Non-TR DEC and FO Recruitment Jet2
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Originally Posted by EllanVannin:7937635
Thanks very much. How many equivalent medium
sectors a month would you tend to fly a month on average?
sectors a month would you tend to fly a month on average?
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San Expiry, or anyone else who may know
How true is it that they may have ditched the Compass Testing? Do you have this on good authority?
Are they still looking for type rated (contract) Captains on the B737?
Any information very much appreciated.
Are they still looking for type rated (contract) Captains on the B737?
Any information very much appreciated.
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EllanVannin,
Depends on how many pilots they have, of course... I'd say, during summer, about 16 medium sectors.
That was when I was there, I believe it is far busier for pilots now (hence the recruitment, I guess)...
Depends on how many pilots they have, of course... I'd say, during summer, about 16 medium sectors.
That was when I was there, I believe it is far busier for pilots now (hence the recruitment, I guess)...
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Different companies have different selection procedures, but broadly speaking the objective is the same, so last Autumn when bmibaby poured 120+ 737 type rated and experienced lots of people had the opportunity to see first hand how it worked, the middle east crowd were very thorough especially on the medical front which surprised a few, BA were their (un)helpful self, Jet2 had the now infamous compass test, Monarch, who i expected to be very much into all manner of testing & sim rides basically had a 50 min chat, no technicals or mind games and Norwegian, again a chat, very informal off the back of an online personality test and followed by a basic sim check for Captains.
My point here is that the result is more or less the same, all of these companies either took or rejected some candidates that raised a few eyebrows for ex baby trainers and flight crew management.
To date I'm not aware of any ex baby pilot (other than sandpit 777, which was always going to be a big jump for some) needing additional training or not making it through the conversion course's
Jet2 could have done a lot worse than adopt the former baby "Durnford" method approach of sitting down in Costa coffee with Jet2 current/present fleet 737 manager and interviewee and have a chat, it wouldn't be perfect, but nothing is?
My point here is that the result is more or less the same, all of these companies either took or rejected some candidates that raised a few eyebrows for ex baby trainers and flight crew management.
To date I'm not aware of any ex baby pilot (other than sandpit 777, which was always going to be a big jump for some) needing additional training or not making it through the conversion course's
Jet2 could have done a lot worse than adopt the former baby "Durnford" method approach of sitting down in Costa coffee with Jet2 current/present fleet 737 manager and interviewee and have a chat, it wouldn't be perfect, but nothing is?
PPRuNe Secret Agent!
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The best jobs ive had, First Choice Airways and my present employer, was a 1 hour chat, requiring you to have done the homework on the company and the good old "can I sit next to you for 12 hours" thingy...with a very obvious assumption by looking at your CV, you could do the job!
In both companies, everyone cares, the employee and employer...it was/is enough to get the job done...
Jet2 might learn eventually!
In both companies, everyone cares, the employee and employer...it was/is enough to get the job done...
Jet2 might learn eventually!
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Jet2 could have done a lot worse than adopt the former baby "Durnford" method approach of sitting down in Costa coffee with Jet2 current/present fleet 737 manager and interviewee and have a chat, it wouldn't be perfect, but nothing is?
Champagne anyone...?
Thread Starter
With no command time I very much doubt they'd take you on in the LHS. That said, once you're in and have 300 hrs with the company you can apply for the command process. It's a meritocracy; if you're good then you'll get it. If you're not, you won't. Simple enough system really.
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Why are they after NTR DEC I know a few people who have gone there with 1000's of hours who must be more than ready. Or are they after some ex Flybe LHS who will be more than happy to take a jet LHS and accept whatever conditions are offered for the privilege.
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Successful candidates will possess a valid UK issued JAR ATPL or EASA licence and a valid UK issued Class One Medical. You will have a minimum of 3000 flying hours, of which 1000 hours must be command time on a medium to heavy commercial or military multi-crew, multi-engine jet or heavy multi-crew, multi-engine Turboprop aircraft.
Meet this criteria? Apply.
Why are they after NTR DEC I know a few people who have gone there with 1000's of hours who must be more than ready. Or are they after some ex Flybe LHS who will be more than happy to take a jet LHS and accept whatever conditions are offered for the privilege.
There are only so many internal promotions the training system can cope with. DEC's come via a different route ie. external training provider. The pre-course requisite experience for the latter route bar the internal applicants. Put simply, demand exceeds possible internal supply.
Champagne anyone...?
Thread Starter
Or are they after some ex Flybe LHS who will be more than happy to take a jet LHS and accept whatever conditions are offered for the privilege.
