Pilot pay.
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Pilot pay.
Apologies if this is in the wrong bit, Mod(s) please feel free to remove it to the correct bit.
Now, the vexed question of pay. A still workingrailway colleague of mine mentioned en passant that Virgin trains are advertising for qualified drivers with a salary on offer of £53k P.A. With a bit of shift allowance, London weighting and the occasional rest day working this would likely to top out at circa £56-7K.
How does that compare with say, a 737 Captain with a major(ish) airline?
Now, the vexed question of pay. A still workingrailway colleague of mine mentioned en passant that Virgin trains are advertising for qualified drivers with a salary on offer of £53k P.A. With a bit of shift allowance, London weighting and the occasional rest day working this would likely to top out at circa £56-7K.
How does that compare with say, a 737 Captain with a major(ish) airline?
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poorly! for the UK
Depending how many years service (say 5) a jet FO should easily exceed that and a similar paypoint skipper should be on at least 85k. (inc variable pay)
There will be loads of examples higher and lower, but there will always be other factors which are affecting the pay.
In the UK £55k is ERJ145 skipper money, I think.
As an aside, I would imagine that £55k is what most accountants in the airlines think we are worth.
Depending how many years service (say 5) a jet FO should easily exceed that and a similar paypoint skipper should be on at least 85k. (inc variable pay)
There will be loads of examples higher and lower, but there will always be other factors which are affecting the pay.
In the UK £55k is ERJ145 skipper money, I think.
As an aside, I would imagine that £55k is what most accountants in the airlines think we are worth.
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A S/H Captain with Ezy or BA will earn ballpark 100k a year. Some will earn a fair amount more with bonuses/allowances. So you are looking at roughly twice what a Virgin Trains driver brings in. For a closer comparison, an F/O in their first few years at BA (direct entry salary) earns around 60-65k with potential to boost that with overtime.
I too have a few friends working for the railways and it seems a VT driver position is seen as something of a career aspiration as they are towards the top end of the pay scale along with Eurostar drivers. These guys are working alone for hours on end and in charge of a train travelling at speeds of well over 100mph that will carry hundreds of people long distances - I would say that is a reasonable amount of responsibility for what they earn, but just as with airline pilot salaries, the accountants have other ideas. The testing and training of drivers has a very high failure rate and there is a lot more to the job than public perception would have you believe - sound familiar pilots?
I too have a few friends working for the railways and it seems a VT driver position is seen as something of a career aspiration as they are towards the top end of the pay scale along with Eurostar drivers. These guys are working alone for hours on end and in charge of a train travelling at speeds of well over 100mph that will carry hundreds of people long distances - I would say that is a reasonable amount of responsibility for what they earn, but just as with airline pilot salaries, the accountants have other ideas. The testing and training of drivers has a very high failure rate and there is a lot more to the job than public perception would have you believe - sound familiar pilots?
an F/O in their first few years at BA (direct entry salary) earns around 60-65k
Considering the relative complexities of the two jobs, I'd say a Virgin train driver is well paid compared with an airline pilot.
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The highest you are likely to be paid in the UK as a year one FO (DEP only) is at BA. Basic salary short of £51K, with flight pay etc bringing it up towards the 60K mark. Other comparable salaries would be with the likes of Monarch or Virgin. Thomson aren't offering full time positions and the likes of Easyjet and Ryanair will pay you by the block hour. Yes there are full time permanent guys at each of these operators, however the respective airlines aren't the faintest bit interested in offering such deals. Not sure what the other major operators such as FlyBe are paying. However it's always been a permanent contract to my knowledge.
So by and large airline pilots are now on par with train, tube and bus drivers when it comes to income and in a lot of cases are actually worse off.
So by and large airline pilots are now on par with train, tube and bus drivers when it comes to income and in a lot of cases are actually worse off.
Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 14th Dec 2012 at 12:28.
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Virgin drivers are amongst the best paid in the industry, most drivers earn between 35 and 45k. Im not diminishing the job of an airline pilot but train drivers have to be concentrating 100% of the time as they dont have the luxury of an autopilot to do a large proportion of their job for them. They also work alone, long gone are the days of having 2 drivers, and therefore cant put their feet up and grab 40 winks during the course of their journey.
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The point I was trying to make is that the best paid train drivers in the uk are paid a salary comparable to an F/O on a jet with one of the better paying airlines. A jet Captain is still paid considerably more. For the respective roles and responsibility I think the pay differential is about right.
[QUOTE]The starting salary for direct entry FOs at BA during the aborted recruitment drive was about £50k IIRC.
/QUOTE]
plus 10-15k in allowances, hence...
[QUOTE]The starting salary for direct entry FOs at BA during the aborted recruitment drive was about £50k IIRC.
/QUOTE]
plus 10-15k in allowances, hence...
Yep, allowances are on top, of course.
