Ryanair bases and new EU regulations on social security
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Well if you really believe that Torque tonight, then sadly you're very very blinkered.
I have many friends at FR based all over the empire, and I know of only one....ONE.... That pays ANY form of tax, and he's a UK skipper that's been with FR for the best part of a decade. All the others have been more than open about not paying any form of tax since joining FR.
What's gone on is a joke and if FR really are asking for proof of tax compliance they aren't doing a very good job are they!
I even heard the FR Frankfurt crew room was raided not so long ago by the German authorities because of precisely this issue! That came from an FR F/O who happens to be a very good mate (just before you question my info).
The VAST majority of FR plots have taken the piss out of the EU tax system for faaaar too long so personally, I welcome anything Ryanair and the tax authorities will now do to ensure tax compliance.
I have many friends at FR based all over the empire, and I know of only one....ONE.... That pays ANY form of tax, and he's a UK skipper that's been with FR for the best part of a decade. All the others have been more than open about not paying any form of tax since joining FR.
What's gone on is a joke and if FR really are asking for proof of tax compliance they aren't doing a very good job are they!
I even heard the FR Frankfurt crew room was raided not so long ago by the German authorities because of precisely this issue! That came from an FR F/O who happens to be a very good mate (just before you question my info).
The VAST majority of FR plots have taken the piss out of the EU tax system for faaaar too long so personally, I welcome anything Ryanair and the tax authorities will now do to ensure tax compliance.
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Your comments are hearsay, mine are based on oversight of contracts and my tax return. As I said, a more conventional employment/tax arrangement would be welcomed by all, but to say NO tax is being paid is absolute rubbish. 
Ryanair made a point of ensuring that the contracts were tax compliant at the time they were issued, not for our benefit, but to insulate themselves from any future fallout.
The change of rules means that now practically every country whose airspace you enter wants you to pay full income tax there. Obviously there needs to be some international agreement to clarify the situation but until then the majority contractors are paying full tax in RoI under Irish contracts. To accuse 99% of the pilots of paying no tax anywhere is utter nonsense and clearly said by someone with an axe to grind or limited knowledge of the facts.
Ryanair made a point of ensuring that the contracts were tax compliant at the time they were issued, not for our benefit, but to insulate themselves from any future fallout.The change of rules means that now practically every country whose airspace you enter wants you to pay full income tax there. Obviously there needs to be some international agreement to clarify the situation but until then the majority contractors are paying full tax in RoI under Irish contracts. To accuse 99% of the pilots of paying no tax anywhere is utter nonsense and clearly said by someone with an axe to grind or limited knowledge of the facts.
Last edited by Torque Tonight; 24th Aug 2012 at 15:16.
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2 whites,2 reds,
Speak for your friends, and please dont include the rest of us(the "vast majority, of Ryanair pilots") in the 'dont pay any tax catagory. Get your facts right before you shoot your mouth off, you havent a clue what you are talking about.
The fact that all of your good friends are tax evaders, is neither here nor there. Anyway dont let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Speak for your friends, and please dont include the rest of us(the "vast majority, of Ryanair pilots") in the 'dont pay any tax catagory. Get your facts right before you shoot your mouth off, you havent a clue what you are talking about.
The fact that all of your good friends are tax evaders, is neither here nor there. Anyway dont let the facts get in the way of a good story.
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Taxation
I found the treatment fair from the HR Taxoffice back at the time when I was liable to UK Taxes. The poor Germans asked me to pay the diffrence Tax between the UK and the German tax as I paid not enough in the UK according to the Statement provided to the Germans back that time. The linear taxation gave me more Net in the UK and the Germans took another crop. I did not consult the double taxation agreement between UK and Germany back at the time and lost some serious money one time to the Tax Office in Germany, they lost a few months later a Taxpayer = I moved out of the Country and continue to contribute to the UK Tax.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxtreaties/in-force/germany.pdf
That link should give you the recently uodated agreement between UK and Germany for example. Employment is also mentioned there, Art. 14 / 3. I consulted also other double taxation agreements between EU-Member States and others and there are often provisions for "Crews", named Seamen and Aircrew...
It is clear that people have to pay some tax somewhere. Try to stay legal and you benefit as well from existing rules and regulations. To evade Tax will get you into trouble one day, some sooner, some later.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxtreaties/in-force/germany.pdf
That link should give you the recently uodated agreement between UK and Germany for example. Employment is also mentioned there, Art. 14 / 3. I consulted also other double taxation agreements between EU-Member States and others and there are often provisions for "Crews", named Seamen and Aircrew...
