easyJet Portugal. Worst contract in Europe
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My understanding is you can swap bases only, ie someone has to want to trade places with your slot in Lisbon! If that doesn't show how dreadful the contract is nothing will! WB must go home laughing his t*ts off!
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to those that say people here jumped the que:
partially its true. But some of us are here for personal circumstances and because of previous base closures.
Some others accepted it because they said: "better and internal cpt that has a guarantee to continue within the easyjet group than a DEC with a 2 years contract scared as s**t to lose his job"... because he doesn't know if he will be renewed or not...Who do you think will fight for better T&Cs??
We all (easyjet cpts) have a promise to transfer to another base in 2014. If the COmpany change its mind then we have a problem...
Unfortunately I made a mistake and thats why I'm here sharing my opinion and telling you not to come. This is hell.
I wanted to fight these T&C myself, from the inside. Because I'm not scared, but now I think its a lost battle. Too much has to change, including Government taxation which is ridiculous: a FO pays 45% taxes here...Insane.
So just STAY AWAY...This is bad even for your mental health..!!
partially its true. But some of us are here for personal circumstances and because of previous base closures.
Some others accepted it because they said: "better and internal cpt that has a guarantee to continue within the easyjet group than a DEC with a 2 years contract scared as s**t to lose his job"... because he doesn't know if he will be renewed or not...Who do you think will fight for better T&Cs??
We all (easyjet cpts) have a promise to transfer to another base in 2014. If the COmpany change its mind then we have a problem...
Unfortunately I made a mistake and thats why I'm here sharing my opinion and telling you not to come. This is hell.
I wanted to fight these T&C myself, from the inside. Because I'm not scared, but now I think its a lost battle. Too much has to change, including Government taxation which is ridiculous: a FO pays 45% taxes here...Insane.
So just STAY AWAY...This is bad even for your mental health..!!
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The company is struggling to crew the base anyway.
People now know how bad this is...thats why they changed the rules: now you can't transfer unless they find someone that can replace you...this means virtually never..!
People now know how bad this is...thats why they changed the rules: now you can't transfer unless they find someone that can replace you...this means virtually never..!
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For you easyJet pilots who have been there awhile and have the requisite hours and experience there is a potential solution: EK is starting to hire directly onto the A380.
The EK package seems quite competitive and you can get away from those killer LCC rosters. QR and the other large UAE airline are hiring too. Vote with your feet and go see the world.... At least an option to consider. Doubt the conditions in Europe will get better over time.
The EK package seems quite competitive and you can get away from those killer LCC rosters. QR and the other large UAE airline are hiring too. Vote with your feet and go see the world.... At least an option to consider. Doubt the conditions in Europe will get better over time.
Last edited by Iver; 2nd Feb 2013 at 14:08.
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What are you EZ boys and girls waiting to ground EZ airplanes once and for all for 3 days, a week, 3 weeks ??? Working in office jobs IN ADDITION TO your current crazy rosters ? Have your homes taken away because of a sudden requirement to achieve some obscure yield ? Having to pay part of your passengers tickets from your own pockets ? Your daughters in the red light quarter to finance your meager salaries ?????
What is the use of BALPA ? What sorts of excuses will this "union" come up with in order not to act ?
How can someone who cannot take control of his fate make the decision to go around when all goes pear shape ? How can you give the control of fast jets, within which strong decision making hence strong personality is key to safety, to people who cannot even decide to act for their own long term good ??
I know there's a great chance that my post will be erased but what the hell... This situation is turning into a farce. Year after year. "What kind of extra excuse can I find not to strike ? Hey, I'm still making more than the employee at Mc Donald's down the street. I still have more of a life than that poor bugger.".
Turkeys. And weak ones.
What is the use of BALPA ? What sorts of excuses will this "union" come up with in order not to act ?
How can someone who cannot take control of his fate make the decision to go around when all goes pear shape ? How can you give the control of fast jets, within which strong decision making hence strong personality is key to safety, to people who cannot even decide to act for their own long term good ??
