Required viewing for anyone contemplating a "career" in a well known LoCo airline
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I was led to believe the offer to become permanent wasn't one which happened much these days, and that a 10% pay-cut was de riguer on permanent contract if allocated the base of your choice.
What is the percentage of "lucky" campers like you left on a permanent contract ? I was led to believe 20-25% max.
Don't know about Contractors coining it in. . . the hourly rate tumbled a bit these last few years, as have the block hrs, and a week or two in Rygge on SBY would eat a fair chunk of your reduced hours. Wouldn't celebrate being paid in €, if you are in the Uk it is rapidly becoming junk currency.
The 20% tax is I guess normally in need of supplementing (or will be with the new legislation) by the amount required to pay both the employers & employees social contributions.
I am led to believe also that the term "based contractor" is fairly meaningless these days, and based or otherwise, you are floating to all intents & purposes, or maybe everyone I speak to 2 or 3 times a month when using you for commuting, is as negative about the industry as I am becoming
What is the percentage of "lucky" campers like you left on a permanent contract ? I was led to believe 20-25% max.
Don't know about Contractors coining it in. . . the hourly rate tumbled a bit these last few years, as have the block hrs, and a week or two in Rygge on SBY would eat a fair chunk of your reduced hours. Wouldn't celebrate being paid in €, if you are in the Uk it is rapidly becoming junk currency.
The 20% tax is I guess normally in need of supplementing (or will be with the new legislation) by the amount required to pay both the employers & employees social contributions.
I am led to believe also that the term "based contractor" is fairly meaningless these days, and based or otherwise, you are floating to all intents & purposes, or maybe everyone I speak to 2 or 3 times a month when using you for commuting, is as negative about the industry as I am becoming
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Cant disagree that permanent contracts dont come around that often but I heard there werent many takers for the last lot.
When I joined there wasnt such a thing as contract pilots in Ryanair however thats all changed and perhaps I am in a minority now as a permanent pilot.
I have had opportunities to convert to a 'contractor' contract but its just not for me.
Also a consideration is that I broke my collar bone about 5 years ago and because I was permanent I was sat at home with my arm in a sling for 3 months watching day time telly and drinking copious amounts of tea on full salary.
If I was on a contract it would be a case of no fly no money.
Sad to hear even the permanent contracts are not what they used to be.
When I joined there wasnt such a thing as contract pilots in Ryanair however thats all changed and perhaps I am in a minority now as a permanent pilot.
I have had opportunities to convert to a 'contractor' contract but its just not for me.
Also a consideration is that I broke my collar bone about 5 years ago and because I was permanent I was sat at home with my arm in a sling for 3 months watching day time telly and drinking copious amounts of tea on full salary.
If I was on a contract it would be a case of no fly no money.
Sad to hear even the permanent contracts are not what they used to be.
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Say Mach no:
You were on a roll there for a while until the "no fly no pay" bit.
Unfortunately that was the only true bit.
Believe me, I don't muck around where money is concerned. If it was worth doing I'd still be doing it. (Now 10k better off, working less, treated like a human being and home every single night).
You were on a roll there for a while until the "no fly no pay" bit.
Unfortunately that was the only true bit.
Believe me, I don't muck around where money is concerned. If it was worth doing I'd still be doing it. (Now 10k better off, working less, treated like a human being and home every single night).
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Say Mach No - You're exactly what they want, under the divide and conquer policy.
Can't you see the multitude of problems around you? Then again maybe you can't because you're quite happy to play the game at the expense of someone else's home life.
You and your kind are exactly what are making progress almost impossible.
Can't you see the multitude of problems around you? Then again maybe you can't because you're quite happy to play the game at the expense of someone else's home life.
You and your kind are exactly what are making progress almost impossible.
Last edited by Al Murdoch; 14th Dec 2012 at 20:49.
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a week or two in Rygge on SBY would eat a fair chunk of your reduced hours.
Exploitation?!
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Never heard of a Captain paying a noise fine.
