Norwegian B737 Pilot selection (Updated)
Mach 3
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Kjos nightmare of having to have one fleet of N registered 787's and one fleet of EI registered 787's just got a step closer...
Who knows whether the Coleman episode played into the hands of the opponents of NAI's application? Arguably, he has cause to be bitter doesn't he?!
Back here in the UK however, employing pilots "permanently" via third party agencies is only emasculating us further.
Back in April the RMT took a case to the ECHR, with one of its submissions being that the UK prohibition on Secondary Strike action was inconsistent with Article 11 of the ECHR.
In short the Court accepted that the right to Secondary Strike action is enshrined in Article 11(1) of the ECHR, but that the the UK's prohibition of this right because of the potential adverse effects on the rights of persons not party to the dispute 11(2) superseded this right.
In doing so, however, the Court noted that the UK's prohibition lies at one end of the spectrum with respect to this right and is regularly criticised by bodies such as the International Labour Organisation. I understand only 3 other European countries prohibit Secondary Strike action?
I understand BALPA is very much on the Norwegian case, but they/we need to bat the FR/NAS employment paradigms into the weeds once and for all.
HMRC tests as to whether typical airline contractors are or are not "employees" easily demonstrate that pilots working for these airlines (and others) should have proper contracts commensurate with their "employee" status.
Who knows whether the Coleman episode played into the hands of the opponents of NAI's application? Arguably, he has cause to be bitter doesn't he?!
Back here in the UK however, employing pilots "permanently" via third party agencies is only emasculating us further.
Back in April the RMT took a case to the ECHR, with one of its submissions being that the UK prohibition on Secondary Strike action was inconsistent with Article 11 of the ECHR.
In short the Court accepted that the right to Secondary Strike action is enshrined in Article 11(1) of the ECHR, but that the the UK's prohibition of this right because of the potential adverse effects on the rights of persons not party to the dispute 11(2) superseded this right.
In doing so, however, the Court noted that the UK's prohibition lies at one end of the spectrum with respect to this right and is regularly criticised by bodies such as the International Labour Organisation. I understand only 3 other European countries prohibit Secondary Strike action?
I understand BALPA is very much on the Norwegian case, but they/we need to bat the FR/NAS employment paradigms into the weeds once and for all.
HMRC tests as to whether typical airline contractors are or are not "employees" easily demonstrate that pilots working for these airlines (and others) should have proper contracts commensurate with their "employee" status.
Join Date: Dec 2009
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The encouraging thing lately is that most of my colleagues at LGW are speaking about the terms and conditions our very nice colleagues over the corridor at Easyjet are on.
It seems to be a benchmark for what people at LGW expect BALPA to help us achieve. I would be more than happy with that.
However, there is a lot of work for the interim company counsel/BALPA to do yet.
It seems to be a benchmark for what people at LGW expect BALPA to help us achieve. I would be more than happy with that.
However, there is a lot of work for the interim company counsel/BALPA to do yet.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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The only way NAS will align with Easy is to close the company, sack the directors and start over again,fundamentally the difference is scruples. Easy is a decent company with sympathetic rules and is prepared to be flexible at regional bases, NAS is run as a Scandi dictatorship,all that comes from the mothership is " red spin". How can BALPA negotiate terms and conditions when the majority of pilots are simply " agency workers", in other words "temporary assets". The first step, which still appears evasive ,is for a basic employment contract as " employees, not as an independent service providers. Esayjet was started with passion and has always had a family feeling, NAS was started as a people carrier with profit and cost as the benchmarks. You compare chalk and cheese I'm sorry to say.
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Avenger there is a lot going on behind the scenes that you know nothing about.
Permanent employment and union recognition is the name of the game. No arguments there. That's what we are fighting for.
I have said it once before and I will say it again. This place is a nice place to operate from on a day to day basis and it is worth fighting for.
If you think we are just about to roll over you are mistaken.
Permanent employment and union recognition is the name of the game. No arguments there. That's what we are fighting for.
I have said it once before and I will say it again. This place is a nice place to operate from on a day to day basis and it is worth fighting for.
If you think we are just about to roll over you are mistaken.
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Flaps.. "Nice" usually translate to nice colleagues, good a/c and decent roster pattern, nice crew facilities.. it does not translate to job security and sense of worth. I totally agree you should all fight for your rights, no one is suggesting you turn turtle, however, my colleagues that work for your company also were told that things were going on in the background..that has been the case for months.
