Orange diarrhoea
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Robmedium - wary as I am discussing individuals on a public forum, LC is exactly who you want in management. She is for the Company but is also absolutely for the pilots. She has years of experience in BALPA and has not done a single thing in management to misuse that experience - nor do I expect her to do so. Like it or not many of the qualities required to be an effective BALPA rep are exactly those required of an airline manager. The last person you want in management is a union-hater, who will just take on all comers out of some misguided sense of duty.
I am not at all sure of WB's golfing arrangements, but if they include playing with BALPA reps, then that is just fine by me. Some of the greatest business deals of all time have been worked out in the 19th hole - it would not bother me one whit if that were the case here. If I became a BALPA rep tomorrow, the first thing I would do would be to go out for a curry with my opposite number and find out exactly where he/she is coming from. All the best results come from good working relationships and not bad ones. The CC will be judged by their results and not who they play golf with.
I am not at all sure of WB's golfing arrangements, but if they include playing with BALPA reps, then that is just fine by me. Some of the greatest business deals of all time have been worked out in the 19th hole - it would not bother me one whit if that were the case here. If I became a BALPA rep tomorrow, the first thing I would do would be to go out for a curry with my opposite number and find out exactly where he/she is coming from. All the best results come from good working relationships and not bad ones. The CC will be judged by their results and not who they play golf with.
ROBMEDIUM - either you haven't been reading Balpa newsletters for the last six months or, most probably, you're not a Balpa member. Golf with WB! Crewmour. Now back to the topic.
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Gee AdM are you for real, or just stirring?
Have a look at a certain ex BA head honcho to see
why poachers should never become gamekeepers...
Have a look at a certain ex BA head honcho to see
why poachers should never become gamekeepers...
Last edited by Leg; 23rd Dec 2012 at 00:34.
I'm going to jump to the defence of LC here too, have any of you who are criticising actually delt with her? Or are you making your opinions based on rumours and images you've conjured up in your heads? I suspect the latter.
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Guys & girls
please lay off discussing individuals here
The UK has stringent laws regarding libel, slander and general defamation etc and London hosts a herd of very expensive lawyers who would love to chase you down
please lay off discussing individuals here
The UK has stringent laws regarding libel, slander and general defamation etc and London hosts a herd of very expensive lawyers who would love to chase you down
The UK has stringent laws regarding libel, slander and general defamation
Harry, Harry, Harry, puhleese! Do let's keep a sense of proportion! Nothing written here has even begun to remotely approach any of that.
Let's keep the paranoia under control shall we, else all discussion will be stifled!
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If you don't know, you don't need to know, unless you want to enter the waters alluded to by Heathrow Harry.
Keep it unidentifiable and keep the discussion going, fascinating stuff.
Keep it unidentifiable and keep the discussion going, fascinating stuff.
If anyone thinks defamation or libel is constituted by saying someone plays golf with someone else they are dreaming.
How about actually taking the trouble to look the criteria up on Wiki or similar before making these daft and misleading suggestions that naming someone on the internet is actionable? We are constrained enough with real rules without adding made-up urban myths like this to further stifle our every action.
Defamation is such a serious and UNTRUE allegation against a person that they suffer loss or their standing & good character is publicly damaged. You've got to do a whole lot more than merely refer to someone as a thieving pikey to do that - golf doesn't even begin to feature!
A bit of reality wouldn't go amiss, people!
How about actually taking the trouble to look the criteria up on Wiki or similar before making these daft and misleading suggestions that naming someone on the internet is actionable? We are constrained enough with real rules without adding made-up urban myths like this to further stifle our every action.
Defamation is such a serious and UNTRUE allegation against a person that they suffer loss or their standing & good character is publicly damaged. You've got to do a whole lot more than merely refer to someone as a thieving pikey to do that - golf doesn't even begin to feature!
A bit of reality wouldn't go amiss, people!