16024 "Believe me, I don't muck around where money is concerned. If it was worth doing I'd still be doing it. (Now 10k better off, working less, treated like a human being and home every single night)."
16024 What are you referring too, that you no longer in loco or you are permanent?
As for being permanent I seriously felt for an FO I flew with recently who broke his ankle and was off work for 3 months on zero wages. I strongly encouraged him to go permanent at the first opportunity.
Personally I dont believe in contract pilots and what Ryanair are doing in this area I 100% agree is divide and conquer. However some of us have tried hard to get our pilots to stand up however from my experience in Ryanair its like this;
15% of pilots have an opinion and are prepared to stand up and voice it.
15% of pilots have an opinion and are not prepared to stand up and voice it.
And saddest of all the other 70% dont care either way as they get their money and roster on time and thats enough for them compared to some airlines they have been. Its pays the bills and mortgage and provides for their family.
Ryanair have 2500 pilots working for them. They cant all be deluded. Ryanair are a very clever company who make the conditions just good enough that its not so bad your typing a cv every month.
I have always regarded myself in the first category of 15% but sadly I have watched the apathy among the pilot group as the company has got bigger and more airlines have gone bust. When we were a small bunch of pilots about 120 when I joined we held the company to ransom when we refused working days off. Things changed big time.
Would never happen today sadly. Not that we should stop trying that is.
16024 "Believe me, I don't muck around where money is concerned. If it was worth doing I'd still be doing it. (Now 10k better off, working less, treated like a human being and home every single night)."
16024 What are you referring too, that you no longer in loco or you are permanent?
As for being permanent I seriously felt for an FO I flew with recently who broke his ankle and was off work for 3 months on zero wages. I strongly encouraged him to go permanent at the first opportunity.
Personally I dont believe in contract pilots and what Ryanair are doing in this area I 100% agree is divide and conquer. However some of us have tried hard to get our pilots to stand up however from my experience in Ryanair its like this;
15% of pilots have an opinion and are prepared to stand up and voice it.
15% of pilots have an opinion and are not prepared to stand up and voice it.
And saddest of all the other 70% dont care either way as they get their money and roster on time and thats enough for them compared to some airlines they have been. Its pays the bills and mortgage and provides for their family.
Ryanair have 2500 pilots working for them. They cant all be deluded. Ryanair are a very clever company who make the conditions just good enough that its not so bad your typing a cv every month.
I have always regarded myself in the first category of 15% but sadly I have watched the apathy among the pilot group as the company has got bigger and more airlines have gone bust. When we were a small bunch of pilots about 120 when I joined we held the company to ransom when we refused working days off. Things changed big time.
Would never happen today sadly. Not that we should stop trying that is.
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That was a very enlightening read. A few points stuck out in the mind of this US regional FO:
1. Why aren't you allowed to carry liquids through security if in uniform? As a world leader in "terror mongering", I'm surprised that the US security procedures seem a fair bit more sensible than the EU system.
2. The FA on his jumpseat flight seemed like a
. I've had to have that conversation with gate agents, but never with a flight attendant.
3. Are pilots in that habit of calling crew control when their colleagues are late? Many times, I've had the CA not show up until 10-15 minutes prior to pushback. I always have the paperwork printed and the aircraft ready to fly in that case.
4. 20 sectors in 5 days?!?!? That's 4 legs a day, every day. Is that standard for EU low cost carriers, or is that just Ryanair?
1. Why aren't you allowed to carry liquids through security if in uniform? As a world leader in "terror mongering", I'm surprised that the US security procedures seem a fair bit more sensible than the EU system.
2. The FA on his jumpseat flight seemed like a
. I've had to have that conversation with gate agents, but never with a flight attendant.3. Are pilots in that habit of calling crew control when their colleagues are late? Many times, I've had the CA not show up until 10-15 minutes prior to pushback. I always have the paperwork printed and the aircraft ready to fly in that case.
4. 20 sectors in 5 days?!?!? That's 4 legs a day, every day. Is that standard for EU low cost carriers, or is that just Ryanair?
