Norwegian B737 Pilot selection (Updated)
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I am curious whether those of you posting above about going for selection at Norwegian really are serious about joining this company? Surely you have read about the guys getting royally shafted for the winter?
Will you be asking the question at interview whether you can expect the same treatment next year? Will you accept the 'it should not happen again' answer that will no doubt be given? With very little fleet expansion next year I know what I would bet on. Expect the winter off unpaid.
Ok, I know it's a shaky contract with no private medical, no pension but now you can expect a 25% reduction in pay to boot. Do you really honestly consider this a sensible career move now? I only started with Norwegian in the middle of this year and believe me, I have made a huge mistake. I am definitely regretting leaving my previous employer. I was naive enough to take Norwegian at their word and to trust what they said. I would never have accepted a summer only contract and the cost and disruption of relocating my family for this was definitely not worth it. I took a chance that a 2 year contract would lead to more - it didn't pay off. I wasn't expecting to get stitched up after only a few months. I only have myself to blame.
I imagine this move to lay pilots off over the winter will greatly stem the flow of applicants in the future - and so it should, especially those from Ryan where it's now perhaps a case of better the devil you know than the devil you don't. Don't take the risk.
Will you be asking the question at interview whether you can expect the same treatment next year? Will you accept the 'it should not happen again' answer that will no doubt be given? With very little fleet expansion next year I know what I would bet on. Expect the winter off unpaid.
Ok, I know it's a shaky contract with no private medical, no pension but now you can expect a 25% reduction in pay to boot. Do you really honestly consider this a sensible career move now? I only started with Norwegian in the middle of this year and believe me, I have made a huge mistake. I am definitely regretting leaving my previous employer. I was naive enough to take Norwegian at their word and to trust what they said. I would never have accepted a summer only contract and the cost and disruption of relocating my family for this was definitely not worth it. I took a chance that a 2 year contract would lead to more - it didn't pay off. I wasn't expecting to get stitched up after only a few months. I only have myself to blame.
I imagine this move to lay pilots off over the winter will greatly stem the flow of applicants in the future - and so it should, especially those from Ryan where it's now perhaps a case of better the devil you know than the devil you don't. Don't take the risk.
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I am curious whether those of you posting above about going for selection at Norwegian really are serious about joining this company? Surely you have read about the guys getting royally shafted for the winter?
They have the proof and have seen that hundreds of hours spent flying small aircraft doesn’t put them in a better position with airlines but a worse one, as countless other eager new pilots will have bitten the cherry before they ever do.
As always, it’s about Supply vs. Demand. The job has sold out to the lowest bidder willing to settle for the worst possible contract just to “get a go”.
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Norwegian B737 Pilot selection (Updated)
I'm not current NAS- however I'm ex-FR and looking to go back. Just reading the recent thread here and noticed that guys HAVE been given bases etc. I believe there's a hold pool and people are in that. There is a separate threat discussing this... However I don't believe any ex-FR or anyone in this holding pool has been given a start date as yet! So I've heard!
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Many employers quite rightly take the view that if you leave once, you'll likely do so again and will not reemploy. It also sends out a message to other employee's to think long and hard before jumping ship, the counter point is that by having someone back into the fold they can act as positive influence over others, whilst this counter point may have been true once, the internet age and sites such as this means no one should be joining any company without knowing what there getting into, hence the shock & awe at Norwegians ham fisted handling of its winter crewing levels, an event that will likely impact it well into next year given that on top of this they are changing the agency structure.
Meanwhile Jet2 continue in the same HR haze of interviewing/sim-in/offering employment futures with no start date and Ryanair snap up the 'hold' folk that are worth having (i know of personally of 4 now) and a number of Jet2 Captains have recently been interview by Ryanair, the main complaint being roster disruption and the near impossibility of a commute home, something that FR are now actively addressing ahead of next Summer.
Given the fiasco at Norwegian i suspect the steady flow of people they have had from Ryanair will dry up and they like Jet2 will be short of Captains going into the Summer.
Meanwhile Jet2 continue in the same HR haze of interviewing/sim-in/offering employment futures with no start date and Ryanair snap up the 'hold' folk that are worth having (i know of personally of 4 now) and a number of Jet2 Captains have recently been interview by Ryanair, the main complaint being roster disruption and the near impossibility of a commute home, something that FR are now actively addressing ahead of next Summer.
Given the fiasco at Norwegian i suspect the steady flow of people they have had from Ryanair will dry up and they like Jet2 will be short of Captains going into the Summer.
