Ryanair Pay v's Costs for Cadets

[Mr Boombastick]

Hi,

I'm trying to find out a breakdown of pay v's costs for new starters at Ryanair....

I know cadets are required to pay for security passes, uniform etc etc but how much does this all actually cost?

I would also like to know what the starting wage is whilst on line training? And what it rises to after the 500 hrs?
I have read so many different accounts and would be very interested to hear from someone who has recently been through it and actually knows as opposed to a bitter and twisted trol who has nothing positive to add!

There was a really interesting post made by a guy which gave his full breakdown of costs over his first year, this was quite old though and I am aware things have declined a bit since then.

I'd really appriciate it if we could just keep this on topic! I have read the vast majority of the slagging about the company, please just don't bother if you haven't got anything positive to contribute although I'm not holding my breath!!

Please feel free to PM me with details if you would rather.

Many Thanks

[shaun ryder]

Do new starters get paid by ryanair?

I always thought it was the other way around?

[16024]

Hmm...
That didn't take long did it?!
Been there, done it.
Don't do it.
Just some friendly advice from a better place.

[dannyalliga]

I'm trying to find out a breakdown of pay v's costs for new starters at Ryanair....

First of all: new starters MUST pay social security in the country where they are assigned to base according to the new EU law : EUROPA - PRESS RELEASES - Press Release - Social security: improved and simplified rules for aircrew and cross-border self-employed workers
Therefore a breakdown should be made according to where Ryanair will decide for you to be based and that is decided after your line traing if successful; bear in minf that social contributions vary greatly between different countries.

During your line training you only start getting paid after safety pilot release so up to then you will have paid well over 30.000€ between type rating, hotels and food.
Once you start getting paid you can deduct the TR cost monthly from your LTD (they will have you become a LTD director in Ireland), before you reach 500 hours you will be making between 2 and 3000€ average but again, this was before the new EU rule and is always dependent on how many hours you fly and lately there are way too many F/Os and 1 flying day out of 5 working isn't unusual. I hear of many F/Os flying barely 40 hours lately.
After the 500 hour mark you can expect to make between 3 and 4.5k depending on hours flown but bear in mind that these numbers include TR deductions and Irish social security so a new breakdown would have to take into account much higher SS and a 1k cut after your TR has been fully deducted (approximately 1.5 years after start of line training).

All in all a damn pathetic deal if you consider paying for uniform, car park, food, drinks, renting a place at base,own loss of licence, own pension scheme, own hotels for out of base and sim training etc.

[MaxReheat]

.........and people actually sign up to this?

[Mr Boombastick]

Thanks very much Dannyalliga, an interesting read.

Any ideas how long it takes for safety pilot release, or is this on an individual basis?

I know it's not fantastic but there's no taking away from the fact that after a few years (perhaps more now with reduced hours), you will have an unfrozen licence and some good experience to enable you to go looking for better T&C's.

If you speak to anyone in pretty much any industry they all say "it's not what it used to be!", this is certainly true of the medical and teaching profession, building trade, the police, fire service etc etc. Times have changed and you can either chose to roll with it and open doors or moan and not create any opportunitys for yourself in the coming years.

Thanks for your input.

Cheers

[ROSCO328]

Times are changing because people like you are willing to hand over anything so they can to fly a jet. Crazy.

[DutchExpat]

Times are indeed changing ask the guys and girls in AirFrance KLM CargoLux and Netjets all considered in the last few decent employers. Pensions for pilots almost don't exist anymore and everybody will go through a layoff or two these days.

[Artie Fufkin]

Just curious about the tax situation for, say, a UK pilot based abroad.

Do you pay local social security, Irish corporation tax and finally UK income tax when you pay yourself a dividend / and or salary from your company?

[Callsign Kilo]

Positive

By and large a good standard of training. It IS a training airline.
Extensive route network offering operational variety
Stable roster pattern which has maximum advantage if you are at your desired/home base
Ticketless/free jumpseat system for commuting

Negative

Massive financial outlay
Zero pay for most of your training / low pay from safety pilot release to 500hrs on type. Payment rates for FOs appear to continually reduce.
No guarantee of base
Largely no guarantee of annual hours although Storm suggest a guarantee of 30hrs per month (Therefore the minimum and only guarantee would be 330 hrs per year accounting for the compulsory month off)
Likely reduction in future prospects as expansion has ended ie time to command will increase
Complex taxation system. Many query it's legality
Increasingly seasonal position
Top heavy with FOs

[CEJM]

Originally Posted by Depone

Rubbish.

Every pilot starting in the industry now will pay for their type rating in one way or another.

I can name at least one airline in the UK where you don't pay for your typerating AND get a decent salary from the moment you sign on the dotted line.

[boredcounter]

Groundie question, I think very relevant?

Have you over committed financially?

[Check Airman]

dannyalliga,

Very interesting post. Here in the US, we often envy our EU brothers, but Ryanair shows that sometimes your own grass is greener.

From a regional pilot perspective, I wonder why on earth anybody would sign up for that? Paying for parking, training, hotels etc?

Pray tell, what is the allure of Ryanair? How do they find people to sign up for this? What draws people to this company?

[doniedarko]

.....because with after 160 hours (Total time) you can be sitting in the RHS of a nice shiney B737.....and your foot on the first rung of the ladder. Opportunities in Europe are limited to say the least. While I agree with the sentiments of not paying for training etc, its a very lonely place to watch class mates and colleagues get employed and get experience while you sit at home unemployed with nothing but your principles to keep you warm.
Ryanairs expansion is now over (no more deliveries) so it is only a matter of time before the 'cadet' factory ceases production. The word will get out "oh yeah you get a type rating but no flying"...

[1013.25mb]

I know it's not fantastic but there's no taking away from the fact that after a few years (perhaps more now with reduced hours), you will have an unfrozen licence and some good experience to enable you to go looking for better T&C's.

Its not that simple though. Airlines with "better T's & C's" as you put it, are struggling to stay afloat because of this very business model that people subscribe to. The employee cost base is simply higher at other airlines thus reducing profits thus reducing T's & C's. Better T's & C's will not be around when you reach the 2500-3000 hour mark, up unless you plan to move to the Middle East, and it isn't all that great out there now.

"We" as a community of pilots need to stop this self destructive process that we have allowed happen. The only way we can do this is via a union, but they seem (as is usual with unions) all words, no actions.

[olicana]

Anyone got any current figures regarding what a fo takes home after tax at Ryanair.

[ryanmaverick]

yeah,better stay home unemployed waiting for the call of a company who gives me 10000 euros,free type,5 stars hotel....then wake up at 35 and discover im too old to be called.

[172_driver]

Anyone got any current figures regarding what a fo takes home after tax at Ryanair.

Depends on FO's experience, contract type, hours flown, tax regulations, tax deductions (and now SI legislations). Too many variables to give a good answer. Would guess the median to be around 3000 euro/months at this time of the year.

[Callsign Kilo]

Would guess the median to be around 3000 euro/months at this time of the year.

If you are talking about net and during the winter then as an average then that figure is very very ambitious.

[AirbusA320.Easyjet]

It's pay to fly.

You are technically buying a Job from them. The overall cost of the whole type rating programme is well above €32k, and that only secures you a 6 month contract, and the contract isn't even with ryanair, you are contracted to work 6 months for a company that distributes pilots to Ryanair. I think the company is called Brookfield Aviation. And even after all this balooney, you're getting less than €2k a month. You're just buying a temporary contract here.