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Check Airman,
1. It's just the UK where pilots cannot take liquids through staff security. Most other EU countries have sensible procedures for flight crew.
2. FAs are a variable bunch at Ryanair. Many are very nice indeed, and not just to look at
I think the bad attitude is symptomatic of a lack of manners and respect in modern society.
3. Yes. Pilots are very rarely late but most FOs would leave it a few minutes before calling CC, getting the aircraft ready to go etc in the meantime.
4. That's probably not far off standard in the EU locos in the summer season, especially for someone working out of base.
1. It's just the UK where pilots cannot take liquids through staff security. Most other EU countries have sensible procedures for flight crew.
2. FAs are a variable bunch at Ryanair. Many are very nice indeed, and not just to look at
I think the bad attitude is symptomatic of a lack of manners and respect in modern society.3. Yes. Pilots are very rarely late but most FOs would leave it a few minutes before calling CC, getting the aircraft ready to go etc in the meantime.
4. That's probably not far off standard in the EU locos in the summer season, especially for someone working out of base.
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He seemed to be talking a lot about beer for the night before with an early wakeup for duty(unless I misread).
Always a good idea to show up quite early for a new situation/location. 45 minutes seems short even if you are familiar with a place.
Repeatedly have to go to the washroom, headache, no breakfast, feel drained......should you be calling in sick. Just because you are at the aircraft doesn't mean you can't. What does this company typically do if this sort of thing happens?
Always a good idea to show up quite early for a new situation/location. 45 minutes seems short even if you are familiar with a place.
Repeatedly have to go to the washroom, headache, no breakfast, feel drained......should you be calling in sick. Just because you are at the aircraft doesn't mean you can't. What does this company typically do if this sort of thing happens?
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What twaddle this article is; the truth is that no one is forced to work in this industry or for any individual operation.
Market forces have dictated ever poorer Terms but we all keep turning up. Have to don't we?
No amount of whining will help;
Saturday morning 0700 and I'm off to work.... get the picture?
Market forces have dictated ever poorer Terms but we all keep turning up. Have to don't we?
No amount of whining will help;
Saturday morning 0700 and I'm off to work.... get the picture?
Last edited by BigNumber; 15th Dec 2012 at 06:03.
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Jammed stab; I agree, however, as soon as I read the line about "hand search my genitals", I assumed the whole piece was maybe slightly embellished for dramatic effect.
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antonov09 
where is Leo these days anyhow ?
vrb03kt whilst not the normal reason to be sent out of base, there is nothing to stop them doing so, and it can be used as a "reminder" that they are in charge.
Check Airman , as Depone said. . it's a UK thing
we just can't help ourself taking ourselves WAY too seriously.
Pilots call Crewing (or should I say TRY to , in the morning , as the one line is always engaged) to report no-shows, or otherwise (as I found out to my cost) when a CC didn't show we called her at home/ she said she would be there for departure/ we left on time/ someone loused on us to crewing/ in spite of the fact that I couldn't get through to them I had a "disciplinary" for not subsequently reporting her . . . . Nice Eh ?
Superpilot & Artie. . . just for the avoidance of doubt, I am not the author, the article is copied from your new Representation website. RYR Pilot Group
Whilst agreeing that there is a modicum of embellishment in the language used I have no disagreement with the content, which I think fairy reflects a floating ( & for a large part "based") contractors lot.
In my time @ RYR I was "fortunate" to be on a Ryanair contract, whilst many of my colleagues at that time were falling over themselves to get the big Brookie bucks , I was thinking Hmnnn there has to be a catch there somewhere 
I wasn't wrong on that score.
where is Leo these days anyhow ? vrb03kt whilst not the normal reason to be sent out of base, there is nothing to stop them doing so, and it can be used as a "reminder" that they are in charge.