I disagree with the above. in my opinion driving a train in two dimensions along an immovable track, even if one must stay awake, is simply incomparable with the complexities of airline flying in three dimensions in an environment hostile to human life. Train drivers do not have to worry about hand driving off the rails, turnarounds, fuel, complex arrivals in many different countries, foreign ATC, pax, and the myriad of possible disasters that can befall the unwary or unlucky. I'll hazard a guess that train drivers do not learn to drive small trains, slightly bigger trains, then complicated trains with two engines etc etc. The only common denominator is bearing responsibility for many lives.
Anyway, back to thread.
I disagree with the above. in my opinion driving a train in two dimensions along an immovable track, even if one must stay awake, is simply incomparable with the complexities of airline flying in three dimensions in an environment hostile to human life. Train drivers do not have to worry about hand driving off the rails, turnarounds, fuel, complex arrivals in many different countries, foreign ATC, pax, and the myriad of possible disasters that can befall the unwary or unlucky. I'll hazard a guess that train drivers do not learn to drive small trains, slightly bigger trains, then complicated trains with two engines etc etc. The only common denominator is bearing responsibility for many lives.
Anyway, back to thread.
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[QUOTE] The highest you are likely to be paid in the UK as a year one FO (DEP only) is at BA. Basic salary short of £51K, with flight pay etc bringing it up towards the 60K mark. Other comparable salaries would be with the likes of Monarch or Virgin. Thomson aren't offering full time positions and the likes of Easyjet and Ryanair will pay you by the block hour. Yes there are full time permanent guys at each of these operators, however the respective airlines aren't the faintest bit interested in offering such deals. Not sure what the other major operators such as FlyBe are paying. However it's always been a permanent contract to my knowledge.
So by and large airline pilots are now on par with train, tube and bus drivers when it comes to income and in a lot of cases are actually worse off. /QUOTE]
Jesus Callsign Kilo, I know some people who are glass half empty types, but you take that to a whole new level. You are comparing a top job as a train driver with entry pilot positions and claiming that it means pilots are paid worse than train drivers. This is nonsense. A similarly experienced pilot would be on close to double what a train driver earns.
So by and large airline pilots are now on par with train, tube and bus drivers when it comes to income and in a lot of cases are actually worse off. /QUOTE]
Jesus Callsign Kilo, I know some people who are glass half empty types, but you take that to a whole new level. You are comparing a top job as a train driver with entry pilot positions and claiming that it means pilots are paid worse than train drivers. This is nonsense. A similarly experienced pilot would be on close to double what a train driver earns.
Last edited by nabanoba; 14th Dec 2012 at 17:34.
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And how much does a train driver pay for his/her training when compared to that which a pilot does? take that into consideration and i think you can see where CallsignKilo might be coming from.
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When a train driver falls a sleep the train stops automatically after a very short time, a cockpit crew in the same situation will find themself somewhere over the atlantic at about 10W and if lucky with enough fuel to return.
The main difference between a pilot and train, bus or lorry drivers is time!
If something goes wrong anyone else can stop and have a some while waiting for help, a pilot has limited time and possibilities to solve the problem.
The main difference between a pilot and train, bus or lorry drivers is time!
If something goes wrong anyone else can stop and have a some while waiting for help, a pilot has limited time and possibilities to solve the problem.
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At Afriqiyah Airways in Libya FOs can expect to be on around £50k after tax. Captains around £75k after tax. Living expenses minimal. Quality of life (outside airline) pretty poor.
Back to the VT train drivers, how does that compare with say a normal train driver? Aren't they generally well paid right across the board?
Back to the VT train drivers, how does that compare with say a normal train driver? Aren't they generally well paid right across the board?
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How many Bus or Train driver's have forked out £120,000 + to get their licence and then an additional £23k to £30k for a Routemaster/D Stock Tube licence and maybe another 20k for 500h of watching another driver?
How many experienced drivers are out of work because the companies only "employ" P2D contractor cadets?
How many experienced drivers are out of work because the companies only "employ" P2D contractor cadets?
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Wizzair pay
Wizz pay:
FO (PL contract) with TR: 2500
no TR: 1500 (first 15 mth)
SFO (PL contract) with TR: 2800
no TR: 1800 (first 15 mth)
CPT (PL contract) with TR: 4500
no TR: 3500 (first 15 mth)
All Euros paid after tax and social. Taxes done in a very doggy way (paid in Swiss?
) Not for long I guess...
All the best!
FO (PL contract) with TR: 2500
no TR: 1500 (first 15 mth)
SFO (PL contract) with TR: 2800
no TR: 1800 (first 15 mth)
CPT (PL contract) with TR: 4500
no TR: 3500 (first 15 mth)
All Euros paid after tax and social. Taxes done in a very doggy way (paid in Swiss?
) Not for long I guess...All the best!
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I work for a LCC in Europe.
They deduct 1000E per month from my salary for Bond.
Last month flew close to 90 hours, And took home after Tax and deductions 700euro.
Not Bad huh.
They deduct 1000E per month from my salary for Bond.
Last month flew close to 90 hours, And took home after Tax and deductions 700euro.
Not Bad huh.