I know there's a great chance that my post will be erased but what the hell... This situation is turning into a farce. Year after year. "What kind of extra excuse can I find not to strike ? Hey, I'm still making more than the employee at Mc Donald's down the street. I still have more of a life than that poor bugger.".
Turkeys. And weak ones.
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FRying,
You are so right and I agree 100%.
UNfortunately we are dealing with a UK airline where a UK colture in all over the places here...How many times I've heard colleagues saying: well I can join the Union as far as we don't strike
Unfortunately this is what Mrs. Thatcher brought. A colture of fear and submission towards the employer...
I think this time will be different though...cos people is really fed up down here and I think people has finally realized that there is not much to lose...
But yes, I'm ashamed of my colleagues most of the times...scared of their own shade...unable to make decisions even if they like to be called "Commanders"...
You are so right and I agree 100%.
UNfortunately we are dealing with a UK airline where a UK colture in all over the places here...How many times I've heard colleagues saying: well I can join the Union as far as we don't strike
Unfortunately this is what Mrs. Thatcher brought. A colture of fear and submission towards the employer...
I think this time will be different though...cos people is really fed up down here and I think people has finally realized that there is not much to lose...
But yes, I'm ashamed of my colleagues most of the times...scared of their own shade...unable to make decisions even if they like to be called "Commanders"...
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zumzum,
I think you've made your own 'command' decision which has led you to where you are. I'm guessing your in Lisbon due to a base closure but that you could have gone to another base as an FO. Since Madrid closed recently you had since last April to figure out what the Lisbon Captains contract was like and you still decided to go. Is it really your colleagues you should be ashamed of?
I think you've made your own 'command' decision which has led you to where you are. I'm guessing your in Lisbon due to a base closure but that you could have gone to another base as an FO. Since Madrid closed recently you had since last April to figure out what the Lisbon Captains contract was like and you still decided to go. Is it really your colleagues you should be ashamed of?
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Peacekeeper,
I wouldn't be so stupid to put my career path within easyjet. We have few ex mad pilots here anyway.
Secondly I'm not ashamed of anything...and I doubt this is the place to discuss or blame each other for what has happened.
I'm not blaming you for having in the Uk alone 60/70% of the FOs flexicrew, even if I probably should because this is the way it goes in easyJet. Everyone complaining but nobody does s**t.
I started this thread because I wanted to make people aware of how bad this contract is. Many things were hidden from us when we signed (read sick pay etc.) and others unexpected (tax increase by 11% this year alone) and I just wanted to give an heads up. Inform people that is probably considering EZY Portugal. Full stop.
Then if you want to start a new conversation about who's responsable for what let me know...I have a couple of things to say regarding your lovely BALPA, which allowed this contract in a first place btw (or you want to hide behind the story that had no jurisdiction because was a different Country and bla bla bla...) ...Because you are a BALPA member isn't it??? Or you are one of those guys that say: "I can't afford the membership.."or "I don't believe in unions..."?
I wouldn't be so stupid to put my career path within easyjet. We have few ex mad pilots here anyway.
Secondly I'm not ashamed of anything...and I doubt this is the place to discuss or blame each other for what has happened.
I'm not blaming you for having in the Uk alone 60/70% of the FOs flexicrew, even if I probably should because this is the way it goes in easyJet. Everyone complaining but nobody does s**t.
I started this thread because I wanted to make people aware of how bad this contract is. Many things were hidden from us when we signed (read sick pay etc.) and others unexpected (tax increase by 11% this year alone) and I just wanted to give an heads up. Inform people that is probably considering EZY Portugal. Full stop.
Then if you want to start a new conversation about who's responsable for what let me know...I have a couple of things to say regarding your lovely BALPA, which allowed this contract in a first place btw (or you want to hide behind the story that had no jurisdiction because was a different Country and bla bla bla...) ...Because you are a BALPA member isn't it??? Or you are one of those guys that say: "I can't afford the membership.."or "I don't believe in unions..."?
Last edited by zumzum; 3rd Feb 2013 at 08:41.