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Norwegian B737 Pilot selection (Updated)
@facelook- Yes I do agree with your point about not taking on ex-employees. I do believe a select few can return to a company and make a positive input and potentially stay long term. Myself being an FO who has no interest in the ME or Asia would plan to see out my command and stay in FR for to foreseeable future. I don't think in the LCC world anyone can say "for good" as a lot can change very quickly. As the last decade in aviation has shown!
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I had to put my tablet down, stand up , go into my kitchen, get a glass of water, go back to my lounge, sit down, take a drink, pick up my tablet, read that again all so I could spit out the water in disgust. I want to say surely no one will be that desperate, but I know they will.
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What?
Paying for a 37 rating yourself with the outlook of a 3-month contract?!?
Come on... this is ridiculous! Even if you could expect to earn a decent figure - which isn't the case at all - this would be cr...p and nonsense! Given the facts and figures written in this thread about the company it's more like a joke! Others are complaining about being sacked after summer... with this contract it's like they don't even have to sack you and you know it all before!
Please do not screw yourselves, guys! Nobody should be that desperate! Better leave the industry or don't get even started like this... you will never see the end of it - financially ruined! Whatever you think you will be having with being a pilot, it's not worth it... trust me! If you wanna waste your money or money isn't a factor, spend it elsewhere, that's better!
Keep hoping, but don't fall for it!
Come on... this is ridiculous! Even if you could expect to earn a decent figure - which isn't the case at all - this would be cr...p and nonsense! Given the facts and figures written in this thread about the company it's more like a joke! Others are complaining about being sacked after summer... with this contract it's like they don't even have to sack you and you know it all before!
Please do not screw yourselves, guys! Nobody should be that desperate! Better leave the industry or don't get even started like this... you will never see the end of it - financially ruined! Whatever you think you will be having with being a pilot, it's not worth it... trust me! If you wanna waste your money or money isn't a factor, spend it elsewhere, that's better!
Keep hoping, but don't fall for it!
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3 month contract ? WTF ? ?
If you really think that 300hrs (absolute max) on a 737 will even get you looked at anywhere else you would remotely wish to work , well
Unfortunately, Yes, they will be flooded with applicants. . . . ambition/blind optimism usually triumphs over common sense.
Well, that is a new low we have sunk to, I always found slightly distasteful the Air Baltic "6mths if you are lucky" offer, & we won't even speak about Lion Air /Eagle Jet, but at least you had time to acquire more experience.
Many (including me ) criticise them, however, when asked , if you must do SSTR I always recommend Ryanair, as, at least, the contract (even if not spectacular ) is ongoing.
This "offer" of 3months quite frankly makes me ashamed to admit to working for NAS.
Oh, it would be wise (given the events of this Autumn) if you are nonetheless "tempted", to refrain from believing any or all half promises you may be given in reference to future employment, they want your money, and then they want the money from the next round of mugs, that is all.
If you really think that 300hrs (absolute max) on a 737 will even get you looked at anywhere else you would remotely wish to work , well
Unfortunately, Yes, they will be flooded with applicants. . . . ambition/blind optimism usually triumphs over common sense.
Well, that is a new low we have sunk to, I always found slightly distasteful the Air Baltic "6mths if you are lucky" offer, & we won't even speak about Lion Air /Eagle Jet, but at least you had time to acquire more experience.
Many (including me ) criticise them, however, when asked , if you must do SSTR I always recommend Ryanair, as, at least, the contract (even if not spectacular ) is ongoing.
This "offer" of 3months quite frankly makes me ashamed to admit to working for NAS.
Oh, it would be wise (given the events of this Autumn) if you are nonetheless "tempted", to refrain from believing any or all half promises you may be given in reference to future employment, they want your money, and then they want the money from the next round of mugs, that is all.
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RTO
It will probably not surprise anyone that there is another side to this story.
This is one very bitter individual!!
During the establishment of Norwegian Long haul and well before the Dreamliner was delivered, Norwegian had one B738 on NLH AOC. To properly comply with AOC requirement all pilots had to complete a very simple CBT on the personel structure of NLH (it took 10 minutes to complete) this was so this single aircraft on the NLH AOC could be flown by crew on NAN/NAS AOC. I cannot recall any promises or benefits being offered, it was a paper work exercise to ensure compliance.
NLH have never operated long haul flights from Finland unless you count LPA/TFS
It would be inappropriate for me to comment on Capt Colman's comments, but these are not reflected by 99.9% of Captains working for or on behalf of Norwegian.
To my knowledge there has only been a couple of instances where a contract pilots contract has been terminated.
Square peg round hole best sums it up.
This is one very bitter individual!!
During the establishment of Norwegian Long haul and well before the Dreamliner was delivered, Norwegian had one B738 on NLH AOC. To properly comply with AOC requirement all pilots had to complete a very simple CBT on the personel structure of NLH (it took 10 minutes to complete) this was so this single aircraft on the NLH AOC could be flown by crew on NAN/NAS AOC. I cannot recall any promises or benefits being offered, it was a paper work exercise to ensure compliance.
