Norwegian B737 Pilot selection (Updated)
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Sadly, this is not fake news. It's all true and also communicated from the company just like this.
The removal of the crew meals and other factors relating to the hotel accommodation is however related to the 737.
The pay cuts however aren't.
The options regarding the pay cuts are apparently:
1: 7% FD / 4% CC
2: 5,8% FD&CC
Nothing is decided there yet however.
Shema Y'Israel.... or what should I say.
The removal of the crew meals and other factors relating to the hotel accommodation is however related to the 737.
The pay cuts however aren't.
The options regarding the pay cuts are apparently:
1: 7% FD / 4% CC
2: 5,8% FD&CC
Nothing is decided there yet however.
Shema Y'Israel.... or what should I say.
Weeeeeeell, according to the NPU - Union for the old "core" i.e. Scandinavia, which will now become the main focus again, as we were making money as other AOCs were loosing it; It was all suggestions, not demands. As such, they will not be accepted either, as we have our agreements.
I feel whole-heartedly for my european colleagues, hope that most will be able to accept a transfer to Scandi or the LH-division.
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According BALPA the company is "contemplating" some of these measures. None of the other EURO or SCAN unions have reported this, nor would they ever accept it under any circumstances.
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Well by the sounds of it Norwegian needs to make these cuts to survive.
Don't except it, or come to a compromise then perhaps you may need to seek alternate employment.
And nobody would want that, Norwegian has excellent guys and girls working for them, and I wish them all the best and hope they come through this stronger
Don't except it, or come to a compromise then perhaps you may need to seek alternate employment.
And nobody would want that, Norwegian has excellent guys and girls working for them, and I wish them all the best and hope they come through this stronger
Last edited by Speedbrakes Up; 18th Jan 2019 at 07:16. Reason: Spelling
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Weeeeeeell, according to the NPU - Union for the old "core" i.e. Scandinavia, which will now become the main focus again, as we were making money as other AOCs were loosing it; It was all suggestions, not demands. As such, they will not be accepted either, as we have our agreements.
I feel whole-heartedly for my european colleagues, hope that most will be able to accept a transfer to Scandi or the LH-division.
I feel whole-heartedly for my european colleagues, hope that most will be able to accept a transfer to Scandi or the LH-division.
The big problem is OSL HQ and their inability to change the status quo from when they were a small domestic carrier. They are making the whole airline go down. Give full separation to the AOCs and 3/4 of the problems will disappear in a few months.
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And in keeping with the nonsensical decisions it appears they’re now doubling down on Long Haul (the not at all flawed business model of charging people £170 to fly a brand new 787 10h+ Legs) at the expense of what actually made money for them in the past.
Shades of Monarch when they got out of charters to bet the farm on being a small player on short haul versus RYR and EZY.
Shades of Monarch when they got out of charters to bet the farm on being a small player on short haul versus RYR and EZY.
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And in keeping with the nonsensical decisions it appears they’re now doubling down on Long Haul (the not at all flawed business model of charging people £170 to fly a brand new 787 10h+ Legs) at the expense of what actually made money for them in the past.
Shades of Monarch when they got out of charters to bet the farm on being a small player on short haul versus RYR and EZY.
Shades of Monarch when they got out of charters to bet the farm on being a small player on short haul versus RYR and EZY.
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Totally agree. Closing a few bases/crew rooms isn’t gonna save €200m, otherwise Ryanair would make a fortune with their 92 bases!
Streamlining for a final IAG offer.. or Lufthansa or Qatar, seems more plausible.
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Seriously, what are you talking about? I think you’re living in some sort of fantasy land.
Firstly, IF (and its a big if) an offer is made it will be IAG making it, not BA. Huge difference. IAG have already made an offer and Norwegian’s owners turned it down because it wasn’t high enough. Are you seriously suggesting that these base closures etc. are somehow going to make IAG offer more for what is effectively a dead duck?! If another offer is forthcoming, I’d imagine it would be peanuts compared to what came before.