Check Airman , as Depone said. . it's a UK thing
we just can't help ourself taking ourselves WAY too seriously. Pilots call Crewing (or should I say TRY to , in the morning , as the one line is always engaged) to report no-shows, or otherwise (as I found out to my cost) when a CC didn't show we called her at home/ she said she would be there for departure/ we left on time/ someone loused on us to crewing/ in spite of the fact that I couldn't get through to them I had a "disciplinary" for not subsequently reporting her . . . . Nice Eh ?
Superpilot & Artie. . . just for the avoidance of doubt, I am not the author, the article is copied from your new Representation website. RYR Pilot Group
Whilst agreeing that there is a modicum of embellishment in the language used I have no disagreement with the content, which I think fairy reflects a floating ( & for a large part "based") contractors lot.
In my time @ RYR I was "fortunate"
to be on a Ryanair contract, whilst many of my colleagues at that time were falling over themselves to get the big Brookie bucks , I was thinking Hmnnn there has to be a catch there somewhere I wasn't wrong on that score.
Last edited by captplaystation; 15th Dec 2012 at 09:45.
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I couldn't wait for the part about the "smart ass monkey with a strong polish accent". )) There's a good chance that ALL of his 12 hours long duties are at least as stressy as your day desrcibed while he's working for peanuts (most probably) and does not even remember the last time having 4 consecutive days OFF (aside of his last holiday).
Warsaw is only CAT II, btw.
Warsaw is only CAT II, btw.
Last edited by TBSC; 15th Dec 2012 at 12:34.
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Incidentally, I've come across the original text when commuting home via LTN after a 5-day "out of base" assignment. My first thought was "if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen"...
Although not without problems, I had a blast at my temporary base - flown to some new places, met nice people, had some good food and excellent wine...
Only later, after the hassle of transiting thru LTN I have found some sympathy for the author. However, most of the problems he describes seem to be specific to the UK - ie. the general unwillingness to help and anal retentive jobsworths on every corner (like: "only one piece of luggage allowed", "no coffee on the bus", "where's your id" etc.) No offence guys, but rest of Europe seems to be happier and easier to deal with
Although not without problems, I had a blast at my temporary base - flown to some new places, met nice people, had some good food and excellent wine...
Only later, after the hassle of transiting thru LTN I have found some sympathy for the author. However, most of the problems he describes seem to be specific to the UK - ie. the general unwillingness to help and anal retentive jobsworths on every corner (like: "only one piece of luggage allowed", "no coffee on the bus", "where's your id" etc.) No offence guys, but rest of Europe seems to be happier and easier to deal with
Last edited by Stuck_in_an_ATR; 15th Dec 2012 at 14:11. Reason: grammar....
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Captplaystation, for the avoidance of doubt, the link does not go to my representation website. I do not and have thankfully never worked for a certain loco, who may or may not be the subject of this thread
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This is an impending Buffalo. But what really sucks is that the thieving pikey is constantly telling the world that his pilots are the best paid in the world and that none of this stuff happens in his "professional" airline. Of course not, well as long as nobody ever knows, it never happened. And if you bully and threaten everyone who ever steps out of line, no one will ever know. Unless, of course... Many thanks to Captplaystation for starting this one.
PM
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In the papers today...
Wealthy Travellers .. who exploited vulnerable homeless drifters .. as a private workforce and kept them in squalid conditions face jail after being convicted of forcing the men to perform forced or compulsory labour.
And:
Police said: "I've seen an awful lot in my career, but I have never seen one group of human beings treat another group so badly for so long just for their financial benefit."
Oh, wait. I'm on the wrong thread....
:-)
And:
Police said: "I've seen an awful lot in my career, but I have never seen one group of human beings treat another group so badly for so long just for their financial benefit."
Oh, wait. I'm on the wrong thread....
:-)
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Saw that one too, I expect on their release they could rehabilitate themselves by seeking a career in airline management.
Striking similarities too, in that the "victims" had , in many cases ,worked for them for years, in spite of seeing all the abuses dished out to their fellow "employees".
Striking similarities too, in that the "victims" had , in many cases ,worked for them for years, in spite of seeing all the abuses dished out to their fellow "employees".