NLH have never operated long haul flights from Finland unless you count LPA/TFS
It would be inappropriate for me to comment on Capt Colman's comments, but these are not reflected by 99.9% of Captains working for or on behalf of Norwegian.
To my knowledge there has only been a couple of instances where a contract pilots contract has been terminated.
Square peg round hole best sums it up.
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LNIDA, you might argue that NAS do not abuse staff on contracts and I tend to agree. However the real point I interpret from the letter is a complaint about the employment model. There is truth and evidence in the industry that in-direct employment can lead to diminished rights for employees and a reduction in the reporting by those employees.
In my opinion there is no good reason (for us) why NAS would want their permanent Pilots one, two or three steps removed from them. Easyjet don't need these extraordinary permanent employment models so why should we?
Again I agree, NAS, at this moment in time, do not tend to abuse the diminished rights of agency pilots, but NAS is evolving and a day may come in the future when we wished we hadn't have given up our demands for direct employment.
LNIDA you seem to hold an exceptionally positive view of the company on this forum. I really do hope your positivity is proven correct over the next 12 months.
Fancy defending the self sponsored 737 rating and 3 month contract? 
Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA Pilots - FIRST OFFICERS NON TYPERATED B737 ? 3 MONTHS SUMMER CONTRACT
In my opinion there is no good reason (for us) why NAS would want their permanent Pilots one, two or three steps removed from them. Easyjet don't need these extraordinary permanent employment models so why should we?
Again I agree, NAS, at this moment in time, do not tend to abuse the diminished rights of agency pilots, but NAS is evolving and a day may come in the future when we wished we hadn't have given up our demands for direct employment.
LNIDA you seem to hold an exceptionally positive view of the company on this forum. I really do hope your positivity is proven correct over the next 12 months.
Fancy defending the self sponsored 737 rating and 3 month contract? Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA Pilots - FIRST OFFICERS NON TYPERATED B737 ? 3 MONTHS SUMMER CONTRACT
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Nope don't intend to defend the indefensible.
I think NAS are moving in the direction with regard to employment but they have gone about it in a cack handed way, as reflected in the internal flight safety bulletin.
My observation is that OSM are 'just' replacing the current 3 agencies, the contract is the same apart from 3 month notice & being permeant
Just how many of the 3 month-er's will end up working only 3 months after line release remains to be seen, i note also that the current NTR course have now had their terms and conditions improved dramatically, but they were piss poor before.
Going back to Capt Colman he joined as a contract pilot and yes some feel less secure and this may make them less likely to report on flight safety issues, that is human nature, but not company policy, many ex UK pilots have raised their eyebrows at what was allowed under UK CAA rules and what is allowed under Norway rules, it matters not now because all fall within EASA rules.
I have no rose tinted glasses where NAS/NAN/NAI are concerned, but the overwhelming vast majority of pilots i fly with are more than satisfied with both the deal and the way that they are treated by NAS, communication over contract matters aside.
Outside of LGW & Core you'll not earn more for working so little, standby duties are seldom called maybe 1 -20 call out to duty and 1 -40 on the day
On balance if your happy with your base i still think its ahead of Ryanair and Jet2 but behind easyJet
I think NAS are moving in the direction with regard to employment but they have gone about it in a cack handed way, as reflected in the internal flight safety bulletin.
My observation is that OSM are 'just' replacing the current 3 agencies, the contract is the same apart from 3 month notice & being permeant
Just how many of the 3 month-er's will end up working only 3 months after line release remains to be seen, i note also that the current NTR course have now had their terms and conditions improved dramatically, but they were piss poor before.
Going back to Capt Colman he joined as a contract pilot and yes some feel less secure and this may make them less likely to report on flight safety issues, that is human nature, but not company policy, many ex UK pilots have raised their eyebrows at what was allowed under UK CAA rules and what is allowed under Norway rules, it matters not now because all fall within EASA rules.
I have no rose tinted glasses where NAS/NAN/NAI are concerned, but the overwhelming vast majority of pilots i fly with are more than satisfied with both the deal and the way that they are treated by NAS, communication over contract matters aside.
Outside of LGW & Core you'll not earn more for working so little, standby duties are seldom called maybe 1 -20 call out to duty and 1 -40 on the day
On balance if your happy with your base i still think its ahead of Ryanair and Jet2 but behind easyJet
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Most people who got invited were actually not unemployed.... so you think people will quit their jobs, do this contract and stay unemployed for 9 months and hope for a new contract in 2016? Or this will start all over again.