Iberia to Lose 4500 jobs - 25 airframes
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Is there a prize? If so, I counted 112 plus a dog, but I might have counted the man going across the road twice.
Still, like the peeing competition going on here, much less tedious than why lots are about to lose their jobs and how it can reasonably be avoided.
Still, like the peeing competition going on here, much less tedious than why lots are about to lose their jobs and how it can reasonably be avoided.
Last edited by blimey; 8th Mar 2013 at 13:39.
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Reminds me of the playground
I was there....
In other news, Vueling appear to have said an inital "no thanks" to IAG's offer.
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Choc
Agreed. Impotent and pathetic.
I don't know who I feel more sorry for the leaders or the sheep.
Their recent self selecting "poll" on bullying is case in point. BASSA have to deflect that they are being decimated (VR, mixed fleet, <50% strike support) so they throw out some tin pot survey. As I said self selecting and meaningless.
It went something like
1. Has a nasty pilot ever asked you to do anything on board that you didn't agree with?
2. If so did you throw a hissy fit, burst into tears or run straight to the BASSA forum to have a meltdown?
3. Has a nasty pilot ever offered you feedback? If so did you do anything in the question above.
4. Clearly as BA Cain crew you can never make a mistake. Has a nasty pilot ever said you have? If so did you act as in question 2?
If the answer to any of these questions is YES you have been bullied by one of those nasty pilots, you know the ones everyone in the world hates.
But don't worry because now you have filled in our survey everyone in BA will listen.
Agreed. Impotent and pathetic.
I don't know who I feel more sorry for the leaders or the sheep.
Their recent self selecting "poll" on bullying is case in point. BASSA have to deflect that they are being decimated (VR, mixed fleet, <50% strike support) so they throw out some tin pot survey. As I said self selecting and meaningless.
It went something like
1. Has a nasty pilot ever asked you to do anything on board that you didn't agree with?
2. If so did you throw a hissy fit, burst into tears or run straight to the BASSA forum to have a meltdown?
3. Has a nasty pilot ever offered you feedback? If so did you do anything in the question above.
4. Clearly as BA Cain crew you can never make a mistake. Has a nasty pilot ever said you have? If so did you act as in question 2?
If the answer to any of these questions is YES you have been bullied by one of those nasty pilots, you know the ones everyone in the world hates.
But don't worry because now you have filled in our survey everyone in BA will listen.
Last edited by normal_nigel; 10th Mar 2013 at 21:51.
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Iberia dispute..
@normal_nigel,
Your comments perfectly epitomise why certain members of BA flight crew are so deeply disliked, not just by cabin crew but also other employees.
Your arrogant self important tone is most unbecoming, but sadly one that seems to be all to common amongst certain individuals within BA's pilot community. You do the decent pilots employed by BA a great disservice, and one can only hope they treat you with the same disdain as the majority of the cabin crew whom you seem to rubbish.
I can only hope that when Mr Walsh has finished dealing with Iberia, he trains his sights firmly on your community. No reason why he won't, is there?! Or perhaps you really are so deluded you SERIOUSLY think he feels any loyalty towards you.
I wonder what glib comments you will have to offer then?
Your comments perfectly epitomise why certain members of BA flight crew are so deeply disliked, not just by cabin crew but also other employees.
Your arrogant self important tone is most unbecoming, but sadly one that seems to be all to common amongst certain individuals within BA's pilot community. You do the decent pilots employed by BA a great disservice, and one can only hope they treat you with the same disdain as the majority of the cabin crew whom you seem to rubbish.
I can only hope that when Mr Walsh has finished dealing with Iberia, he trains his sights firmly on your community. No reason why he won't, is there?! Or perhaps you really are so deluded you SERIOUSLY think he feels any loyalty towards you.
I wonder what glib comments you will have to offer then?
Last edited by gladrags; 10th Mar 2013 at 23:49.
I bet this looks really good if you're looking at BA as an outsider........
At the end of the day, BASSA/UNITE ran a flawed campaign a few years back and having failed to achieve their goals are now indulged in mud slinging and trying to cause collateral damage. Some rise to the bait.
If you work for Iberia you need to ask yourself if you really want BASSA/UNITE offering support or advice on how to conduct yourselves when dealing with IAG......
At the end of the day, BASSA/UNITE ran a flawed campaign a few years back and having failed to achieve their goals are now indulged in mud slinging and trying to cause collateral damage. Some rise to the bait.
