Simple question! (FR)
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Simple question! (FR)
I am looking to save some assessment € and maybe a 30k€ TR, so for what it's worth:
Go Ryan or continue jobless?
Go Ryan or continue jobless?
Last edited by Jetpipe.; 28th Sep 2012 at 16:29.
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What about instructing ? or possibly a ground position to get some contacts - dispatch, cabin crew, ops are all good ways to increase knowledge at the same time. You could do the Ryan route but think that ship is slowly sailing and you wont earn much at all or get huge numbers of hours anymore.
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OutsideCAS, thank you for your kind advise! I have already thought about this for some time and still feel that I can't weight the situation correctly.. What would you choose if you had an assessment closing in and nothing else in hand?
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@jetpipe,
If i were you, go for ryanair. Yes, 30k is lot of money but you gain experience and your marketvalue will go up. What experience do you gain if you gain jobless???
It will be hard in the beginning but it will pay off later on.
Good luck and dont forget to enjoy the typerating.
If i were you, go for ryanair. Yes, 30k is lot of money but you gain experience and your marketvalue will go up. What experience do you gain if you gain jobless???
It will be hard in the beginning but it will pay off later on.
Good luck and dont forget to enjoy the typerating.
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Jetpipe, if you have an interview with Ryan then i guess on balance have a go for it, but i would be thinking about how much flying and earning potential i will have as a contractor with Ryan after spending such a large sum of money. In times past, it was a good way to get lots of experience on a good type and earn reasonable money but as said before those times are past. All you really are to Ryan is a source of revenue and their current business model is now unsustainable from a new hire perspective - down to personal preference in the end.
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What is your end goal? Airline pilot? Flight instructor? Bizjet pilot? Plane spotter? Figure that out first.
If you don't get the Ryanair 737NG type and experience, someone else will get it and move forward. At the end of the day, if you have the type and you get a minimum acceptable number of hours in it (not sure - probably 2,000 hours of 737NG flying), you become attractive to other carriers worldwide. Sure, that could take many years, but they may be the requirement to move to another gig down the road.
I haven't checked into them, but have you also looked at some of these flight programs (not sure if attached to a specific flight school) that set you up with low-pay Indonesian operators like Lion Air? Sounds like they pay nothing, they treat you like craaap, procedures are questionable, but you can get something like 800 hours per year on a 737-900ER. If you can withstand the short term pain, the long-term gain in terms of experience and career marketability could be very good. Just sayiang I would look into it if Ryanair would not get you where you want to go....
If you don't get the Ryanair 737NG type and experience, someone else will get it and move forward. At the end of the day, if you have the type and you get a minimum acceptable number of hours in it (not sure - probably 2,000 hours of 737NG flying), you become attractive to other carriers worldwide. Sure, that could take many years, but they may be the requirement to move to another gig down the road.
I haven't checked into them, but have you also looked at some of these flight programs (not sure if attached to a specific flight school) that set you up with low-pay Indonesian operators like Lion Air? Sounds like they pay nothing, they treat you like craaap, procedures are questionable, but you can get something like 800 hours per year on a 737-900ER. If you can withstand the short term pain, the long-term gain in terms of experience and career marketability could be very good. Just sayiang I would look into it if Ryanair would not get you where you want to go....
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First of all, thank you all for your replies!
You have summarized most of the factors affecting my decision.
@Stick35 - As much as I would like to agree with you and just do it, I have examples about ryan-cadets who after line training were put in a hotel working 5-10hrs per month, forced to move from one base to another, countless standbys in their schedule, etc... On the other hand though, I have some nice examples, fresh ones who are currently working their
ss off! I assume If I proceed, I will be needing a huge amount of luck!
@OutsideCAS - I know these times are past and that's the bothering part!
@Iver - I agree that it's all about the experience but Lionair?? No no! (Not that Ryanair is a better airline, but at least they have higher standard training and ofcourse fly Europe).
@0hunter0 - It seems that you have a clear insight/view of things...
@nick14 - What are your sources if I may ask? From what I know, the assessment days at East Midlands are 2 days x 8 candidates, per week continuous all year! I don't know how many of the successful ones are offered TR though..
