Jet 2 Recruitment!
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Many have come from other major charter firms and have up to halved their pay etc as well as many fringe benefits etc
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From what I have read Jet2 T&C's are average, better than some worse than others, the current pilot shortage at jet2 is not a result of poor terms. But rather an own goal in recruitment terms
Jet2 recruitment process set an academic bar that took no account of experience as a result some academically skilled pilots with questionable sim performances got hired, whilst some excellent pilots with 1000's of hours on classic didn't
I doubt they'll repeat the error next year and by then many more home grown F/o's should be ready unless there is a mass exodus, which is unlikely
I think they will have avert profitable year in 2013/14 judging by the loads I have seen.
Jet2 recruitment process set an academic bar that took no account of experience as a result some academically skilled pilots with questionable sim performances got hired, whilst some excellent pilots with 1000's of hours on classic didn't
I doubt they'll repeat the error next year and by then many more home grown F/o's should be ready unless there is a mass exodus, which is unlikely
I think they will have avert profitable year in 2013/14 judging by the loads I have seen.
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LNIDA, the shortage this year (which I've heard has now been plugged) is in no way a result of the recruitment process itself. All roles were filled back in the autumn using the silly HR tests.
The miscalculation was that out of work, type rated pilots, with families to feed were not going to take the first solid offer that came along. Baby pilots should have filled all the vacancies, but they got solid offers from FlyDubai, Norwegian, Qatar, Ryanair, Monarch etc with start dates prior to the dates Jet2 "promised". So unsurprisingly they went elsewhere.
Nothing will change next year because we are now fully crewed. "What's the problem??" will be what HR will say. They've even saved the company half a years wages from 70 odd pilots, so will probably get a bonus!
The miscalculation was that out of work, type rated pilots, with families to feed were not going to take the first solid offer that came along. Baby pilots should have filled all the vacancies, but they got solid offers from FlyDubai, Norwegian, Qatar, Ryanair, Monarch etc with start dates prior to the dates Jet2 "promised". So unsurprisingly they went elsewhere.
Nothing will change next year because we are now fully crewed. "What's the problem??" will be what HR will say. They've even saved the company half a years wages from 70 odd pilots, so will probably get a bonus!
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Many have come from other major charter firms and have up to halved their pay etc
"major firms" have ALL gone bust!!! There is a lot of fault with the HR department but none with the general management of the company.
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It might be 'lol' but it shouldn't be and it's a serious question that all pilot groups should be asking in negotiations along with the likes of:
Is the next batch of recruits into HR or Commercial going to be employed on reduced salaries and T&Cs than the last batch 6 months ago? Are the directors going to take a 5% pay cut with in line with the flighcrew (for Flybe readers)?
Is the next group of managers going to foot the bill for their training courses?
You know the answer so why have we, 'the pilot body', accepted the treatment doled out to us by bonus driven managment so meekly over the past 10 years?
Three weeks ago the RMT threatened to strike on the Jubilee Line over attempts to reduce T&Cs. 'Management' was back in negotiations before you could say 'Bob Crowe'.
Is the next batch of recruits into HR or Commercial going to be employed on reduced salaries and T&Cs than the last batch 6 months ago? Are the directors going to take a 5% pay cut with in line with the flighcrew (for Flybe readers)?
Is the next group of managers going to foot the bill for their training courses?
You know the answer so why have we, 'the pilot body', accepted the treatment doled out to us by bonus driven managment so meekly over the past 10 years?
Three weeks ago the RMT threatened to strike on the Jubilee Line over attempts to reduce T&Cs. 'Management' was back in negotiations before you could say 'Bob Crowe'.
Last edited by MaxReheat; 18th Apr 2013 at 09:43.
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The people on 70% contract when offered 100% contract have the choice of having the winter off and starting their new 100% contract at the start of the new season or starting straight away. There is no back pay if they choice to start 100% contract immediately. There is no pressure either way. I am aware of number of pilots who have taken the option of starting their 100% contract in the new season and having the winter off. Nobody at Jet2 works 100% for 70% pay.