If you work for Iberia you need to ask yourself if you really want BASSA/UNITE offering support or advice on how to conduct yourselves when dealing with IAG......
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IAG has accepted the non-binding proposals of the mediator in the dispute.
IAG Accepts Spanish Mediator
IAG Accepts Spanish Mediator
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I often think BA pilots aren't paid nearly enough given some of the issues they have to deal with down the back. There's quite enough to contend with when trying to get an aircraft from one place to another without all this s£!t going on in the background. It must require almost superhuman stamina! It's not that this kind of thing isn't tolerated in other companies, I have absolutely no experience of it happening in the first place, thank God! It's all very strange.
I understand these problems should lessen as the years go by though. You must be relieved!
I understand these problems should lessen as the years go by though. You must be relieved!
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Iberia dispute.
@ chocolateracer
Perhaps you would care to read normal_nigels posts again, paying particular attention to his list of 'opinions' on BA cabin crew.
I am sure I don't have to remind you, but these are people he works with very closely on a regular basis.
Do you think his post demonstrates any respect towards them?
Sadly, normal_nigels points of view rear their ugly head on a frequent basis and seem to be all to prevelant within 'certain' sections of BAs pilot community.
Perhaps after reading and understanding those comments, you will have a better comprehension of exactly why I(and a great deal of other employees with BA)look forward to the day Mr Walsh turns his 'attention' on BA's pilots.
Perhaps you would care to read normal_nigels posts again, paying particular attention to his list of 'opinions' on BA cabin crew.
I am sure I don't have to remind you, but these are people he works with very closely on a regular basis.
Do you think his post demonstrates any respect towards them?
Sadly, normal_nigels points of view rear their ugly head on a frequent basis and seem to be all to prevelant within 'certain' sections of BAs pilot community.
Perhaps after reading and understanding those comments, you will have a better comprehension of exactly why I(and a great deal of other employees with BA)look forward to the day Mr Walsh turns his 'attention' on BA's pilots.
Last edited by gladrags; 11th Mar 2013 at 09:42.
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Iberia dispute.
@ Noonday Gunn
Thanks for your 'constructive' suggestion.
I would like to point out, that at no time have I said "things are that bad" or that I feel a viable solution would be to resign, as it has become so intolerable. However, I thank you again for offering it as an option.
I merely stated that I dislike the behaviour and opinions that are unfortunately demonstrated and voiced by some(NOT all, I hasten to add)individuals within BAs flight crew ranks.
Do you seriously think that simply registering my dislike of that behaviour is reason enough to suggest "I leave and let the rest of you get on with it" as you so eloquently put it?
I'll also happily admit that I feel it's only right for the leadership team to now start looking at the BA flight crew community in order to make further savings. I think you will struggle to find anyone within BA(apart from a pilot obviously)who wouldn't support any such scheme.
I am disappointed by your comment. In my opinion it shows a real lack of imagination on your behalf, an understanding of the issues and a willingness to participate in seeking out workable solutions to a problem which is sadly having a detrimental effect on what once was(and still can be IMO)a great job with a great company.
Unfortunately for all parties concerned, whilst people have this mindset 'moving forward' seems like it will still be a very long way off. What a shame.
Also, the 15th comment on normal_nigel's 'list' where he refers to a 'gay drama' ensuing following developmental feedback being given is deeply unpleasant and totally inappropriate, both in the workplace and on a public forum.
One wonders what other prejudices normal_nigel has in his repertoire?
It also begs the question, should he should really be in the job he is, if he holds such bigoted opinions?
Thanks for your 'constructive' suggestion.
I would like to point out, that at no time have I said "things are that bad" or that I feel a viable solution would be to resign, as it has become so intolerable. However, I thank you again for offering it as an option.
I merely stated that I dislike the behaviour and opinions that are unfortunately demonstrated and voiced by some(NOT all, I hasten to add)individuals within BAs flight crew ranks.
Do you seriously think that simply registering my dislike of that behaviour is reason enough to suggest "I leave and let the rest of you get on with it" as you so eloquently put it?
I'll also happily admit that I feel it's only right for the leadership team to now start looking at the BA flight crew community in order to make further savings. I think you will struggle to find anyone within BA(apart from a pilot obviously)who wouldn't support any such scheme.