It is clear that people have to pay some tax somewhere. Try to stay legal and you benefit as well from existing rules and regulations. To evade Tax will get you into trouble one day, some sooner, some later.
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Guys, I'm not here with an axe to grind, really I'm not.
But this stuff is common knowledge. Ryanair pilots do move around.....we've got a few ex FR chaps in my company. They've all been quite vocal about it. It's all the same stuff I've been hearing from my mates at FR. So please don't think this is just what the few people I know are saying.
Sorry if this has hit a nerve but are you saying the Frankfurt crew room didn't get raided by German authorities? I'm guessing that wasn't in search of a 101ml bottle of water sneaked through security!
For those that are paying the correct tax and social charges....you have nothing to fear from this legislation(well for the next 10 years anyway)....but I'm sorry folks, I think there will be a fair few that will be a bit concerned at the mo.
Anyway, it's Friday evening and that means beer time.
Have a good weekend folks
But this stuff is common knowledge. Ryanair pilots do move around.....we've got a few ex FR chaps in my company. They've all been quite vocal about it. It's all the same stuff I've been hearing from my mates at FR. So please don't think this is just what the few people I know are saying.
Sorry if this has hit a nerve but are you saying the Frankfurt crew room didn't get raided by German authorities? I'm guessing that wasn't in search of a 101ml bottle of water sneaked through security!
For those that are paying the correct tax and social charges....you have nothing to fear from this legislation(well for the next 10 years anyway)....but I'm sorry folks, I think there will be a fair few that will be a bit concerned at the mo.
Anyway, it's Friday evening and that means beer time.
Have a good weekend folks
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It is likely that most of those getting leant on by the Stasi are already paying full tax in RoI. The squabble occurs because a number of countries all want to claim tax primacy over some poor contract pilot whose getting pulled in all directions - this is what needs to be resolved, and is not an indication of tax evasion.
There are still a few pilots out there on old, old contracts which pre-date RYR's mandatory tax compliance contract terms. For those guys, tax arrangements are their own responsibility, but all of those that I have met claimed to pay tax somewhere. A far cry from the 99% evasion alleged.
As 2W2R rightly said, its Friday evening... happy hour.
There are still a few pilots out there on old, old contracts which pre-date RYR's mandatory tax compliance contract terms. For those guys, tax arrangements are their own responsibility, but all of those that I have met claimed to pay tax somewhere. A far cry from the 99% evasion alleged.
As 2W2R rightly said, its Friday evening... happy hour.
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Depone,
I totally agree, most of the guys who are below command hours in FR / EK DEFO ;-) are on the new contracts that came out in 2009. This means they pay tax in Ireland at the going rate for contractors. The only way that guys on this deal can claim they are not paying any tax, is if they are claiming 100% of their income as expenses. Difficult to do this legitimately, but it is possible if you spent as much as you earned on "legitimate" business expenses.
To answer emergencyexits question: "Anyone received a base change or in the know of someone who did since June this year?"
I only know of the guys who left just before in March 2012 on the so called "summer contracts".
The interesting question would be, do these summer contracts constitute a change in your material circumstances?
If not then expect FR to be sending more guys and gals out on the temporary summer deal where A) They don't receive out of base pay and B) Don't have to worry about this threads original question!! - (Will FR have to pay their contractors social security contributions if their material circumstances change after June 2012? And therefore does this mean no one will ever get to change base again??)
Wow this has cheered me up for the weekend
. . .
I totally agree, most of the guys who are below command hours in FR / EK DEFO ;-) are on the new contracts that came out in 2009. This means they pay tax in Ireland at the going rate for contractors. The only way that guys on this deal can claim they are not paying any tax, is if they are claiming 100% of their income as expenses. Difficult to do this legitimately, but it is possible if you spent as much as you earned on "legitimate" business expenses.
To answer emergencyexits question: "Anyone received a base change or in the know of someone who did since June this year?"
I only know of the guys who left just before in March 2012 on the so called "summer contracts".
The interesting question would be, do these summer contracts constitute a change in your material circumstances?
If not then expect FR to be sending more guys and gals out on the temporary summer deal where A) They don't receive out of base pay and B) Don't have to worry about this threads original question!! - (Will FR have to pay their contractors social security contributions if their material circumstances change after June 2012? And therefore does this mean no one will ever get to change base again??)