The reality is that the business model has never been sustainable and in all likelihood this is the beginning of the end. It’s always only been a matter of time until the chickens came home to roost. Norwegian’s expansion has always come across to me as a huge vanity project for its owners, who can’t accept that they haven’t magically unlocked a special way of doing things that would make it work for them, where so many others have failed.
Firstly, IF (and its a big if) an offer is made it will be IAG making it, not BA. Huge difference. IAG have already made an offer and Norwegian’s owners turned it down because it wasn’t high enough. Are you seriously suggesting that these base closures etc. are somehow going to make IAG offer more for what is effectively a dead duck?! If another offer is forthcoming, I’d imagine it would be peanuts compared to what came before.
The reality is that the business model has never been sustainable and in all likelihood this is the beginning of the end. It’s always only been a matter of time until the chickens came home to roost. Norwegian’s expansion has always come across to me as a huge vanity project for its owners, who can’t accept that they haven’t magically unlocked a special way of doing things that would make it work for them, where so many others have failed.
Last edited by DuctOvht; 20th Jan 2019 at 17:35.
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I am not so sure. The expansion was a race to get the economies of scale required to be able to compete. The days where small low cost airlines could compete are long gone so they HAD to grow or disappear. I would not read too much into the Low Cost long haul. I have used it and is not specially low cost. The low cost tag drives a lot of business to their website so is probably just a clever marketing ploy . Having said that they did try to expand into way too many new markets way too fast and launching a long haul airline is phenomenally expensive. Norwegians have big pockets and a large airline is a good hedge against a large oil company, what people fail to realise is that the Airbus order was to run an aircraft lease business -not to operate- you don't even think of an aircraft lease business without some serious financial backing . I think the CEO is no fool, he has followed a very high risk strategy which may or may not pay off but it has been a conscious decision.
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Seriously, what are you talking about? I think you’re living in some sort of fantasy land.
Firstly, IF (and its a big if) an offer is made it will be IAG making it, not BA. Huge difference. IAG have already made an offer and Norwegian’s owners turned it down because it wasn’t high enough. Are you seriously suggesting that these base closures etc. are somehow going to make IAG offer more for what is effectively a dead duck?! If another offer is forthcoming, I’d imagine it would be peanuts compared to what came before.
The reality is that the business model has never been sustainable and in all likelihood this is the beginning of the end. It’s always only been a matter of time until the chickens came home to roost. Norwegian’s expansion has always come across to me as a huge vanity project for its owners, who can’t accept that they haven’t magically unlocked a special way of doing things that would make it work for them, where so many others have failed.
Firstly, IF (and its a big if) an offer is made it will be IAG making it, not BA. Huge difference. IAG have already made an offer and Norwegian’s owners turned it down because it wasn’t high enough. Are you seriously suggesting that these base closures etc. are somehow going to make IAG offer more for what is effectively a dead duck?! If another offer is forthcoming, I’d imagine it would be peanuts compared to what came before.
The reality is that the business model has never been sustainable and in all likelihood this is the beginning of the end. It’s always only been a matter of time until the chickens came home to roost. Norwegian’s expansion has always come across to me as a huge vanity project for its owners, who can’t accept that they haven’t magically unlocked a special way of doing things that would make it work for them, where so many others have failed.
First of all IAG bought roughly 5% of stock of Norwegian. This allowed them to have a look at the books. Also since the stock price went up, Norwegians worth grew. A possible take-over of Lufthansa/Eurowings was therefore too expensive. If IAG wants to buy Norwegian, they'd probably aim for the Longhaul fleet. They wouldn't want Norwegian compete with Vueling, Iberia and Air Lingus in the short haul segment. Also most likely that wouldn't be allowed by the European Union as IAG would own large parts of the market then. On the other hand they'd have a good position against Lufthansa and Airfrance/KLM. On the other hand Norwegian would be interesting for Lufthansa/Eurowings. With a take-over they'd expand the network significantly throughout Europe. So tell me again I am living in a fantasy land. I am not saying it will happen. From my personal perspective it looks like that will happen, since Norwegian closed the spanish bases and also FCO.
