Emb145 Command or A320 First Officer?
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No perfect answer here but, unless you have overwhelming personal circumstances, take the A320 rating every time. As one who has been on the wrong side of this truism, my observation of the aviation industry is that without a Boeing or an Airbus on your licence, you are not really considered to have 'made it' as a fully-fledged commercial pilot. No offence intended, but these are the facts as I see them.
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decision
No one has a crystal ball so we can't know for sure what state the uk or europe will be in when you get back from HK! But where will you go with the elusive A320 time, Easyjet won't take you, you're not ctc! So who else, monarch? Apply now if that's what you want! BA? Get your command and apply in a year, what I'm saying is there is no correct answer. Lots of guys think type is the holy grail. The big question is what will you come back to if the UK is where you want to be! If it is then maybe take your command! Good luck!
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I would also think about these aspects:
If You take the Airbus will You get bonded?
Also if You take the command at your present company how much can you save let's say in one or two years? Maybe You can save enough to sponsor yourself a type-rating in the near future if You want to change or if your company goes bust. Even with command rating and time under your belt You can sit back to the right seat if there's no more option.
If You can start builiding command hours and earn more that's something that shouldn't be overlooked.
Of course this whole story is about job security and future planning...difficult if not impossible thing today.
If You take the Airbus will You get bonded?
Also if You take the command at your present company how much can you save let's say in one or two years? Maybe You can save enough to sponsor yourself a type-rating in the near future if You want to change or if your company goes bust. Even with command rating and time under your belt You can sit back to the right seat if there's no more option.
If You can start builiding command hours and earn more that's something that shouldn't be overlooked.
Of course this whole story is about job security and future planning...difficult if not impossible thing today.
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Thing is, at regional/granite the future is fairly uncertain at the moment. The command may never come.
At Qatar, the future is considerably more certain.
You will be bonded either way so that's not really an issue.
At Qatar, the future is considerably more certain.
You will be bonded either way so that's not really an issue.
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Get on the right bit of kit, with the right company....then look for your command.
I didn't and regret it now.
I didn't and regret it now.
Last edited by stop, stop, stop; 17th Jun 2012 at 10:31.
Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Contacted
You need to ask yourself what your long term goals are.
Originally Posted by tony2F
But where will you go with the elusive A320 time,
Originally Posted by goodpic
If You take the Airbus will You get bonded?
Originally Posted by goodpic
if You take the command at your present company how much can you save let's say in one or two years? Maybe You can save enough to sponsor yourself a type-rating in the near future if You want to change or if your company goes bust.
Originally Posted by flying macaco
The command may never come.
All great points though, keep them coming!
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It's funny I read this.... Right now I'm thinking of EK co-pilot job versus staying on command on the 737 I have right now....
EK is a lot better pay and perks... And well it's EK....
EK is a lot better pay and perks... And well it's EK....
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Similar thoughts here, pretty much just waiting for the phone call for command course in FR while I wait for a course in EK, who ever calls first will get me, bu if it's the EK route how do I get back if after a fe years I hav had enough?
It's an hourly thought
It's an hourly thought
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Reading all replies, and most importantly your thoughts Paragon, the A320 route ticks more boxes and has more plusses than negatives. The next few years are going to be hard for everyone in the industry. Being a captain at a small operator with an "uncertain" future is perhaps the riskier option right now. With an A320 rating there will be regular opportunities to get back to the UK in the future. Turning down a command opportunity is hard, I did it last year, at the same stage of career as you, to join the bottom of the list at BA. I get the occasional twinge of regret but as someone else pointed out, whatever you decide looking back is pointless, the future is far more interesting.
Good luck!
Good luck!
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One more thing to consider regarding jumping ship on the A320 RHS, how long or would there be any possibility or in any form of writing that an upgrade to the LHS can be secured? 
Cheers and goodluck!
Cheers and goodluck!