Hours maketh not the man. 1000s and 1000s of hours in the RHS is generally indicative of one of two of things (in a meritocratic outfit) - a desire to stay in the RHS or a lack of ability to move out of it.
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StopStart - You do seem to get a bit 'tense' at any negative comment about Jet2. I don't think that comment was intended how you think, but it's about what opportunities you've had previously and what you've experienced.
It obviously works for you at your age/whatever opportunities were available/where you do/want to live - great!
But it is far from perfect...no crew food/dual basing tosh/pathetic pilot contracts/50% pay whilst training/pay-for-ratings...I think you'll find Jet2 is all for those abroad/need a job/a light at the end of the long turbo-prop tunnel, if you can afford it.
It obviously works for you at your age/whatever opportunities were available/where you do/want to live - great!
But it is far from perfect...no crew food/dual basing tosh/pathetic pilot contracts/50% pay whilst training/pay-for-ratings...I think you'll find Jet2 is all for those abroad/need a job/a light at the end of the long turbo-prop tunnel, if you can afford it.
Champagne anyone...?
Thread Starter
Not "tense" old chap, I just find them to be a decent enough employer and I struggle sometimes to reconcile the attitudes displayed by some of the pilot population that inhabits Pprune with the apparent state of the market. I fail to see why defending the company makes me "tense". Those slating it seem a lot more tense to me......
(Note - I am fully cognisant that Pprune represents a cross-section of absolutely nothing and that anonymous opinions expressed on here have little or no bearing on the real world, mine included)
There seems to be a high level expectation among many posters on here when it comes to employment. I fully support the idea that T&Cs of the airline pilot population have generally been pared to the bone in Europe/UK and that cutting them any further must be resisted where possible. That said, the days of 6 figure salaries for all, free flights everywhere, fancy hotels and trolley loads of free food are gone for pretty much everyone.
Employment opportunities in the UK market are flat for pretty much everyone and especially for those seeking to break into the "jet market" (a hilarious concept in itself). Folk have quoted other airlines recruiting but you only have to read the threads on the subjects to see what's actually going on.
EasyJet recruiting 200. Or are they? Is it a smokescreen sop to the CAA? Seems to be some pretty grotty contracts being discussed there, not to mention the high probability of applicants fronting up £30k+ for a rating. And what about the recruiting process there? "Congrats you're through!" "Actually we've changed our minds, you're not."
Monarch recruiting? Apparently. A great company with good Ts and Cs. Funded by the odd bail out now and then. Recruiting is apparently on but it's very a slow drip feed, certainly not enough to satisfy the demands of the pilot market.
BA? The Hopy Grail of airline employers. Yes, they offer proper old school T&Cs and a career for life. How's recruiting going there then? Pretty much 50-75% of the folk that got through BA's Terribly-Pleased-With-Itself recruiting into the hold pool have then been dropped as the company's circumstances/needs changed.
RyanAir recruiting. Apparently. Knock yourself out with that one. The absolute bottom of the barrel when it comes to airline employers.
So what about Jet2 then? A company that has grown rapidly over the last few years is now offering opportunities to a whole spectrum of the pilot community. Ex-military looking for their first civvy job, TP looking for first jet, returnees to UK, people wanting to move "home" up north, capable FOs looking for the chance of a shot at command, the list goes on. Yes the company isn't perfect and I don't seek to defend those aspects I find distasteful, however it is a fair employer offering choice and opportunity in a market that generally isn't.
The company generally works for me as an employer but to answer your specific criticisms:
No Crew Food - sorry, I find this oft levelled complaint to be hilarious. Buy a banana or take a sandwich. If you can't survive a Malaga and back without a three course meal you need a chat with yourself.
Dual Basing - I'm not but know many who are. None of them are bothered by it.
"Pathetic Pilot Contracts" - I wholeheartedly agree that the 70% contract is a pretty cynical HR tool to get something for nothing. A lesson was hopefully learnt earlier this year when it was turned down in droves leaving the company short of pilots. I don't agree with it however I know plenty of commanders who've taken it, rightly or wrongly, as "in" to the company. That said, I know people who joined simply because the 70% contract was available. The pay over the summer funds other activities over the winter. Some people do have lives outside of aviation....
50% pay during training - Yup, don't like that either. 50% during the TR fair enough but once on line training it should be 100%
Pay for your rating - I fail to see why this is a drama. Why should any company splurge a load of money to give you a fancy, marketable rating and then expect no return? Most people I know are on a non-repayment, reducing 3 year bond. If anyone can give me a realistic reason why this is unfair I'm all ears. I'm actually on a repayment bond - I'd rather not be paying it back but thems the breaks.