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The issue of who is libelling who here is way off topic, and frankly no one cares. If some individual takes offence at what is said and is sufficiently upset to do something about it, he will no doubt seek some sort of resolution through the courts. I completely agree with Wageslave that mentioning people by name here is not libel, and a whole lot of non-lawyers who have been watching too many American soap operas are worrying about things which really do not concern them. The individual who posts something has the responsibility to consider what they write, and no one else needs to give a second's thought to the matter.
Back to the topic, I am still waiting to hear some genuinely better options than easyJet (outside national carriers) - enlighten me please.
Back to the topic, I am still waiting to hear some genuinely better options than easyJet (outside national carriers) - enlighten me please.
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In order to keep this thread going.
Firstly I hope everyone had a merry christmas and will enjoy a happy new year.
Slightly off thread I am reliably informed that local base management are in receipt of annual bonuses which are dependent on reaching targets. My question is does anyone know what those targets are and if so could you let us know? That is subject to company confidentiality of course !!!!!!!
Would single engine taxi targets at base be part of this?
Firstly I hope everyone had a merry christmas and will enjoy a happy new year.
Slightly off thread I am reliably informed that local base management are in receipt of annual bonuses which are dependent on reaching targets. My question is does anyone know what those targets are and if so could you let us know? That is subject to company confidentiality of course !!!!!!!
Would single engine taxi targets at base be part of this?
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Pretty sure fuel saving has taken a back seat to OTP as a Key Performance Indicator. When was the last time you received a company missive encouraging single engine taxi or flaps 3 landing?
Also LC was particularly keen for a strong uSay response and openly disappointed when one did not arise.
Also LC was particularly keen for a strong uSay response and openly disappointed when one did not arise.
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Could it be that LC was actually acting on our behalf and wanted to see an emphatic response from all pilots rather than the pathetic, half-hearted effort that actually occurred? The effect of uSay would have been infinitely greater with a 90% return. The senior management view appears to be that it is only the Trainers that really care about flexicrew contracts and that the flexicrew themselves are just desperate to sign on the line. The low uSay engagement has just reinforced that view. There will no doubt be sincere and genuine individuals on here who wanted to make a point by not participating. In the end, however, their genuine efforts were misplaced and they turned out to be sincerely wrong - there was no shortage of people telling them, but that is life.
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AdM the purpose of uSay is for the company to publish the response rate in its annual report to shareholders. The results matter not and you are deluded if you believe otherwise.
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In addition to what the previous 2 posters have pointed out I'd like to highlight the fact that uSay/pulse has never worked in the favour of the workforce whether it was responding in majority or minority, positively or negatively.
...and surely even AdM must be slightly cynical about the desperate efforts of DM/CW/MW/DM/LC/whoever the base manager at the time is's desperate efforts to increase the response rate in their base.
Last edited by ChocksAwayUK; 28th Dec 2012 at 18:57.
In fact, AdM, it is the opposite. Do you remember U-say a couple of years ago, probably called pulse at that time? The response was good and as a majority of the pilots were happy management decided they could limit our payrise as we wouldn't leave anyhow.
Last edited by SpGo; 28th Dec 2012 at 19:12.
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I did not fill in pulse this year. I have not see the evidence that AdM clearly has that unambiguously proves that I was in error to do so.
Perhaps he can share those facts here, so that I do not make the same mistake next year, if in fact it was a mistake, because up until now I thought I had read every management notice on the topic and listened to every weekly call too, none of which have made me regret my decision, but clearly I have missed something important as AdM seems to KNOW that this was wrong and has the facts to back that position up rather than just opinion.
AdM?
Perhaps he can share those facts here, so that I do not make the same mistake next year, if in fact it was a mistake, because up until now I thought I had read every management notice on the topic and listened to every weekly call too, none of which have made me regret my decision, but clearly I have missed something important as AdM seems to KNOW that this was wrong and has the facts to back that position up rather than just opinion.
AdM?
