Ryanair
The conversation I heard was with Brest ATC, so it must have been another event.
Seems it happens to FR more often than I thought then.
And fwiw, I didn't jump to any conclusions only that life must be frustrating at times for FR pilots, due to the manner in which their company chooses to equip it's aeroplanes, conduct it's ops and it's choice of aerodromes.
At some point I will stop replying, cause I am quite busy in general and have better things to do, no offense.
If you guys are happy at FR all the better, enjoy!
Seems it happens to FR more often than I thought then.
And fwiw, I didn't jump to any conclusions only that life must be frustrating at times for FR pilots, due to the manner in which their company chooses to equip it's aeroplanes, conduct it's ops and it's choice of aerodromes.
At some point I will stop replying, cause I am quite busy in general and have better things to do, no offense.
If you guys are happy at FR all the better, enjoy!
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Yea, MAYBEPILOT and in a country which is, three times bigger (at least) than Europe. And yes, in the USA controlers seem more apt at giving directs and generaly, facilitating requests!!! So, no comparison I am afraid!!
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At FR we are home everynight. We rarely fly past midnight. We are rarely called to work on our days off. It's a perfect place to be in aviation and raise a family.
Personally I'm on a floating contract and that suits us the best at the moment for our lifestyle. So my gross salary is under €145,000 per year. I work 5 days on earlies and 5 days off then 5 lates...then a repeating pattern and so on.
All the the operational decisions are made by us on day to day basis as we are not in constant contact with ops while airborne. Unless we call them.
We are also soon to get acars, and inevitably your ears will be silent my fellow aviators from the daily 1700 flights that FR conduct at our peak summer by our 300 aircraft, for requests of weather and direct routings etc...
Personally I'm on a floating contract and that suits us the best at the moment for our lifestyle. So my gross salary is under €145,000 per year. I work 5 days on earlies and 5 days off then 5 lates...then a repeating pattern and so on.
All the the operational decisions are made by us on day to day basis as we are not in constant contact with ops while airborne. Unless we call them.
We are also soon to get acars, and inevitably your ears will be silent my fellow aviators from the daily 1700 flights that FR conduct at our peak summer by our 300 aircraft, for requests of weather and direct routings etc...
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Murray,
So you are on a floating contract? Do you have a base? Because by EU OPS your employer should give you one, read chapter 7 and inform yourself about the latest EU decision on basing and national insurance.
Ah and don't tell me your base is what comes out on your roster every Friday because that's not what EU OPS define as a base.
So you are on 145.000 GROSS?How much tax do you pay on that? How much money do you spend on hotels, meals and commuting?How about loss of license? Pension?Medical insurance?
Let's say you get rostered out of EMA for a week right when the bike race is on (happened to a colleague) and every hotel/b&b is fully booked for that period? How will the company assist you? Will you end up 50 miles away and renting a car like the guy in question had to do? Will the company help in any way?
And how about your off days? If you live in e UK and get rostered for a week of earlies in the canary islands or the south of europe when will you commute?What if there are no direct FR flights between the place you live and the place you are supposed to report for work? Will you have to travel in your off time for hours and change planes with no guarantee of a jump seat ( it doesn't usually happen but it could)?
How about your contract renewal? Are you setting up an LTD?Where? Maybe dodging the tax somewhere in Malta or Cyprus?How will your ltd deal with the new EU regulation on social security that states that you must have a specified base where you are liable?Do you know that many countries will not allow a company to operate on their soil while paying corporate tax offshore?
What happens to you if you get sick? FR will not pay you a dime but your ltd will still be liable to pay social security in the country you are based because it must guarantee the employee ( yourself) that he doesn't starve to death.
These are just a few questions that popped up in my mind reading your superficial and short sighted post.
Sometimes I think you guys are just plain and simple button pushers and that we deserve that a mediocre and unethical management treats inferior beings like you the way they do.
So you are on a floating contract? Do you have a base? Because by EU OPS your employer should give you one, read chapter 7 and inform yourself about the latest EU decision on basing and national insurance.
Ah and don't tell me your base is what comes out on your roster every Friday because that's not what EU OPS define as a base.
So you are on 145.000 GROSS?How much tax do you pay on that? How much money do you spend on hotels, meals and commuting?How about loss of license? Pension?Medical insurance?
Let's say you get rostered out of EMA for a week right when the bike race is on (happened to a colleague) and every hotel/b&b is fully booked for that period? How will the company assist you? Will you end up 50 miles away and renting a car like the guy in question had to do? Will the company help in any way?