Jet2 isn't perfect - in my case I live away from home and am paying for my rating. On the other hand, I enjoy the working environment and people I work with. I get a decent enough salary that is paid on time. Is it the ideal company for me? Actually, no it isn't (location). Does that make them a bad employer? No, far from it. Would I take another job if there was one that better suited my needs? Yes. Does that stop me being able to recommend Jet2 as an employer. No, again, far from it as I am able to see the company for what it is.
It may not be a "career airline" for some but I know many for whom it is. Not everyone needs the moon on a stick and there are people out there for whom, surprisingly, £85k pa, a busy summer, a quiet winter and the chance to live at home on t'Dales is more than enough. For those that need the rock star wages go fill your boots in China or the desert. I hear the Terms there are idyllic....
Whether or not the intelligentsia of Pprune apply to the company is of little or no interest to me. I simply offer a counterpoint view to those on here who would seek to slate the company either through disgruntlement, outdated experience or just general "snobbery" and over-expectation. You're all grown ups (well, most of you), if you want a job that fits the criteria offered by the company then apply. Go to the interview and ask questions. If you don't like the answers you get then walk away. It's very very simple.
I'm not a company spokesman by the way, I'm just some bloke with an opinion.
PS. I was the wrong side of a bottle of wine when I wrote my response to Ben178v. That said, it still reads like it was written by an FO with a few thousand hours sulking that he gets jumped in the queue to command by a newcomer turboprop commander. I find the whole TP/Jet experience/hours argument to be a hilarious and baseless HR construct. (And before you ask, I haven't been a victim of it). As I said, Hours Maketh Not The Man. Who is probably the better pilot - the 4000hr BA 747 FO who logs 24 hours per trip and lands once a month, the 3000hr 737 FO who logs 5 hours per trip and lands 5 times a week?
Anyway, I can't see what the issue is with a FlyBe/Eastern LHS joining Jet2 on £75k + £9k pa as a commander and being bonded for three years? "Whatever conditions are offered"? What more do you want?
(Note - I am fully cognisant that Pprune represents a cross-section of absolutely nothing and that anonymous opinions expressed on here have little or no bearing on the real world, mine included)
There seems to be a high level expectation among many posters on here when it comes to employment. I fully support the idea that T&Cs of the airline pilot population have generally been pared to the bone in Europe/UK and that cutting them any further must be resisted where possible. That said, the days of 6 figure salaries for all, free flights everywhere, fancy hotels and trolley loads of free food are gone for pretty much everyone.
Employment opportunities in the UK market are flat for pretty much everyone and especially for those seeking to break into the "jet market" (a hilarious concept in itself). Folk have quoted other airlines recruiting but you only have to read the threads on the subjects to see what's actually going on.
EasyJet recruiting 200. Or are they? Is it a smokescreen sop to the CAA? Seems to be some pretty grotty contracts being discussed there, not to mention the high probability of applicants fronting up £30k+ for a rating. And what about the recruiting process there? "Congrats you're through!" "Actually we've changed our minds, you're not."
Monarch recruiting? Apparently. A great company with good Ts and Cs. Funded by the odd bail out now and then. Recruiting is apparently on but it's very a slow drip feed, certainly not enough to satisfy the demands of the pilot market.
BA? The Hopy Grail of airline employers. Yes, they offer proper old school T&Cs and a career for life. How's recruiting going there then? Pretty much 50-75% of the folk that got through BA's Terribly-Pleased-With-Itself recruiting into the hold pool have then been dropped as the company's circumstances/needs changed.
RyanAir recruiting. Apparently. Knock yourself out with that one. The absolute bottom of the barrel when it comes to airline employers.
So what about Jet2 then? A company that has grown rapidly over the last few years is now offering opportunities to a whole spectrum of the pilot community. Ex-military looking for their first civvy job, TP looking for first jet, returnees to UK, people wanting to move "home" up north, capable FOs looking for the chance of a shot at command, the list goes on. Yes the company isn't perfect and I don't seek to defend those aspects I find distasteful, however it is a fair employer offering choice and opportunity in a market that generally isn't.
The company generally works for me as an employer but to answer your specific criticisms:
No Crew Food - sorry, I find this oft levelled complaint to be hilarious. Buy a banana or take a sandwich. If you can't survive a Malaga and back without a three course meal you need a chat with yourself.
Dual Basing - I'm not but know many who are. None of them are bothered by it.
