
I wonder if what you wrote is what you mean. Many years ago the sensible Scandanivian FTL's allowed a 1 hour travel time home and back again. Thus 12 hours rest at home equalled 14hr off duty: which is what PSB hinted at. However, in only that regime wasrest at home considered. Every other FTL was time off duty - time on duty. Travelling was not considered. The time in some airports from stand engines off to car park can differ by 1 hour in both directions.
I wonder if what you wrote is what you mean. Many years ago the sensible Scandanivian FTL's allowed a 1 hour travel time home and back again. Thus 12 hours rest at home equalled 14hr off duty: which is what PSB hinted at. However, in only that regime wasrest at home considered. Every other FTL was time off duty - time on duty. Travelling was not considered. The time in some airports from stand engines off to car park can differ by 1 hour in both directions.