In the end I think I' ll agree that it will be interesting and a nice experience to go to the assessment. So maybe that alone is a good first step! After that let's just leave it to fate...
You have summarized most of the factors affecting my decision.
@Stick35 - As much as I would like to agree with you and just do it, I have examples about ryan-cadets who after line training were put in a hotel working 5-10hrs per month, forced to move from one base to another, countless standbys in their schedule, etc... On the other hand though, I have some nice examples, fresh ones who are currently working their
ss off! I assume If I proceed, I will be needing a huge amount of luck!@OutsideCAS - I know these times are past and that's the bothering part!
@Iver - I agree that it's all about the experience but Lionair?? No no! (Not that Ryanair is a better airline, but at least they have higher standard training and ofcourse fly Europe).
@0hunter0 - It seems that you have a clear insight/view of things...
@nick14 - What are your sources if I may ask? From what I know, the assessment days at East Midlands are 2 days x 8 candidates, per week continuous all year! I don't know how many of the successful ones are offered TR though..
In the end I think I' ll agree that it will be interesting and a nice experience to go to the assessment. So maybe that alone is a good first step! After that let's just leave it to fate...
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Actually, i think Hunter is spot on. There is absolutely no reason for them to slow FO recruitment whilst the demand is still there from wannabes, and word from TRE and SFI alike is that the 'cannery' at EMA is still working flat out!
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@Depone - I meant from an employee to employer perpective! Not that I know how things are at Lionair ofcourse... 
Last edited by Jetpipe.; 30th Sep 2012 at 18:28.
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There's some utter rubbish on this thread. For a start, promotion prospects have never been better with so many Capts and senior FOs leaving. The real question is whether you want to join a company that has such a peculiarly high staff turnover, given what it alludes to.
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@jetpipe,
If i were you, go for ryanair. Yes, 30k is lot of money but you gain experience and your marketvalue will go up. What experience do you gain if you gain jobless???
It will be hard in the beginning but it will pay off later on.
Good luck and dont forget to enjoy the typerating.
If i were you, go for ryanair. Yes, 30k is lot of money but you gain experience and your marketvalue will go up. What experience do you gain if you gain jobless???
It will be hard in the beginning but it will pay off later on.
Good luck and dont forget to enjoy the typerating.
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Jetpipe. If it were me I'd start the process and get as much information about the current states of pay and work available in person or linkedin about Ryanair.
There are a decent of armchair pundits on here that'll look to push you either way based on their own opinions.
Do the budgeting and if it is something you can live with, think it's a job and type rating where others have neither... I don't care what people say, if you can afford it you will have a clear advantage going forward. Best of Luck
There are a decent of armchair pundits on here that'll look to push you either way based on their own opinions.
Do the budgeting and if it is something you can live with, think it's a job and type rating where others have neither... I don't care what people say, if you can afford it you will have a clear advantage going forward. Best of Luck
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W G A. I think you are the one with blinkers on. If no one ever gained experience there would be no aircraft flying. The BMI guys may be out of work, but in general, they are far better placed to get a job than most just now. You have to start somewhere and yes, there is a risky area in between staring and gaining a command, but if you don't start, you will never get there. The question is, does he pay now and get on the band wagon, or does he wait and hope he gets something for free later!
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do the type rating! once your licence is a year old with no flying it is almost a useless piece of paper and you still have training debts!!
yes 30k is a lot and the pay in the first twelve months is crap, in fact it is almost the same as an fo turboprop pay but you dont see many turboprop fo going to emirates do you!! most guys at my base uk (worst bases in winter!!)average 55 hrs across all the fos on about 60euro an hour( i think, not sure) so work on 3000euro a month.
what can you earn pulling pints or flippin burgers!! and will that give you experince for another flying job.