Of course in the end it can turn out very differently. But I fail to see where closing short haul bases that (according to many people) were making money, saves Norwegian the desired amount of money.
Also before you act like you know everything better. Buying an airline isn't just about the business model, it's also about aircraft, crew, passengers and slots.
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Seriously, what are you talking about? I think you’re living in some sort of fantasy land.
Firstly, IF (and its a big if) an offer is made it will be IAG making it, not BA. Huge difference. IAG have already made an offer and Norwegian’s owners turned it down because it wasn’t high enough. Are you seriously suggesting that these base closures etc. are somehow going to make IAG offer more for what is effectively a dead duck?! If another offer is forthcoming, I’d imagine it would be peanuts compared to what came before.
The reality is that the business model has never been sustainable and in all likelihood this is the beginning of the end. It’s always only been a matter of time until the chickens came home to roost. Norwegian’s expansion has always come across to me as a huge vanity project for its owners, who can’t accept that they haven’t magically unlocked a special way of doing things that would make it work for them, where so many others have failed.
Firstly, IF (and its a big if) an offer is made it will be IAG making it, not BA. Huge difference. IAG have already made an offer and Norwegian’s owners turned it down because it wasn’t high enough. Are you seriously suggesting that these base closures etc. are somehow going to make IAG offer more for what is effectively a dead duck?! If another offer is forthcoming, I’d imagine it would be peanuts compared to what came before.
The reality is that the business model has never been sustainable and in all likelihood this is the beginning of the end. It’s always only been a matter of time until the chickens came home to roost. Norwegian’s expansion has always come across to me as a huge vanity project for its owners, who can’t accept that they haven’t magically unlocked a special way of doing things that would make it work for them, where so many others have failed.
In any acquisition, you are looking at the assets but much, much more importantly the future value and yield of the investment. The business idea and current product is highly sought after, pax and investors alike. Lufthansa has confirmed interest this summer, and latest news suggest them buying a "listening post" of the shares. I would also look very closely towards Ryanair and MOL in the coming weeks. IAG is defiantly not alone...
Also many posters in here forget the fact that Ryanair and EasyJet only grew truly profitable once they reached their cricital mass. It takes time and it costs money, Norwegian is not there yet and might not need to be in the SH market. Once the LH low-cost is settled in the market, it will be a cash cow.
Regarding the base closures, some things work, some things don't. I truly feel sad for the crew down there, but if you take the CC, most would be able to work 50 percent work pattern out of Oslo and still make the same they did working 100 percent in LPA, TFS, PMI
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I don’t think you understand the way IAG works. I don’t think any of us fully do, but if you think they’ll come charging over the horizon to make everything alright for Norweigian’s employees you’re very much mistaken.
Regarding your last point, the business model doesn’t work so is largely irrelevant. The 737’s are the wrong aircraft type and have no synergy with any IAG airline, with all the crews having the wrong rating. Expensive to rectify. The slots, why pay for them when they’ll likely be on the open market in a few months? Critically though, you forgot to include that any purchase includes the massive debt & future liabilities.
When I said you’re living in a fantasy world, it was in regard to the notion that the closure of a few bases is somehow going to mean IAG will make another offer. IAG have so much money right now that buying 5% of the shares could easily have been a rounding error in the books. They took a look, made an offer and when it was rejected walked away and didn’t come back. I’ve no doubt that should they wish, they could buy it 10 times over and not bat an eyelid. That’s not a good thing, but a sad fact.
More worryingly for Norweigian, I don’t see anyone else falling over themselves to make an offer. Confirmations of interest mean absolutely nothing. I would also not put much truck on anything Lufthansa have to say...ask any ex-bmi employee about that. It looks like the only assets worth having are the 787’s...if there was anything else, there would be a bun fight for it. There isn’t.