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Take the A320 rating and wait for a command there. If it's Doha, then their expansion means you won't have to wait more than a few years (IMHO). Staying on the 145 is backing yourself into a cul-de-sac in aviation terms. As you can see yourself, there is no natural progression from the LHS of a 145 these days.
I would also resist the urge to move onto heavy metal while out in the sand pit. It does wonders for you're ego, but it means you end up with a useless type if your plan is to come back to europe. Most 777 or 330 operators in europe are large legacy carriers with a very long seniority list.
Have a game plan if you're heading to the sand pit. Do your time, save your money, kiss derriere and get a 320 command. 5 years tops and then head home. Should see you about right.
I would also resist the urge to move onto heavy metal while out in the sand pit. It does wonders for you're ego, but it means you end up with a useless type if your plan is to come back to europe. Most 777 or 330 operators in europe are large legacy carriers with a very long seniority list.
Have a game plan if you're heading to the sand pit. Do your time, save your money, kiss derriere and get a 320 command. 5 years tops and then head home. Should see you about right.
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If you get the E145 command position, you will likely move to the A320 FO slot anyway if you wish to move to another carrier that operates them. Why not just go to the Airbus now and open up your career prospects sooner? Why wait when you could be earning more "valued" experience sooner than later?
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320 hands down.
I have been working on contract the last 7 years and my impression is that command time on RJ's is not considered "real" command time when applying for DEC jobs, unless it's on an RJ.
Get the right type rating now and make Yourself more employable in the future.
Good luck
I have been working on contract the last 7 years and my impression is that command time on RJ's is not considered "real" command time when applying for DEC jobs, unless it's on an RJ.
Get the right type rating now and make Yourself more employable in the future.
Good luck
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Paragon
This is a no brainer
Ask yourself this. What do you want to do as a career for the rest of your life. If its be a Commercial Pilot, then ask yourself this. When, not if, but when you lose your job because your company is no longer around, what and where are you going to go with a 145 rating. If you had a 320 rating, how would it be then ?
You need to move onto the 320. Guys came from your place to the middle east 2 years ago onto the 320 and are now returning to the UK for Virgin onto their 340s.
You can sit there with your command time building, but it means Jack **** when your out of a job. No one cares and you wont get another job no matter how many hours you have got on a 145 or how many hours you have got as command. No one cares. All that matters is how many hours on what aircraft and a 320 is 100 times better rating to have than a 145. Search for jobs and you will see.
PS, its not as bad as you think here
This is a no brainer
Ask yourself this. What do you want to do as a career for the rest of your life. If its be a Commercial Pilot, then ask yourself this. When, not if, but when you lose your job because your company is no longer around, what and where are you going to go with a 145 rating. If you had a 320 rating, how would it be then ?
You need to move onto the 320. Guys came from your place to the middle east 2 years ago onto the 320 and are now returning to the UK for Virgin onto their 340s.
You can sit there with your command time building, but it means Jack **** when your out of a job. No one cares and you wont get another job no matter how many hours you have got on a 145 or how many hours you have got as command. No one cares. All that matters is how many hours on what aircraft and a 320 is 100 times better rating to have than a 145. Search for jobs and you will see.
PS, its not as bad as you think here
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At the end of the day, whatever is written on an annoymous bulletin board is just so much hot air.
On saying that, given that your current employer (na names, no pack drill), have been less than forthcoming on their plans, add to that the entire fleet has allegedly been transferred into an Isle of Man holding company and they seem hell bent on resurecting the British Midland brand and having dual HQs I would be running for the door. In fact....
The 145 is a dying type and if the opportunity to fly an A320 exists, I see it as a no brainer.
Just my tuppenceworth.
On saying that, given that your current employer (na names, no pack drill), have been less than forthcoming on their plans, add to that the entire fleet has allegedly been transferred into an Isle of Man holding company and they seem hell bent on resurecting the British Midland brand and having dual HQs I would be running for the door. In fact....
The 145 is a dying type and if the opportunity to fly an A320 exists, I see it as a no brainer.
Just my tuppenceworth.