The aviation market in europe is dead so what do you do? get a job so that you are gaining experience or wait it out and see what happens when guys are just out of flying school and a lot more current.
as much as the ryanair deal sucks what other companies are recruiting cadets that dont make you pay for the type!!!
good luck with your choice but remember the ink on your licence is drying fast!!!!
yes 30k is a lot and the pay in the first twelve months is crap, in fact it is almost the same as an fo turboprop pay but you dont see many turboprop fo going to emirates do you!! most guys at my base uk (worst bases in winter!!)average 55 hrs across all the fos on about 60euro an hour( i think, not sure) so work on 3000euro a month.
what can you earn pulling pints or flippin burgers!! and will that give you experince for another flying job.
The aviation market in europe is dead so what do you do? get a job so that you are gaining experience or wait it out and see what happens when guys are just out of flying school and a lot more current.
as much as the ryanair deal sucks what other companies are recruiting cadets that dont make you pay for the type!!!
good luck with your choice but remember the ink on your licence is drying fast!!!!
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captainng,
I agree that recency is important, but as mentioned earlier in this thread there are other options besides going for FR at once. I think training and working as an FI is one thing which deserves to be mentioned in this context. It might take some time and it won't necessarily lead to more instrument, ME or multicrew hours for a while, but several young pilots have successfully taken the road as FIs before. From what I hear the experience is valued by some operators and may open some extra doors.
My license is well over a year old. I'm going for an FI(A) rating now, but I'm also considering FR or other operators as a cadet. I'm getting pretty tired after a year of odd jobs and little flying, but I hope to get something going as an instructor. While I might be a bit naive and ignorant about some things at the moment, I believe that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Most of the operators I've been in contact with this far seem to have been more interested in knowing my total hours and little else besides other minimum requirements.
I agree that recency is important, but as mentioned earlier in this thread there are other options besides going for FR at once. I think training and working as an FI is one thing which deserves to be mentioned in this context. It might take some time and it won't necessarily lead to more instrument, ME or multicrew hours for a while, but several young pilots have successfully taken the road as FIs before. From what I hear the experience is valued by some operators and may open some extra doors.
My license is well over a year old. I'm going for an FI(A) rating now, but I'm also considering FR or other operators as a cadet. I'm getting pretty tired after a year of odd jobs and little flying, but I hope to get something going as an instructor. While I might be a bit naive and ignorant about some things at the moment, I believe that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Most of the operators I've been in contact with this far seem to have been more interested in knowing my total hours and little else besides other minimum requirements.
Last edited by LS-4; 5th Oct 2012 at 11:58.
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ls-4
i came through the charter world of piston singles and twins and then on to turboprop and then command on them and then moved onto jets with a fast command into the left with ryanair.
as much as i love the experience i have gotten from going this way it certainly hasn,t put me in a better situation financially as i was on lesss than jet fo pay for the first 12 years of my career. now being in my late 30s almost 40s i have collegues who are 25 and are going to be in a much better situation when they are my age.
i fly with guys who were and still are instructors and all there comments are that they wished they had applied to ryanair earlier as no one seems to care about flight instructor hours.
I am all for getting as much stick time as possible before jumping onto a jet but flight instructing is mostly watching somebody else fly it for you so you are really aren't getting much out of it anyway and the pay is less than min wage when you take in all the hours that you dont get paid.
only my two cents but if i had my time over again i would like to have gone straight to a jet as nobody counts my piston and turboprop time anyway!!
i came through the charter world of piston singles and twins and then on to turboprop and then command on them and then moved onto jets with a fast command into the left with ryanair.
as much as i love the experience i have gotten from going this way it certainly hasn,t put me in a better situation financially as i was on lesss than jet fo pay for the first 12 years of my career. now being in my late 30s almost 40s i have collegues who are 25 and are going to be in a much better situation when they are my age.
i fly with guys who were and still are instructors and all there comments are that they wished they had applied to ryanair earlier as no one seems to care about flight instructor hours.
I am all for getting as much stick time as possible before jumping onto a jet but flight instructing is mostly watching somebody else fly it for you so you are really aren't getting much out of it anyway and the pay is less than min wage when you take in all the hours that you dont get paid.
only my two cents but if i had my time over again i would like to have gone straight to a jet as nobody counts my piston and turboprop time anyway!!
Last edited by captainng; 5th Oct 2012 at 16:13.