Much of it is my opinion, but opinions formed around the assessment of plenty of others, both within the industry, and outside commentators. That said, I’m out. Clearly I won’t change your mind and nor am I trying to...only time will tell which of us is right.
Regarding your last point, the business model doesn’t work so is largely irrelevant. The 737’s are the wrong aircraft type and have no synergy with any IAG airline, with all the crews having the wrong rating. Expensive to rectify. The slots, why pay for them when they’ll likely be on the open market in a few months? Critically though, you forgot to include that any purchase includes the massive debt & future liabilities.
When I said you’re living in a fantasy world, it was in regard to the notion that the closure of a few bases is somehow going to mean IAG will make another offer. IAG have so much money right now that buying 5% of the shares could easily have been a rounding error in the books. They took a look, made an offer and when it was rejected walked away and didn’t come back. I’ve no doubt that should they wish, they could buy it 10 times over and not bat an eyelid. That’s not a good thing, but a sad fact.
More worryingly for Norweigian, I don’t see anyone else falling over themselves to make an offer. Confirmations of interest mean absolutely nothing. I would also not put much truck on anything Lufthansa have to say...ask any ex-bmi employee about that. It looks like the only assets worth having are the 787’s...if there was anything else, there would be a bun fight for it. There isn’t.
Much of it is my opinion, but opinions formed around the assessment of plenty of others, both within the industry, and outside commentators. That said, I’m out. Clearly I won’t change your mind and nor am I trying to...only time will tell which of us is right.
Last edited by DuctOvht; 20th Jan 2019 at 20:26.
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Could this recent base closures be designed to make an offer more acceptable to a prospective buyer in terms of EU competition law?
Or even, trim the company to "form fits" for whomever is taking it on? Saves liabilities for the new owner to take on then have to pay out settlements.
Or even, trim the company to "form fits" for whomever is taking it on? Saves liabilities for the new owner to take on then have to pay out settlements.
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From rte.ie :
In relation to the future of Norwegian Airlines in which IAG has bought a 4.6% stake, Mr Walsh said his group remains interested in buying the low cost carrier, but would not engage in a bidding war.
He said Norwegian is a good brand, has an interesting network and while it is struggling financially today it is not beyond people to resolve that.
"That means Norwegian will be a different Norwegian than it is," he said.
"It could be part of another group or they will downsize, so I don't buy into the idea that Norwegian disappears. I think Norwegian in some form will continue."
He said IAG, which already owns Iberia, Aer Lingus, British Airways and others, has taken a view and expressed an interest in Norwegian because it wants to expand into that market.
In relation to the future of Norwegian Airlines in which IAG has bought a 4.6% stake, Mr Walsh said his group remains interested in buying the low cost carrier, but would not engage in a bidding war.
He said Norwegian is a good brand, has an interesting network and while it is struggling financially today it is not beyond people to resolve that.
"That means Norwegian will be a different Norwegian than it is," he said.
"It could be part of another group or they will downsize, so I don't buy into the idea that Norwegian disappears. I think Norwegian in some form will continue."
He said IAG, which already owns Iberia, Aer Lingus, British Airways and others, has taken a view and expressed an interest in Norwegian because it wants to expand into that market.
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It looks exactly like that. Now iberia express opened vacancy for cabin crew in PMI, LPA and TFS. They do not have bases there and vacancy came up the day after norwegian announced 3 base closures in Spain...
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Base closures does not mean the routes are being closed, but just being flown from somewhere else.
Many of those routes was flown from a base in the north before being “turned around”.
In the guessing game IAG vs. Lufthansa maybe taking Norwegian over, Lufthansa will probably be the better option.
Many of those routes was flown from a base in the north before being “turned around”.
In the guessing game IAG vs. Lufthansa maybe taking Norwegian over, Lufthansa will probably be the better option.