And how about your off days? If you live in e UK and get rostered for a week of earlies in the canary islands or the south of europe when will you commute?What if there are no direct FR flights between the place you live and the place you are supposed to report for work? Will you have to travel in your off time for hours and change planes with no guarantee of a jump seat ( it doesn't usually happen but it could)?
How about your contract renewal? Are you setting up an LTD?Where? Maybe dodging the tax somewhere in Malta or Cyprus?How will your ltd deal with the new EU regulation on social security that states that you must have a specified base where you are liable?Do you know that many countries will not allow a company to operate on their soil while paying corporate tax offshore?
What happens to you if you get sick? FR will not pay you a dime but your ltd will still be liable to pay social security in the country you are based because it must guarantee the employee ( yourself) that he doesn't starve to death.
These are just a few questions that popped up in my mind reading your superficial and short sighted post.
Sometimes I think you guys are just plain and simple button pushers and that we deserve that a mediocre and unethical management treats inferior beings like you the way they do.
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Wow I must have ruffled a few feathers here fellows?
I am more than happy where I am and by the sound of things, has anyone of you failed a Ryanair selection?
I like the bit about the "button pusher"...with the quality of training we have and the company back up when genuinely sick is of equal to if not better than any other company. Just read on Terms and Endearment about our TRE who had a stroke.
Our ops is very superior and the range of airports we fly to are more than complex, so we are very honed on what we do.
As to the financial side of things, yes I do pay tax and my own hotels, meals, uniform etc...in all the years I've never had a problem with connecting to a destination and also finding hotels.
I wish you all the best of luck and I wish you all to earn more money than what we get here.
I am more than happy where I am and by the sound of things, has anyone of you failed a Ryanair selection?
I like the bit about the "button pusher"...with the quality of training we have and the company back up when genuinely sick is of equal to if not better than any other company. Just read on Terms and Endearment about our TRE who had a stroke.
Our ops is very superior and the range of airports we fly to are more than complex, so we are very honed on what we do.
As to the financial side of things, yes I do pay tax and my own hotels, meals, uniform etc...in all the years I've never had a problem with connecting to a destination and also finding hotels.
I wish you all the best of luck and I wish you all to earn more money than what we get here.
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Murray NN,
You are deluded. To suggest that:
1) Your wages are good - absolutely no package to speak of at all, and;
2) That just because people point this out to you, they must have failed a Ryanair selection.
You are symptomatic of the disease that is the apathy inside Ryanair. A cancer (probably literally in the end) to yourself and others in this industry. A wallflower, too scared to stand up for better T & C's - even though you understand that you need them, but can't admit it openly.
Even on the most conservative scale, here is what it must cost you to go to work annually:
1) Uniform : Ł100
2) Car parks : Ł200
3) Crew meals : Ł1500
4) Loss of Licence : Ł300 - 500
5) Pension : Ł 6000
6) Accommodation when at work: Ł3500
7) Income protection : Ł1500
8) Transport at your non - base : Ł1000
9) Medical : Ł250
10) Simulator: Ł1000
If you take this approximate Ł15,500/Euro 18,500 from your headline pay, it starts to bite a little.
Add to that fact, that only an imbecile would consider Ł6000 a year as sufficient pension contributions considering the extraordinarily low annuity rates you will receive upon retirement.
I'd say you're on a crap deal in all honesty.
Without boasting, I work 2 weeks on/off. Have my roster fixed like that for eternity. My basic pay is circa Ł80,000 plus a further Ł10,000 to cover any per diems. But, if I need more, the company credit card picks up the slack. 5* hotels down route. Don't fancy driving to work because it's a late start/long haul etc, then get a cab - company paid. Feel tired after work? Go to the hotel - company paid, or get a cab - yep, you guessed it, company paid. Crew meal? Well, the girls ask us what we want and source it for us every time.
Pension? Yes, we have a company scheme.
Death in service benefits? Yes, 4 x salary.
Private medical for you and family? Yes.
Downroute medical? Yes.
Bonus? 41% of salary last year.
Now, I know that I am extremely fortunate, and that not many jobs are like mine. But to suggest that your floating base, "contractor" status is good, is frankly risible.
I think I forgot to mention that we also don't fly on Saturdays - ever. Therefore, 95% of weekends are at home - off duty.
If I were you, I'd think again about that "sweet deal" you're on.
Finally, for the avoidance of doubt, I have never applied to fly for Ryanair. Do you think I should?
You are deluded. To suggest that:
1) Your wages are good - absolutely no package to speak of at all, and;
2) That just because people point this out to you, they must have failed a Ryanair selection.