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But do you work 70% roster over the summer period? Or is 100% as others had already said, if thats the case then people do work 100% for 70% pay. It makes no difference if you are offered the winter off or offered to start at 100% straight away. If you take the straight away option you have just worked 100% from the start yet for 70% pay initially. If this is true then it alarms me that some cant see this.
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I don't know of anyone who at the end of their first summer on a 70% contract was not either offered 100% straight away or 100% starting the following spring. So I don't think it's a reduction in pay for a few years, that's not accurate at all.
There's no doubt there's a lot of things wrong with jet2, and a solid rostering agreement and significant improvement to terms and conditions would go a long way to making it more of a career airline. However, ultimately it's a business and it would be negligent to its shareholders if it didn't try and minimise its costs in all areas, including pilot recruitment and pay. I don't like it, but I can understand it.
Ultimately, jet2 isn't the best place to work, but it's far from the worst. It's all about what you want. If a UK base is important, it would be foolish to dismiss them just because you might spend a few months on a reduced salary.
There's no doubt there's a lot of things wrong with jet2, and a solid rostering agreement and significant improvement to terms and conditions would go a long way to making it more of a career airline. However, ultimately it's a business and it would be negligent to its shareholders if it didn't try and minimise its costs in all areas, including pilot recruitment and pay. I don't like it, but I can understand it.
Ultimately, jet2 isn't the best place to work, but it's far from the worst. It's all about what you want. If a UK base is important, it would be foolish to dismiss them just because you might spend a few months on a reduced salary.
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Excellent post Pemworth
Jet2 business model is seasonal. its a buckets & spades airline with some city & ski breaks thrown in. Pilots in that type of operation are only required seasonally so unless you work for one of the legacy B&S operations such as Monarch, ThomasCook and the like where you'll be paid 100% year round and on far better T&C's then your options are very limited if you want or have to work in the UK.
I think the 50% pay in line training is an insult to any experienced pilot, but for now the owner is in the driving seat and growing an airline.
I think the 50% pay in line training is an insult to any experienced pilot, but for now the owner is in the driving seat and growing an airline.
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When will beancounters realise that Pilot pay is NOT something one should skimp on, and when will Pilots realise that unless they grow some balls and stop " understanding" shareholders and their so called managers, their conditions will not get better and their profession is being undervalued?!
The only reason why our pay has gone down the drain is hecause we as a group allow it.
The only reason why our pay has gone down the drain is hecause we as a group allow it.
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Not everyone got offered 100% previously, maybe this year they did. Minimise costs yes, but to make money off their employees at the start of their tenure is another story. They won't grow as fast as they like if they can't get decent pilots who are willing to join or stay when they do. Long term re- training costs will surely outweigh any short term gains...unless a high turn over of staff is made to be beneficial to the company which I believe it probably is.
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I need info
Hi everyone,
Could I refer people to my thread on Ts&cs and bonds etc.
There seems to be a particularly keen interest on pprune in Jet2.com regarding its ethics etc.
All info/insights are appreciated.
Thanks
Could I refer people to my thread on Ts&cs and bonds etc.
There seems to be a particularly keen interest on pprune in Jet2.com regarding its ethics etc.
All info/insights are appreciated.
Thanks
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Just like any business Jet2 ( or to give them the real company name Channel Express air services ) will try to get the best deal be it for maintenance, fuel, or labour. This should not surprise you and it is how the free market works.
I have difficulty with those who are critical of Jet 2 on the grounds of T&C'S because it is clear from the start what they are offering and no one forces you to take the contract. I worked for them when they were still flying turboprops on night cargo and they treated me very reasonably when it was within their power to do so but were always very careful with money.
I think I might still be with them had it not been for the long night duties followed by much positioning to get back to base, I eventually was in fear of dying on the road ether in the back of a cab or while driving home. These less that ideal duties were the result of pilots leaving to fly jets faster than new pilots could be trained. The market for pilots at the time was such that the company was unable to control the outflow of pilots and so the undesirable duties were as a result of things that they could not control.
It has to be said that the care with money has resulted in the company continuing to trade unlike my next four employers who all went bust !