I am disappointed by your comment. In my opinion it shows a real lack of imagination on your behalf, an understanding of the issues and a willingness to participate in seeking out workable solutions to a problem which is sadly having a detrimental effect on what once was(and still can be IMO)a great job with a great company.
Unfortunately for all parties concerned, whilst people have this mindset 'moving forward' seems like it will still be a very long way off. What a shame.
Also, the 15th comment on normal_nigel's 'list' where he refers to a 'gay drama' ensuing following developmental feedback being given is deeply unpleasant and totally inappropriate, both in the workplace and on a public forum.
One wonders what other prejudices normal_nigel has in his repertoire?
It also begs the question, should he should really be in the job he is, if he holds such bigoted opinions?
Last edited by gladrags; 11th Mar 2013 at 17:49.
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Give me strength
1. We do not care about your dispute.
2. We do not care about the effect it has had on you.
3. We do not care that a few miserable bitter old women wont socialise downroute.
4. It costs me less.
5. I have a life outside of BA and I don't need the company of mentalists that I have never met before.
6. It's barely any different to what it has always been like in BA with the type of cabin crew we have.
7. I wasn't VCC but understand those who were.
8. I agree with BALPA. The Spanish cabin crew union has not used us as a support tool for 30 years by constantly attacking the "Flight Deck".
9. BALPA and BA pilots are not vilified worldwide. My mate is a senior BALPA rep. They are very prominent and influential in IFALPA and other alliances. In fact at the last IFALPA conference they were desperate to get a BALPA man as Vice President.
10. They are not "all out to get us" Dings. They don't have spy drones monitoring our conversations.
11. Certain prolific posters on other forums are getting quite a name for themselves but in the "concern for mental health" sort of way.
12. BALPA will never apologise so move on for your own sake or Wol will be reaching for the cutlery drawer again.
13. We REALLY don't care if you don't come out downroute. Again.
14. The authority gradient needs to be steepened onboard.
15. You dears need to realise that being managed or given feedback is not bullying.However crew have always been poor at receiving developmental or negative feedback, usually resulting in tears or a gay drama.
Ok?
1. We do not care about your dispute.
2. We do not care about the effect it has had on you.
3. We do not care that a few miserable bitter old women wont socialise downroute.
4. It costs me less.
5. I have a life outside of BA and I don't need the company of mentalists that I have never met before.
6. It's barely any different to what it has always been like in BA with the type of cabin crew we have.
7. I wasn't VCC but understand those who were.
8. I agree with BALPA. The Spanish cabin crew union has not used us as a support tool for 30 years by constantly attacking the "Flight Deck".
9. BALPA and BA pilots are not vilified worldwide. My mate is a senior BALPA rep. They are very prominent and influential in IFALPA and other alliances. In fact at the last IFALPA conference they were desperate to get a BALPA man as Vice President.
10. They are not "all out to get us" Dings. They don't have spy drones monitoring our conversations.
11. Certain prolific posters on other forums are getting quite a name for themselves but in the "concern for mental health" sort of way.
12. BALPA will never apologise so move on for your own sake or Wol will be reaching for the cutlery drawer again.
13. We REALLY don't care if you don't come out downroute. Again.
14. The authority gradient needs to be steepened onboard.
15. You dears need to realise that being managed or given feedback is not bullying.However crew have always been poor at receiving developmental or negative feedback, usually resulting in tears or a gay drama.
Ok?
For someone who really 'does not care' about the dispute, it's quite contradictory to be bothered and take the time to post such vile comments.
Accidentally bumped into the cabin crew having a great time down route, behind your back by any chance? Bless
Anyway, back on track I do hope IAG takes the offer of a slight climb down by the mediator. Carrying on will only make matters worse, with the prospect of a more embarrassing climb down later on.
Good luck guys!
Last edited by Watersidewonker; 11th Mar 2013 at 15:32.
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Two moments of reading the thread would have shown you that IAG have already accepted the mediators findings - Omnipresent posted as such this morning - see post 677, it is only a page back. It is now down to the unions to decide whether they want to play ball and accept the mediators judgement or not. So actually I find myself completely in agreement with you when you say
as the only ones "carrying on" at the moment are the unions, and the climb down for them later would be much worse.
Carrying on will only make matters worse, with the prospect of a more embarrassing climb down later on,
Last edited by Juan Tugoh; 11th Mar 2013 at 15:38.