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Guys, guys, guys... Do yourself a favor, make your future better. That will be at a cost today (not getting paid for several days. Who cares...). But the return on investment will be absolutely HUGE !
Ground these f-in airplanes for several days. Then get back to negociation demanding a good pay scheme and a good ON/OFF patern as well a stop to this CTC non-sense. EZ management still play the bully ? Go for another round of 3, 4 or 10 days on the ground.
EZ shares will drop like leaves in fall. I swear they'll beg for a truce. End of story.
Ground these f-in airplanes for several days. Then get back to negociation demanding a good pay scheme and a good ON/OFF patern as well a stop to this CTC non-sense. EZ management still play the bully ? Go for another round of 3, 4 or 10 days on the ground.
EZ shares will drop like leaves in fall. I swear they'll beg for a truce. End of story.
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Nope. Not subtle about it. I'm aware of that. This situation is not subtle either. I'd even say it's very vulgar in essence.
Easyjet has reached a critical mass. T&Cs at EZ have an impact on the industry as a whole. When you guys don't take your responsibilities and mess up your own T&Cs, that does not have an impact on you alone. Why should I be "subtle" ? This situation has gone way beyond acceptable and has turned raw. There's no room for philosophy anymore. Philosophers get eaten alive.
I read comments calling for evading to the Middle east. What are you ? Wimps ? "Oh, I'm so scared I have to leave to the moon. Maybe they'll be nice to me up there. I'm only a poor little gentle puppy. Don't hit me and I'll be your friend."....Pathetic !
When are you going to act as grown ups, for christ sake ? Management is playing cat and mouse with you, using the wide range of your weaknesses. And you're diving into it.
This supply and demand issue is BS. If they're told "no pilot will get paid anything less than 60 grand upon landing at EZ or your planes stay on the ground", you'll see you could have 500 cadets waiting at the gate and EZ pilots receiving good salaries and a more livable life. This supply and demand issue is only good for those who don't want to face the abrupt reality and the fact they will have to go to war at some point, whether they like it or not.
Joe Public is not an issue either. He'll never agree on a strike anyway and will always think you get paid too much. Who cares ??? He'll have to buy his cheap ticket some other day or fly another airline. That's part of the pressuring tool too.
Last but not least, the impact of an increase of your salaries upon the ticket fares is minimal. Some try to scare you away making believe low fare tickets rely on you being reduced to slavery. That is so false. Make your own calculation on a first officer being paid 4000 pounds instead of 2000. Divide this 2000 difference by the total number of passengers flown in a month. That's only 0,22 pounds extra on each ticket if you fly 8400 pax in a month !!!! Do you realise how far from ruining your airline you are by demanding decent salaries ??? It has nothing to do with "we have to pay you peanuts or we'll have to charge twice as much".
What is certain, though, is that 1800 pilots giving up 2000 pounds a month translates into a 43,200,000 pounds gain for the airline in a year. Solution ? Increase average fares by a rough 0.50 pounds and the airline will still make the same sorts of profits with no decrease in pax numbers as the change is painless. No change in business model and no need to make people live in hell. Everybody's a winner.
So, act.
The only thing is it takes a bit of guts and planning.
Easyjet has reached a critical mass. T&Cs at EZ have an impact on the industry as a whole. When you guys don't take your responsibilities and mess up your own T&Cs, that does not have an impact on you alone. Why should I be "subtle" ? This situation has gone way beyond acceptable and has turned raw. There's no room for philosophy anymore. Philosophers get eaten alive.
I read comments calling for evading to the Middle east. What are you ? Wimps ? "Oh, I'm so scared I have to leave to the moon. Maybe they'll be nice to me up there. I'm only a poor little gentle puppy. Don't hit me and I'll be your friend."....Pathetic !
When are you going to act as grown ups, for christ sake ? Management is playing cat and mouse with you, using the wide range of your weaknesses. And you're diving into it.