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Good to see everyone coming out of the post-Christmas blocks in fighting form. Trying to prove to everyone that you should have filled-in the uSay questionnaire is like to trying to prove to the NRA in the States that there is relationship between gun crime and gun availability. It is not a direct relationship, but the relationship exists nonetheless for anyone who wants to take a rational view of it. The problem is that the NRA cannot cede ground for fear of losing everything, and they therefore end up arguing black is white. It is totally self-evident that guns being around mean more people get shot - but not to people who have much to lose by admitting the truth that everyone else sees. That is what it is like trying to get those who vote with their feet see the practical outworking of their actions.
Whilst still on the subject of the US, arguably the world's greatest democracy, typically less than 55% of eligible voters ever vote in presidential elections. Does anyone care what the other 45% thought? Not one bit, sadly. Put simply, you have to be in it to win it - no one cares what a non-voter thinks as they have no influence of any kind. People who do not vote sometimes do it out of apathy and sometime as a statement - however well-intentioned they may have been, they just leave the field of play and take no further part in proceedings. Nearer home, many people are happy to let everyone else be in BALPA so they can pay the subs, but are disgruntled when BALPA is not as effective as they wanted and therefore cite that as a reason for not joining BALPA. What gives a Union power is the percentage support among its members. Yet there are numerous people openly saying they will support BALPA when it becomes more powerful - they may be waiting a very long time.
That brings us to the issue of uSay, and the proud list of non-participants on display here. It is totally self-evident that if your opinion is asked, and you decline to give it, then your opinion no longer counts. The root of the ill-feeling here lies in the fact that under a previous CEO, positive uSay results (called Pulse then), were used to adversely affect the outcome of subsequent pay talks. I fully accept that such a crass move by management was a terrible tactical blunder that opened the door to the mistrust that exists today. Nonetheless, we have to be bigger than that, and recognise that to decline to give an opinion is interpreted as not having one. Hence the tragedy that our senior management believe that the only people who care about flexicrew (trust me - this is absolutely the case), are the Trainers because they are the main ones making a fuss about it. In visits round crewrooms, the flexicrew stay quiet or just grovel in front of key people, the line crews often do not get involved because 'nothing ever changes anyway', and then hardly any pilots fill-in uSay. They see that as a protest - the Company see it as a lack of interest. A painful truth, but a truth nonetheless.
Whilst still on the subject of the US, arguably the world's greatest democracy, typically less than 55% of eligible voters ever vote in presidential elections. Does anyone care what the other 45% thought? Not one bit, sadly. Put simply, you have to be in it to win it - no one cares what a non-voter thinks as they have no influence of any kind. People who do not vote sometimes do it out of apathy and sometime as a statement - however well-intentioned they may have been, they just leave the field of play and take no further part in proceedings. Nearer home, many people are happy to let everyone else be in BALPA so they can pay the subs, but are disgruntled when BALPA is not as effective as they wanted and therefore cite that as a reason for not joining BALPA. What gives a Union power is the percentage support among its members. Yet there are numerous people openly saying they will support BALPA when it becomes more powerful - they may be waiting a very long time.
That brings us to the issue of uSay, and the proud list of non-participants on display here. It is totally self-evident that if your opinion is asked, and you decline to give it, then your opinion no longer counts. The root of the ill-feeling here lies in the fact that under a previous CEO, positive uSay results (called Pulse then), were used to adversely affect the outcome of subsequent pay talks. I fully accept that such a crass move by management was a terrible tactical blunder that opened the door to the mistrust that exists today. Nonetheless, we have to be bigger than that, and recognise that to decline to give an opinion is interpreted as not having one. Hence the tragedy that our senior management believe that the only people who care about flexicrew (trust me - this is absolutely the case), are the Trainers because they are the main ones making a fuss about it. In visits round crewrooms, the flexicrew stay quiet or just grovel in front of key people, the line crews often do not get involved because 'nothing ever changes anyway', and then hardly any pilots fill-in uSay. They see that as a protest - the Company see it as a lack of interest. A painful truth, but a truth nonetheless.