BALPA save BA money!
Join Date: May 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There was an 'understanding' with the Company that if attendance became a problem on certain identified routes which had previously paid high allowances, BALPA would have to deal with it. NRT became a weak link when the hourly rate was introduced. Previously allowances were so lucrative for BA flight crew flying to NRT and other Japanese destinations, some senior F/O's had even turned down promotion in order to cherry pick the route. One eventually became a Samurai! He only managed 300 trips to Japan.
The hourly rate did seem a good wheeze at the time, but with their usual lack of pragmatism, BA flight crew failed to see the possibility what a debased Pound would have on their downroute purchasing power. Now of course jealous pilots accuse the cabin crew of eroding profitability, but are not aware that far more damage is caused to a routes viability by a weak Pound on fuel and leasing costs, plus the associated inflationary pressures on UK imports that feed through to wage demands.
Yes a meal at Fatties with a few beers, is a costly experience these days for BA pilots.
The hourly rate did seem a good wheeze at the time, but with their usual lack of pragmatism, BA flight crew failed to see the possibility what a debased Pound would have on their downroute purchasing power. Now of course jealous pilots accuse the cabin crew of eroding profitability, but are not aware that far more damage is caused to a routes viability by a weak Pound on fuel and leasing costs, plus the associated inflationary pressures on UK imports that feed through to wage demands.
Yes a meal at Fatties with a few beers, is a costly experience these days for BA pilots.
Last edited by Count Niemantznarr; 22nd Mar 2013 at 16:45.
MF costs etc.
Thats why Syd going to MF in Sept.
Huge decrease in crew costs, and one local night less in Sin, which with the imminent introduction of the 777 will hopefully help make the route viable again.
Huge decrease in crew costs, and one local night less in Sin, which with the imminent introduction of the 777 will hopefully help make the route viable again.
Last edited by cessnapete; 22nd Mar 2013 at 17:56.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So what savings have BA flight crew offered on the LHR - SYD route?
Do you really need two Captains on the LHR - SIN - LHR sectors?
What about the two Club seats 60A/B that have to remain unsold just in case one of you wants to watch a film?
Two 747 flights to SIN every night, four Club seats that can't be sold each way. 1460 Club pax denied a seat with a fare of £2500 (BA.com fares for June) average each both sectors = £7,300,000 potential loss of revenue annually. And the flight Crew have bunks as well. This loss of revenue is just so that they can choose to watch a film or not!
Not only does it look bad having staff sitting in passenger seats, many customers would prefer to sit in those seats.
This is where the breathtaking arrogance of BA pilots on this forum, who criticise other employees for not cutting their pay or getting to market rate, is exposed. Pilots act as strikebreakers, yet their own union agreements as illustrated here over Club rest seats, is costing BA millions in lost revenue.
Do you really need two Captains on the LHR - SIN - LHR sectors?
What about the two Club seats 60A/B that have to remain unsold just in case one of you wants to watch a film?
Two 747 flights to SIN every night, four Club seats that can't be sold each way. 1460 Club pax denied a seat with a fare of £2500 (BA.com fares for June) average each both sectors = £7,300,000 potential loss of revenue annually. And the flight Crew have bunks as well. This loss of revenue is just so that they can choose to watch a film or not!
Not only does it look bad having staff sitting in passenger seats, many customers would prefer to sit in those seats.
This is where the breathtaking arrogance of BA pilots on this forum, who criticise other employees for not cutting their pay or getting to market rate, is exposed. Pilots act as strikebreakers, yet their own union agreements as illustrated here over Club rest seats, is costing BA millions in lost revenue.
Last edited by Count Niemantznarr; 24th Mar 2013 at 14:48.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What about the two Club seats 60A/B that have to remain unsold just in case one of you wants to watch a film? Two flights to SIN every night, four Club seats that can't be sold. 730 Club pax denied a seat with a fare of £3500 average each way = £2,555,000 each year lost by BA.
Careful what you wish for.
Last edited by Wirbelsturm; 22nd Mar 2013 at 18:54.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wibblestim, you are being untruthful. The cabin crew rest seats are not saleable seats, but in an overhead rest area not accessed by passengers on both aircraft types.
The Club seats allocated for Flight Crew rest on the 747-400 and four class 777-200ER's could be sold. In fact more often than not you do not even use them.They are just empty.
The Club seats allocated for Flight Crew rest on the 747-400 and four class 777-200ER's could be sold. In fact more often than not you do not even use them.They are just empty.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The cabin crew rest seats are not saleable seats, but in an overhead rest area not accessed by passengers on both aircraft types.
If there are overhead rest areas available on the 777 then there are no seats in the cabin for flight crew either. The only time cabin rest seats are available (normally 11k) for flight crew are if there is a 'dog box' at the back of first class. Cabin seats are only allocated for specific sectors as labelled in the FCN.
Do try and keep up Count.
There was an 'understanding' with the Company that if attendance became a problem on certain identified routes which had previously paid high allowances, BALPA would have to deal with it. NRT became a weak link when the hourly rate was introduced.
The cabin crew rest seats are not saleable seats, but in an overhead rest area not accessed by passengers on both aircraft types.