This supply and demand issue is BS. If they're told "no pilot will get paid anything less than 60 grand upon landing at EZ or your planes stay on the ground", you'll see you could have 500 cadets waiting at the gate and EZ pilots receiving good salaries and a more livable life. This supply and demand issue is only good for those who don't want to face the abrupt reality and the fact they will have to go to war at some point, whether they like it or not.
Joe Public is not an issue either. He'll never agree on a strike anyway and will always think you get paid too much. Who cares ??? He'll have to buy his cheap ticket some other day or fly another airline. That's part of the pressuring tool too.
Last but not least, the impact of an increase of your salaries upon the ticket fares is minimal. Some try to scare you away making believe low fare tickets rely on you being reduced to slavery. That is so false. Make your own calculation on a first officer being paid 4000 pounds instead of 2000. Divide this 2000 difference by the total number of passengers flown in a month. That's only 0,22 pounds extra on each ticket if you fly 8400 pax in a month !!!! Do you realise how far from ruining your airline you are by demanding decent salaries ??? It has nothing to do with "we have to pay you peanuts or we'll have to charge twice as much".
What is certain, though, is that 1800 pilots giving up 2000 pounds a month translates into a 43,200,000 pounds gain for the airline in a year. Solution ? Increase average fares by a rough 0.50 pounds and the airline will still make the same sorts of profits with no decrease in pax numbers as the change is painless. No change in business model and no need to make people live in hell. Everybody's a winner.
So, act.
The only thing is it takes a bit of guts and planning.
Last edited by FRying; 4th Feb 2013 at 07:58.
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Well said FrYing!.
We are being duped into believing that ****ty pay and conditions is the only way an airline can survive.It is not true,greedy b€&@ds just want more mo'!.
Vueling will be hiring pilots for 700€ base,they want guys with less than 600hr total who will comply no matter what...experience is worth nothing to the MBA wunderkids.
We are being duped into believing that ****ty pay and conditions is the only way an airline can survive.It is not true,greedy b€&@ds just want more mo'!.
Vueling will be hiring pilots for 700€ base,they want guys with less than 600hr total who will comply no matter what...experience is worth nothing to the MBA wunderkids.
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Right. And very honestly, if I were one of these managers I would do the exact same thing. Shafting all I can since there is no response. Who cares as long as my bonus gets as high as the Empire state building ?!! And I would be laughing with my fellow managers at those dumb pilots taking all the cr@p-and-I-never-thought-that-was-even-possible-that-is-going-way-beyond-my-hottest-fantasies-those-pilots-are-so-stupid !!!
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Nope. Not subtle about it. I'm aware of that. This situation is not subtle either. I'd even say it's very vulgar in essence.
Easyjet has reached a critical mass. T&Cs at EZ have an impact on the industry as a whole. When you guys don't take your responsibilities and mess up your own T&Cs, that does not have an impact on you alone. Why should I be "subtle" ? This situation has gone way beyond acceptable and has turned raw. There's no room for philosophy anymore. Philosophers get eaten alive.
I read comments calling for evading to the Middle east. What are you ? Wimps ? "Oh, I'm so scared I have to leave to the moon. Maybe they'll be nice to me up there. I'm only a poor little gentle puppy. Don't hit me and I'll be your friend."....Pathetic !
When are you going to act as grown ups, for christ sake ? Management is playing cat and mouse with you, using the wide range of your weaknesses. And you're diving into it.
This supply and demand issue is BS. If they're told "no pilot will get paid anything less than 60 grand upon landing at EZ or your planes stay on the ground", you'll see you could have 500 cadets waiting at the gate and EZ pilots receiving good salaries and a more livable life. This supply and demand issue is only good for those who don't want to face the abrupt reality and the fact they will have to go to war at some point, whether they like it or not.
Joe Public is not an issue either. He'll never agree on a strike anyway and will always think you get paid too much. Who cares ??? He'll have to buy his cheap ticket some other day or fly another airline. That's part of the pressuring tool too.