Wow this has cheered me up for the weekend
. . .
Last edited by jimsmitty01; 24th Aug 2012 at 21:00.
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Itīs actually true whatīs been said here; most of the pilots (Brookfields, nb!,) are compliant in one way or the other. I personally know a few who arenīt, but theyīre all working on it. My point is basically, Brookfield are feeling the heat, and they insist that everyone becomes compliant. I also know that they donīt care too much where you are paying your tax, as long as you have a written statement that you are paying the said tax somewhere - and thereby freeing themselves of any accountability.
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2 Reds - you're talking nonsense I'm afraid. Your claims may have been true 7 or 8 years ago, but I don't know a single colleague who does not pay the legal amount of tax that they owe.
Perhaps when you get back from the pub you could apologise for calling us all tax evaders?
Perhaps when you get back from the pub you could apologise for calling us all tax evaders?
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"My point is basically, Brookfield are feeling the heat, and they insist that everyone becomes compliant. I also know that they donīt care too much where you are paying your tax, as long as you have a written statement that you are paying the said tax somewhere - and thereby freeing themselves of any accountability."
That is until someone stands up and claims employment. Their 'accountability' will then be sorely tested; as it should be. Bet Fred should open a book on who's going to win that one.
That is until someone stands up and claims employment. Their 'accountability' will then be sorely tested; as it should be. Bet Fred should open a book on who's going to win that one.
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The truth, as always, lies somewhere in the middle.....
A great number of my colleagues (and by that I mean people I know, not the total 3000 pilot workforce) do not pay any form of tax anywhere.
However, 99% of those who joined since Jan 2009 pay tax in either the ROI, UK, or by exception another country.
A great number of my colleagues (and by that I mean people I know, not the total 3000 pilot workforce) do not pay any form of tax anywhere.
However, 99% of those who joined since Jan 2009 pay tax in either the ROI, UK, or by exception another country.
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And don't forget that the so-called contractors receive absolutely ZERO of any benefits which might be consider normal for employees. It's all about getting 'employees' at cheap rates. The advantage RYR have over their competitors over crew costs, including cabin crew, is enormous and scandalous. A big chunk of their profit comes from this strategy. They might be trying to make it seem legal, but it's still a dogs dinner; very smelly.
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B738 driver I have a question for you.
Im on the 'old' BRK contract. Its expiring next year. I have been paying full tax as a sole trader under the self assessment system for the duration of the contract with my own accountant.He has given BRK a letter to that effect.
My question is this - If I sign the new contract will I have to set up a LTD with one of the 'approved' accountants or can I set up a LTD company myself with my current accountant ?
Thats the real issue for me. I don't care about the huge taxes I pay.I offset some expense each year but my effective rate is north of 40% including social contributions and USC.The issue I want to avoid is using the crook accountants when iv been doing a good job until now.
Im on the 'old' BRK contract. Its expiring next year. I have been paying full tax as a sole trader under the self assessment system for the duration of the contract with my own accountant.He has given BRK a letter to that effect.
My question is this - If I sign the new contract will I have to set up a LTD with one of the 'approved' accountants or can I set up a LTD company myself with my current accountant ?
Thats the real issue for me. I don't care about the huge taxes I pay.I offset some expense each year but my effective rate is north of 40% including social contributions and USC.The issue I want to avoid is using the crook accountants when iv been doing a good job until now.
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Drifting off track a little here guys. I think the original question at the beginning of the thread asked whether the new European Regulations on social security meant that guys and gals are less likely to get the base transfer they want. As Ryanair fear that they may have to contribute to some social security taxes under the new rules which came into effect in June.
Does anyone know anyone who has moved since that date? And has anyone noticed a decreasing trend in base transfers?
Does anyone know anyone who has moved since that date? And has anyone noticed a decreasing trend in base transfers?
Death Cruiser Flight Crew
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This: Ryanair summonsed to court over alleged illegal work The Connexion
has also been a hot topic in the local French language newspapers.
has also been a hot topic in the local French language newspapers.
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Jimsmitty - I think you're probably right there. I wonder though how this will affect upgrades?
If it means they are likely to stay in their current country, I might give some thought to not leaving!
If it means they are likely to stay in their current country, I might give some thought to not leaving!
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I was wondering if Ryanair accepts mutual transfer of pilots from a base to another. I mean assuming I am in base A and I am interested in base B where there is a pilot which is interested in my current base, does the company allow a base switch between us?
Thanks
Thanks