Last edited by wiggy; 22nd Mar 2013 at 20:27.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wubblestrim,you are still trying to muddy the water. The
GE 777-200's to be specific, are not long range aircraft, so do not fly to SIN. There is no dedicated overhead rest area on those aircraft so a curtained off area with one row of three seats is allocated. Flight crew frequently upgrade themselves from the 11K Club seat on three man pilot sectors, to a First class seat.
Currently on non stop flights to SIN and back, on both 747's the flight crew compliment is four, two Captains and two F/O's. These sectors could easily be accomplished with just one Captain and two F/O's. This alone would save BA at least £3m a year on the SIN/LHR sectors. Giving up the two Club seats as well would give a total saving of around £5.5m a year. More than four times the amount BA may save by replacing Legacy cabin crew on the route.
BA has been held to ransom for too long over these costly flight crew perks, profitability on routes should not be subject to archaic union diktats.
GE 777-200's to be specific, are not long range aircraft, so do not fly to SIN. There is no dedicated overhead rest area on those aircraft so a curtained off area with one row of three seats is allocated. Flight crew frequently upgrade themselves from the 11K Club seat on three man pilot sectors, to a First class seat.
Currently on non stop flights to SIN and back, on both 747's the flight crew compliment is four, two Captains and two F/O's. These sectors could easily be accomplished with just one Captain and two F/O's. This alone would save BA at least £3m a year on the SIN/LHR sectors. Giving up the two Club seats as well would give a total saving of around £5.5m a year. More than four times the amount BA may save by replacing Legacy cabin crew on the route.
BA has been held to ransom for too long over these costly flight crew perks, profitability on routes should not be subject to archaic union diktats.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Camp X-Ray
Posts: 2,135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It can't be done with one Captain and two FO's any more than it can be done with 12 cabin crew. Or are you volunteering that?
Now, where did you get the precise breakdown of actual passenger loads and ticket prices to determine BA could have sold those rest seats for £2.5M? Or did you just pluck that number out of thin air?
I'll tell you what would save money though: giving the cabin crew 7 sets of eyeshades from the washbags rather than hundreds of pounds when the lights in the bunks won't go out.
Now, where did you get the precise breakdown of actual passenger loads and ticket prices to determine BA could have sold those rest seats for £2.5M? Or did you just pluck that number out of thin air?
I'll tell you what would save money though: giving the cabin crew 7 sets of eyeshades from the washbags rather than hundreds of pounds when the lights in the bunks won't go out.
Last edited by Hand Solo; 23rd Mar 2013 at 06:24.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: South of Watford
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Comrade Count,
I hope the foot is getting better?
ONLY if a First seat remains unsold, leaving 11K for the CSD?
Maybe both feet need attention after being shot so many times?
I hope the foot is getting better?
Flight crew frequently upgrade themselves from the 11K Club seat on three man pilot sectors, to a First class seat.
profitability on routes should not be subject to archaic union diktats.
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For goodness sake guys, I've just read through this drivel and after getting over the laughter I'm asking myself: 'why on earth are you bothering?'. It looks like a silly internal spat between BA emplyees, even though some of them no longer are BA employees!
Please let them whine their way into the obscurity they deserve and stop feeding them the oxygen they need to believe they actually matter.
Please let them whine their way into the obscurity they deserve and stop feeding them the oxygen they need to believe they actually matter.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UK
Age: 76
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Count
Without wanting to get into the cabin/flight crew politics, I was interested in your statement that the LHR-SIN-LHR trip could be flown with three pilots. Having looked at CAP371 http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP371.PDF I cannot see how this could be achieved. Would you be so kind as to explain your calculations?
PS...of course the new EASA regulations could change that when they come into force?
Without wanting to get into the cabin/flight crew politics, I was interested in your statement that the LHR-SIN-LHR trip could be flown with three pilots. Having looked at CAP371 http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP371.PDF I cannot see how this could be achieved. Would you be so kind as to explain your calculations?
PS...of course the new EASA regulations could change that when they come into force?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: global
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And the results are in! Following some not so subtle pressure by some individuals the skivers charter has been accepted! Feel a little sniffle coming on? Don't bother coming into work, just phone in sick and somebody else will do the work you get paid for. Oh, they've been force drafted because there's so much sickness? Never mind sucker, you should have had some dependents or union days you could swing to avoid the draft. And when EASA up the annual flying hours you'll be giving your employer 100 more hours of your time for nothing (did you really think they would be able to 'afford' to renegotiate the fixed payment?).
Congratulations to the British Airways Captains Council, possibly the fastest ever turnaround between winning something for the members and handing it straight back to BA with nobs on!
Congratulations to the British Airways Captains Council, possibly the fastest ever turnaround between winning something for the members and handing it straight back to BA with nobs on!
Last edited by Charlie Pop; 8th May 2013 at 16:31.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's the trouble with democracy, it's a bitch when your rhetoric does not win the argument and the vote goes against you. At least there is Pprune to come to, where you can whine about the unfairness of it all.
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,091
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Turnout was disappointing. Again. The most frustrating aspect is flying with people who say they didn't like either option, and didn't like the way the BACC handled it, so they didn't vote.
I do think that BALPA have shot us all by claiming a victory in the holiday pay, only to then find the legal implication of actually winning the case has meant many regular line pilots will lose over the long term.
I do think that BALPA have shot us all by claiming a victory in the holiday pay, only to then find the legal implication of actually winning the case has meant many regular line pilots will lose over the long term.