Last but not least, the impact of an increase of your salaries upon the ticket fares is minimal. Some try to scare you away making believe low fare tickets rely on you being reduced to slavery. That is so false. Make your own calculation on a first officer being paid 4000 pounds instead of 2000. Divide this 2000 difference by the total number of passengers flown in a month. That's only 0,22 pounds extra on each ticket if you fly 8400 pax in a month !!!! Do you realise how far from ruining your airline you are by demanding decent salaries ??? It has nothing to do with "we have to pay you peanuts or we'll have to charge twice as much".
What is certain, though, is that 1800 pilots giving up 2000 pounds a month translates into a 43,200,000 pounds gain for the airline in a year. Solution ? Increase average fares by a rough 0.50 pounds and the airline will still make the same sorts of profits with no decrease in pax numbers as the change is painless. No change in business model and no need to make people live in hell. Everybody's a winner.
So, act.
The only thing is it takes a bit of guts and planning.
Easyjet has reached a critical mass. T&Cs at EZ have an impact on the industry as a whole. When you guys don't take your responsibilities and mess up your own T&Cs, that does not have an impact on you alone. Why should I be "subtle" ? This situation has gone way beyond acceptable and has turned raw. There's no room for philosophy anymore. Philosophers get eaten alive.
I read comments calling for evading to the Middle east. What are you ? Wimps ? "Oh, I'm so scared I have to leave to the moon. Maybe they'll be nice to me up there. I'm only a poor little gentle puppy. Don't hit me and I'll be your friend."....Pathetic !
When are you going to act as grown ups, for christ sake ? Management is playing cat and mouse with you, using the wide range of your weaknesses. And you're diving into it.
This supply and demand issue is BS. If they're told "no pilot will get paid anything less than 60 grand upon landing at EZ or your planes stay on the ground", you'll see you could have 500 cadets waiting at the gate and EZ pilots receiving good salaries and a more livable life. This supply and demand issue is only good for those who don't want to face the abrupt reality and the fact they will have to go to war at some point, whether they like it or not.
Joe Public is not an issue either. He'll never agree on a strike anyway and will always think you get paid too much. Who cares ??? He'll have to buy his cheap ticket some other day or fly another airline. That's part of the pressuring tool too.
Last but not least, the impact of an increase of your salaries upon the ticket fares is minimal. Some try to scare you away making believe low fare tickets rely on you being reduced to slavery. That is so false. Make your own calculation on a first officer being paid 4000 pounds instead of 2000. Divide this 2000 difference by the total number of passengers flown in a month. That's only 0,22 pounds extra on each ticket if you fly 8400 pax in a month !!!! Do you realise how far from ruining your airline you are by demanding decent salaries ??? It has nothing to do with "we have to pay you peanuts or we'll have to charge twice as much".
What is certain, though, is that 1800 pilots giving up 2000 pounds a month translates into a 43,200,000 pounds gain for the airline in a year. Solution ? Increase average fares by a rough 0.50 pounds and the airline will still make the same sorts of profits with no decrease in pax numbers as the change is painless. No change in business model and no need to make people live in hell. Everybody's a winner.
So, act.
The only thing is it takes a bit of guts and planning.
Very well said Frying.
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...betray complete ignorance of the laws governing industrial action in the UK. Such action would be illegal as so called secondary action, and would leave all those taking part in it, and any union that organised it, open to wide ranging legal remedies. i.e. Action for breach of contract. Any pilots taking part in secondary action could face dismissal.
I am not for one minute suggesting that Flexiscrew is a good thing. It is a disaster for the long term future of the piloting "profession". However, unfortunate though it is, there is very little that can be done to stop the rot.
I am not for one minute suggesting that Flexiscrew is a good thing. It is a disaster for the long term future of the piloting "profession". However, unfortunate though it is, there is very little that can be done to stop the rot.
What is happening to EZ now is a complete disaster to everybody, and a complete disrespect to our profession. But I am afraid the problem is not only with EZ... we just need to look around (most particularly in the EU and US) to see the disaster...
Last edited by busav8r; 4th Feb 2013 at 19:15.