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As I've said I hope IAG accept this slight climb down put forward by the mediators as nothing has been signed yet and history may repeat itself, with any agreement simply ripped up in a hissy fit. Basically they've accepted pretty much what the employees were offering, in terms of pay cuts before this whole sorry episode began. The toys were thrown out of the pram when the deadline was not met and cuts were made more severe. But with a little bit of back tracking and munching of humble pie mixed with impressive solidarity means we could be in for a sensible conclusion. Everyone a winner?
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[QUOTE]I'll also happily admit that I feel it's only right for the leadership team to now start looking at the BA flight crew community in order to make further savings/QUOTE]
But that raises the point so many BA cabin crew who are prone to "pilot bashing" miss. The BA flight crew community has been targeted, and will continue to be targeted as long as the airline exists. Every pilot accepts this - some more philosophically than others.
For years the average BA pilot's terms and conditions have deteriorated as the industry changes shape. Pilots have taken pay cuts and given up leave, agreed to work harder (certainly on short haul) and accepted that the role of a pilot and the nature of the airline business is evolving away from the world that BA used to inhabit. I would suggest the problem facing our cabin crew is they are (very badly) led by a union that won't ever recognise this as it isn't in the vested interests of those who live very well off the union to accept such a compelling truth. It may suprise you to know many BA pilots are unhappy with BALPA and some even say they wish we as a collective behaved "more like BASSA" but thankfully their short term thinking is comprehensively beaten back by the shear number of pilots who realise we either move with the times or face total extinction, to be replaced by a new and cheaper workforce - sound familiar?
I think you will find most BA pilots take no pleasure in watching our cabin crew lead to the wall by militant fools. The majority of crew I work with are friendly, professional and pleasant - and deserve much better. In the interest of balanced debate I have indeed seen Captains I work with treat members of crew in an extremely poor manner - this is however the exception. In the same way the number of pursers/CSDS/main crew who set out to disrupt and cause problems in the name of militancy and revenge are few and far between. Most BA crew just get on with their job.
Pining away for pilots to face their "karma" as I have heard it suggested smacks of a total lack of knowledge of the past and a failure to understand the future. I came to BA from the world of low cost - believe me when I say that "we" as a entire workforce have a lot further to fall before we can face up to our competitors of the future. Keeping alive a bitter feud that is firmly rooted in jealousy and misunderstanding will do none of us any good. The irony is we are much better off sticking together but sadly I think that time has passed us all by. Good luck to the BA cabin crew - just like the pilot workforce so many of you love to hate, you will need it.
But that raises the point so many BA cabin crew who are prone to "pilot bashing" miss. The BA flight crew community has been targeted, and will continue to be targeted as long as the airline exists. Every pilot accepts this - some more philosophically than others.
For years the average BA pilot's terms and conditions have deteriorated as the industry changes shape. Pilots have taken pay cuts and given up leave, agreed to work harder (certainly on short haul) and accepted that the role of a pilot and the nature of the airline business is evolving away from the world that BA used to inhabit. I would suggest the problem facing our cabin crew is they are (very badly) led by a union that won't ever recognise this as it isn't in the vested interests of those who live very well off the union to accept such a compelling truth. It may suprise you to know many BA pilots are unhappy with BALPA and some even say they wish we as a collective behaved "more like BASSA" but thankfully their short term thinking is comprehensively beaten back by the shear number of pilots who realise we either move with the times or face total extinction, to be replaced by a new and cheaper workforce - sound familiar?
I think you will find most BA pilots take no pleasure in watching our cabin crew lead to the wall by militant fools. The majority of crew I work with are friendly, professional and pleasant - and deserve much better. In the interest of balanced debate I have indeed seen Captains I work with treat members of crew in an extremely poor manner - this is however the exception. In the same way the number of pursers/CSDS/main crew who set out to disrupt and cause problems in the name of militancy and revenge are few and far between. Most BA crew just get on with their job.
Pining away for pilots to face their "karma" as I have heard it suggested smacks of a total lack of knowledge of the past and a failure to understand the future. I came to BA from the world of low cost - believe me when I say that "we" as a entire workforce have a lot further to fall before we can face up to our competitors of the future. Keeping alive a bitter feud that is firmly rooted in jealousy and misunderstanding will do none of us any good. The irony is we are much better off sticking together but sadly I think that time has passed us all by. Good luck to the BA cabin crew - just like the pilot workforce so many of you love to hate, you will need it.