"Pathetic Pilot Contracts" - I wholeheartedly agree that the 70% contract is a pretty cynical HR tool to get something for nothing. A lesson was hopefully learnt earlier this year when it was turned down in droves leaving the company short of pilots. I don't agree with it however I know plenty of commanders who've taken it, rightly or wrongly, as "in" to the company. That said, I know people who joined simply because the 70% contract was available. The pay over the summer funds other activities over the winter. Some people do have lives outside of aviation....
50% pay during training - Yup, don't like that either. 50% during the TR fair enough but once on line training it should be 100%
Pay for your rating - I fail to see why this is a drama. Why should any company splurge a load of money to give you a fancy, marketable rating and then expect no return? Most people I know are on a non-repayment, reducing 3 year bond. If anyone can give me a realistic reason why this is unfair I'm all ears. I'm actually on a repayment bond - I'd rather not be paying it back but thems the breaks.
Jet2 isn't perfect - in my case I live away from home and am paying for my rating. On the other hand, I enjoy the working environment and people I work with. I get a decent enough salary that is paid on time. Is it the ideal company for me? Actually, no it isn't (location). Does that make them a bad employer? No, far from it. Would I take another job if there was one that better suited my needs? Yes. Does that stop me being able to recommend Jet2 as an employer. No, again, far from it as I am able to see the company for what it is.
It may not be a "career airline" for some but I know many for whom it is. Not everyone needs the moon on a stick and there are people out there for whom, surprisingly, £85k pa, a busy summer, a quiet winter and the chance to live at home on t'Dales is more than enough. For those that need the rock star wages go fill your boots in China or the desert. I hear the Terms there are idyllic....
Whether or not the intelligentsia of Pprune apply to the company is of little or no interest to me. I simply offer a counterpoint view to those on here who would seek to slate the company either through disgruntlement, outdated experience or just general "snobbery" and over-expectation. You're all grown ups (well, most of you), if you want a job that fits the criteria offered by the company then apply. Go to the interview and ask questions. If you don't like the answers you get then walk away. It's very very simple.
I'm not a company spokesman by the way, I'm just some bloke with an opinion.
PS. I was the wrong side of a bottle of wine when I wrote my response to Ben178v. That said, it still reads like it was written by an FO with a few thousand hours sulking that he gets jumped in the queue to command by a newcomer turboprop commander. I find the whole TP/Jet experience/hours argument to be a hilarious and baseless HR construct. (And before you ask, I haven't been a victim of it). As I said, Hours Maketh Not The Man. Who is probably the better pilot - the 4000hr BA 747 FO who logs 24 hours per trip and lands once a month, the 3000hr 737 FO who logs 5 hours per trip and lands 5 times a week?
Anyway, I can't see what the issue is with a FlyBe/Eastern LHS joining Jet2 on £75k + £9k pa as a commander and being bonded for three years? "Whatever conditions are offered"? What more do you want?
Last edited by StopStart; 14th Jul 2013 at 08:20.
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Great ..... a considered and well written response by StopStart..... I haven't applied and was merely meandering around the various threads but am pleased to see an honest reply for once.
I agree with what you said.....main summation being that nowhere is perfect and if Jet2 works for you then get in there quick before the seats are filled. Folks.....apply.....talk to them....if the answers don't do it for you....walk away. what have you got to lose?
I agree with what you said.....main summation being that nowhere is perfect and if Jet2 works for you then get in there quick before the seats are filled. Folks.....apply.....talk to them....if the answers don't do it for you....walk away. what have you got to lose?
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Compass Mularky
So, can anyone help me out by answering this question (again).
Do Jet2 still use Compass Testing as part of their recruitment process for DECs?
As someone who has no knowledge of Compass Testing and has no understanding of its relevance, but someone who can fly a B737 - and has been doing for quite a few years.
Any information, much appreciated.
Do Jet2 still use Compass Testing as part of their recruitment process for DECs?
As someone who has no knowledge of Compass Testing and has no understanding of its relevance, but someone who can fly a B737 - and has been doing for quite a few years.
Any information, much appreciated.
Champagne anyone...?
Thread Starter
I have been led to believe that COMPASS testing won't be used for experienced applicants.
I am pretty sure rated applicants aren't bonded. The bonds supposedly cover TR & Line training costs.
I am pretty sure rated applicants aren't bonded. The bonds supposedly cover TR & Line training costs.
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Agree with most of what stopstart says with the exception of dual basing. I am dual based and have yet to meet anyone who likes it! I understand under Easa FTL there can be no dual basing though, maybe the one positive from the otherwise ridiculous proposed new FTLs.