What NAS management should do is put out an official bold statement regarding their intentions rather than rely on the rumour mill. And the tactic of sacking 6o guys to flex their muscles.. well come on, this is not the stone age. Are BALPA recognised in any formal negotiation sense by NAS or is the theme " if we have enough members we must be recognised?"
What NAS management should do is put out an official bold statement regarding their intentions rather than rely on the rumour mill. And the tactic of sacking 6o guys to flex their muscles.. well come on, this is not the stone age. Are BALPA recognised in any formal negotiation sense by NAS or is the theme " if we have enough members we must be recognised?"
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Avenger
I would ascribe it more to growing pains and let be honest easyJet has had its own share of them.......Lisbon springs to mind, 60 pilots weren't sacked at least not in the sense you describe it and whilst what did happen was neither professional or strictly necessary the likely outcome is that things will improve dramatically this next few months.
Norwegian is a better product from a customer perspective we just need to make sure it becomes the same from employee perspective and yes lots going on!!
Norwegian is a better product from a customer perspective we just need to make sure it becomes the same from employee perspective and yes lots going on!!
Join Date: Aug 2014
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Have you swallowed the sales manual whole LNIDA ? I am all for employees supporting their company but…… this bunch ? Really ? Better customer proposition - do they get two seats ? A massage after take off ? As stated earlier in this thread, EZY and Monarch were borne out of passion and this is a far better starting point for success than a drive for market domination based on price alone. And no, I am not a EZY pilot.
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Jax: No I would suspect your a Monarch pilot that is eager to join the ranks at Ezy as a DEC because it isn't so rosy at MON anymore? LNIDA was just saying that the product down the back is better than that of Easy and indeed FR or Monarch. And he's right. It is vastly better. However, it doesn't mean that it's a better company to work for than Monarch or Easy in relation to terms and conditions. But that's a work in progress. Avenger: All points taken and I agree with what you say. Just to reiterate what my colleague LNIDA has said, no one was sacked. It was forced leave. Inexcusable still.
As I said there is an unimaginable amount going on across the network (even as I'm writing this post right now) behind the scenes via SEPLA and BALPA.
It would not be appropriate for me to comment any further on it, but this is far from over.
As I said there is an unimaginable amount going on across the network (even as I'm writing this post right now) behind the scenes via SEPLA and BALPA.
It would not be appropriate for me to comment any further on it, but this is far from over.
Last edited by go around flaps15; 12th Dec 2014 at 23:19.
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Thinking of joining Norwegian?
This may be of interest to you before you make up your mind;
Dear Pilots,
We have spoken and mailed with very many of you regarding your concern over the contract offer from OSM and the threatening tone when you have communicated that you are reluctant to sign yet. The agreement was that if you don’t belong to the 1st or 2nd group, you could choose to stay with your agency until our (Xxxxxx) contract with Norwegian runs out in mid 2015. We have several times received confirmation from Norwegian/NAR on this issue and we have received feedback from some of you who have contacted Norwegian, and in most cases, Norwegian have responded that it is perfectly OK to await the change to OSM until end of June 2015.
However, some of you who have received the offer to change to OSM 01.01.15 – which was recently changed to 01.02.15 due to your notice period with your present employer (termination notice required)– and who don’t want to change yet, feel insecure due to the miscommunication, threats and deviation from the initial information sent to you all.
As your employer, we have done our best to keep you informed in these challenging times for you, understanding that this concerns your career and livelihood, but this is not easy when the game rules change as we go along and a variety of information coming from all possible angles.
Since the deadline from OSM is approaching soon, we have asked NAR for a firm and final answer as to what exactly are the conditions regarding the future for the pilots with Norwegian if they choose to stay with us for a while longer. Please see below the answer we received:
”De piloter som har fått ett erbjudande men vars kontrakt med er inte löpt ut ännu kan välja att stanna hos er eller acceptera erbjudandet de fått med startdatum 1 februari. Väljer de att tacka nej till erbjudandet de fått nu och stanna hos er så kan vi inte garantera att de får ett nytt erbjudande i juni men förhoppningsvis så har vi behov av dem då. Som ni vet said har vi ett väldigt stort överskott av piloter just nu varför vi har permitterat ett stort antal piloter under vintern. Behovskalkylerna för april och framöver är inte klara ännu så därför kan vi inte ge några garantier som piloten nedan vill ha.