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Don't know about Europe but here in USA, Captain (PIC) time is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL in getting hired onto bigger/better gigs.
Turning down an E145 CA slot for more SIC time (even in an Airbus) would be considered a lateral, or even downward, move here.
I would say stick with the CA upgrade, but then again I'm not sure if Europe has the same adherence to PIC time when looking to move on.
Turning down an E145 CA slot for more SIC time (even in an Airbus) would be considered a lateral, or even downward, move here.
I would say stick with the CA upgrade, but then again I'm not sure if Europe has the same adherence to PIC time when looking to move on.
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With respect, this thread is anything but hot air and if the OP is not at least swayed one way or the other by the arguments, I'd be surprised.
Whatever opportunity you have to progress to bigger/better airplanes/airlines take them now, you could easily start another thread about missed opportunities and that would be really long. As someone said above, domestic circumstances not withstanding, take the flipping Airbus rating!
Whatever opportunity you have to progress to bigger/better airplanes/airlines take them now, you could easily start another thread about missed opportunities and that would be really long. As someone said above, domestic circumstances not withstanding, take the flipping Airbus rating!
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aa73,
Respectfully, you yanks clearly don't understand European aviation. In the States, you no longer have ab initio flight training where it is possible to get hired into an A320 at 400 flight hours. Looks like your new laws will require 1500 hours and an ATP to get hired onto a Beech 1900D or a CRJ. Different context here in Europe.
So, if you are an E145 driver and you aspire to flying for an Airbus operator, you will go to the right-hand seat whether you have 10,000 hours as a Captain on the E145 or you are hired from the right-hand seat. Super unlikely that you will go from left seat to left seat. So, why not get the type rating and move directly into the Airbus and start gaining "valued" experience in a very popular type sooner than later? That is the point. This is not the United States - ab initio pilots with 500 total hours and a type rating are competing for the available A320/19/21 and 737NG slots out there. Plus, having an Airbus type and as much flight time on type (better to build that time sooner than later) could be viewed as decent career insurance in case more European airlines tank financially. Although less appealing, you can find Airbus jobs in the Middle East, Asia and even wild Africa if your Euro carrier collapses. An E145 type is not as popular or likely to pay as well unless you want to fly a Legacy bizjet abroad. If you want to fly an E145 for your career - good for you - upgrade and enjoy your career (and hope your airline does not fail or downsize).
Why not get the more valuable and marketable type on the A320 sooner? My preference might differ from others and that is fine. We may all have different opinions and we will all be lucky to have jobs in a few years if the economy continues to decline.
Respectfully, you yanks clearly don't understand European aviation. In the States, you no longer have ab initio flight training where it is possible to get hired into an A320 at 400 flight hours. Looks like your new laws will require 1500 hours and an ATP to get hired onto a Beech 1900D or a CRJ. Different context here in Europe.
So, if you are an E145 driver and you aspire to flying for an Airbus operator, you will go to the right-hand seat whether you have 10,000 hours as a Captain on the E145 or you are hired from the right-hand seat. Super unlikely that you will go from left seat to left seat. So, why not get the type rating and move directly into the Airbus and start gaining "valued" experience in a very popular type sooner than later? That is the point. This is not the United States - ab initio pilots with 500 total hours and a type rating are competing for the available A320/19/21 and 737NG slots out there. Plus, having an Airbus type and as much flight time on type (better to build that time sooner than later) could be viewed as decent career insurance in case more European airlines tank financially. Although less appealing, you can find Airbus jobs in the Middle East, Asia and even wild Africa if your Euro carrier collapses. An E145 type is not as popular or likely to pay as well unless you want to fly a Legacy bizjet abroad. If you want to fly an E145 for your career - good for you - upgrade and enjoy your career (and hope your airline does not fail or downsize).
Why not get the more valuable and marketable type on the A320 sooner? My preference might differ from others and that is fine. We may all have different opinions and we will all be lucky to have jobs in a few years if the economy continues to decline.
Last edited by Iver; 18th Jun 2012 at 23:11.