I have difficulty with those who are critical of Jet 2 on the grounds of T&C'S because it is clear from the start what they are offering and no one forces you to take the contract. I worked for them when they were still flying turboprops on night cargo and they treated me very reasonably when it was within their power to do so but were always very careful with money.
I think I might still be with them had it not been for the long night duties followed by much positioning to get back to base, I eventually was in fear of dying on the road ether in the back of a cab or while driving home. These less that ideal duties were the result of pilots leaving to fly jets faster than new pilots could be trained. The market for pilots at the time was such that the company was unable to control the outflow of pilots and so the undesirable duties were as a result of things that they could not control.
It has to be said that the care with money has resulted in the company continuing to trade unlike my next four employers who all went bust !
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Barron blue
The price put on any training bond must by law reflect the cost of training, the large price tags in the contract were always a part of the Channel Express psychological game plan, those who left when under bond always negotiated the bond repayment down to a reasonable level. The company was always happy to negotiate in private as the last thing they wanted was to have the true costs of the training come out in open court as this would have wrecked the psycological effect the large numbers had on those under bond.
As for the BMI Baby pilots, it was my understanding a lot of them have cast their eyes futher north for employment.
As for the BMI Baby pilots, it was my understanding a lot of them have cast their eyes futher north for employment.
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Perhaps you think it's a better idea to pay thirty odd grand up front, oh and two hundred and fifty quid for an interview?
The size of the bond doesn't really matter does it. You don't have to pay any of it back if you stay for three years. Just like any other airline that uses bonds. Maybe you can go and get shouty about them too?
Your little whinge about bonds stop people from leaving is exactly what bonds are for. The airline invests time and money in you and does expect something in return.
And the 757 bond is NOT £30k!
The size of the bond doesn't really matter does it. You don't have to pay any of it back if you stay for three years. Just like any other airline that uses bonds. Maybe you can go and get shouty about them too?
Your little whinge about bonds stop people from leaving is exactly what bonds are for. The airline invests time and money in you and does expect something in return.
And the 757 bond is NOT £30k!
Last edited by Lord Spandex Masher; 22nd Apr 2013 at 07:25.
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Baron Blue
Of course if you give them the chance to grab three months pay that is what they will do !
It would seem to me that you are in a mind set that is going to make you a victim of his intimidation.
I see the situation very differently, the UK courts take a dim view of Restraint of Trade and bonding people for vastly more than the training is worth falls firmly into that catorgry. EXS know this but play the intimidation game by holding the "financial gun" to your heads, it is only when it is taken to court do both sides find out if the gun is loaded.
The question you have to ask is what are the consequences to EXS if there is no ammunition in their gun? the answer is that the whole bond thing will turn into a free for all and they will loose big time, it is far better for them to negotiate a private settlement with those who have the balls to front them up and keep the rest of the workforce in fear of what may well be an unloaded gun.
I have no problem with training bonds as long as the bond reflects the true cost of the training, after all a company has the right to expect to see a return on its investment, however inflated bonds are simply a restraint of trade.
It would seem to me that you are in a mind set that is going to make you a victim of his intimidation.
I see the situation very differently, the UK courts take a dim view of Restraint of Trade and bonding people for vastly more than the training is worth falls firmly into that catorgry. EXS know this but play the intimidation game by holding the "financial gun" to your heads, it is only when it is taken to court do both sides find out if the gun is loaded.
The question you have to ask is what are the consequences to EXS if there is no ammunition in their gun? the answer is that the whole bond thing will turn into a free for all and they will loose big time, it is far better for them to negotiate a private settlement with those who have the balls to front them up and keep the rest of the workforce in fear of what may well be an unloaded gun.
I have no problem with training bonds as long as the bond reflects the true cost of the training, after all a company has the right to expect to see a return on its investment, however inflated bonds are simply a restraint of trade.
Last edited by A and C; 22nd Apr 2013 at 08:17.
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A and C - I think you'll find that training bonds are not subject to any laws in regard to the amount, that applies to European law also, but where the law does step in is to apply whatever has been agreed and signed for in an employment contract.
I have no issue with bonding agreements when applied sensibly.
I have no issue with bonding agreements when applied sensibly.
Last edited by RAFAT; 22nd Apr 2013 at 19:18.