Mvh
Krister”
TRANSLATION into English:
“Those pilots who have received an offer but whose contract with you has not expired yet, may choose to stay with you or accept the offer they received with the start date February 1st. If they choose to decline the offer they received now and stay with you, we cannot guarantee that they get a new offer in June, but hopefully we have need for them then. As you know, we have a very large surplus of pilots right now which is why we have laid off a large number of pilots during the winter. Estimates for April and the future is not clear yet so therefore we can give no assurance that the pilot want.
Brgds
Krister”
You are more than welcome to stay with Xxxxxxx until our contract with Norwegian runs out, but you need to know that Norwegian may take that as an opportunity to adjust their number of pilots. We would also like to emphasize that theoretically, it is only the pilots who have been with us for more than 12 months who have received an offer from OSM for the time being. The rest of you will receive an offer to sign with OSM when your 12 months is up. This has to do with our original agreement with NAR.
We remain at your full disposal.
Best regards from all of us at Xxxxxx
Dear Pilots,
We have spoken and mailed with very many of you regarding your concern over the contract offer from OSM and the threatening tone when you have communicated that you are reluctant to sign yet. The agreement was that if you don’t belong to the 1st or 2nd group, you could choose to stay with your agency until our (Xxxxxx) contract with Norwegian runs out in mid 2015. We have several times received confirmation from Norwegian/NAR on this issue and we have received feedback from some of you who have contacted Norwegian, and in most cases, Norwegian have responded that it is perfectly OK to await the change to OSM until end of June 2015.
However, some of you who have received the offer to change to OSM 01.01.15 – which was recently changed to 01.02.15 due to your notice period with your present employer (termination notice required)– and who don’t want to change yet, feel insecure due to the miscommunication, threats and deviation from the initial information sent to you all.
As your employer, we have done our best to keep you informed in these challenging times for you, understanding that this concerns your career and livelihood, but this is not easy when the game rules change as we go along and a variety of information coming from all possible angles.
Since the deadline from OSM is approaching soon, we have asked NAR for a firm and final answer as to what exactly are the conditions regarding the future for the pilots with Norwegian if they choose to stay with us for a while longer. Please see below the answer we received:
”De piloter som har fått ett erbjudande men vars kontrakt med er inte löpt ut ännu kan välja att stanna hos er eller acceptera erbjudandet de fått med startdatum 1 februari. Väljer de att tacka nej till erbjudandet de fått nu och stanna hos er så kan vi inte garantera att de får ett nytt erbjudande i juni men förhoppningsvis så har vi behov av dem då. Som ni vet said har vi ett väldigt stort överskott av piloter just nu varför vi har permitterat ett stort antal piloter under vintern. Behovskalkylerna för april och framöver är inte klara ännu så därför kan vi inte ge några garantier som piloten nedan vill ha.
Mvh
Krister”
TRANSLATION into English:
“Those pilots who have received an offer but whose contract with you has not expired yet, may choose to stay with you or accept the offer they received with the start date February 1st. If they choose to decline the offer they received now and stay with you, we cannot guarantee that they get a new offer in June, but hopefully we have need for them then. As you know, we have a very large surplus of pilots right now which is why we have laid off a large number of pilots during the winter. Estimates for April and the future is not clear yet so therefore we can give no assurance that the pilot want.
Brgds
Krister”
You are more than welcome to stay with Xxxxxxx until our contract with Norwegian runs out, but you need to know that Norwegian may take that as an opportunity to adjust their number of pilots. We would also like to emphasize that theoretically, it is only the pilots who have been with us for more than 12 months who have received an offer from OSM for the time being. The rest of you will receive an offer to sign with OSM when your 12 months is up. This has to do with our original agreement with NAR.
We remain at your full disposal.
Best regards from all of us at Xxxxxx
Join Date: Jan 2015
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News
Guys any recent news regarding conditions and salary for newjoiners?
Thank you for any info.
I would appreciate: How much netto can you expect to get monthly in spanish base(TFS, LPA, AGP) at 80hours/month?
Thank you very much.
Thank you for any info.
I would appreciate: How much netto can you expect to get monthly in spanish base(TFS, LPA, AGP) at 80hours/month?
Thank you very much.