You are symptomatic of the disease that is the apathy inside Ryanair. A cancer (probably literally in the end) to yourself and others in this industry. A wallflower, too scared to stand up for better T & C's - even though you understand that you need them, but can't admit it openly.
Even on the most conservative scale, here is what it must cost you to go to work annually:
1) Uniform : Ł100
2) Car parks : Ł200
3) Crew meals : Ł1500
4) Loss of Licence : Ł300 - 500
5) Pension : Ł 6000
6) Accommodation when at work: Ł3500
7) Income protection : Ł1500
8) Transport at your non - base : Ł1000
9) Medical : Ł250
10) Simulator: Ł1000
If you take this approximate Ł15,500/Euro 18,500 from your headline pay, it starts to bite a little.
Add to that fact, that only an imbecile would consider Ł6000 a year as sufficient pension contributions considering the extraordinarily low annuity rates you will receive upon retirement.
I'd say you're on a crap deal in all honesty.
Without boasting, I work 2 weeks on/off. Have my roster fixed like that for eternity. My basic pay is circa Ł80,000 plus a further Ł10,000 to cover any per diems. But, if I need more, the company credit card picks up the slack. 5* hotels down route. Don't fancy driving to work because it's a late start/long haul etc, then get a cab - company paid. Feel tired after work? Go to the hotel - company paid, or get a cab - yep, you guessed it, company paid. Crew meal? Well, the girls ask us what we want and source it for us every time.
Pension? Yes, we have a company scheme.
Death in service benefits? Yes, 4 x salary.
Private medical for you and family? Yes.
Downroute medical? Yes.
Bonus? 41% of salary last year.
Now, I know that I am extremely fortunate, and that not many jobs are like mine. But to suggest that your floating base, "contractor" status is good, is frankly risible.
I think I forgot to mention that we also don't fly on Saturdays - ever. Therefore, 95% of weekends are at home - off duty.
If I were you, I'd think again about that "sweet deal" you're on.
Finally, for the avoidance of doubt, I have never applied to fly for Ryanair. Do you think I should?
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Narrow Runway,
I've simply stated the facts.
I never implied that I am on a great deal...I merely said what I earned and how it suits our lifestyle.
It seems by the numbers you quote about your income you earn much more than I am, and at the end of the day what matters for you maybe one thing than what maybe essential for me.
I am more than happy and congratulate you on your grander pay and package at your biz company. Considering the current climate of aviation and companies going bust for spending way too much, for example 41% bonus pay? I would rather be employed by a company that has around 3 billion Euros in the bank and will be around for some time to come than get the short term bonuses etc. Whichever rocks your boat.
I've simply stated the facts.
I never implied that I am on a great deal...I merely said what I earned and how it suits our lifestyle.
It seems by the numbers you quote about your income you earn much more than I am, and at the end of the day what matters for you maybe one thing than what maybe essential for me.
I am more than happy and congratulate you on your grander pay and package at your biz company. Considering the current climate of aviation and companies going bust for spending way too much, for example 41% bonus pay? I would rather be employed by a company that has around 3 billion Euros in the bank and will be around for some time to come than get the short term bonuses etc. Whichever rocks your boat.
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Murray,
It is not about congratulating anyone, or who gets paid more.
The bottom line is that respect has been taken from our profession.
Ryanair could be a far better place than it is. And it should be. It makes money, but acts like a dictatorship.
I did read about the TRE who had a stroke. It was good to hear that he has been looked after.
However, that shouldn't be a story. It should be a condition of service.
For the TRE, it worked out. However, for others, including an LTC at Ryanair whose wife also works there it is different. She can't work after a serious accident. Guess what - no pay.
In closing, you earn a decent wage. At least by the man in the streets view - but it could be, and should be, so much better.
It is not about congratulating anyone, or who gets paid more.
The bottom line is that respect has been taken from our profession.
Ryanair could be a far better place than it is. And it should be. It makes money, but acts like a dictatorship.
I did read about the TRE who had a stroke. It was good to hear that he has been looked after.
However, that shouldn't be a story. It should be a condition of service.
For the TRE, it worked out. However, for others, including an LTC at Ryanair whose wife also works there it is different. She can't work after a serious accident. Guess what - no pay.
In closing, you earn a decent wage. At least by the man in the streets view - but it could be, and should be, so much better.
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Narrow Runway,
I fully agree with you with regards to the lack of respect.
It really pisses me off when people say I earn a good wage and yet they've never really worked for a "proper" company that genuinely cares about their employees wellbeing etc.
There is lots of things that could be improved in Ryanair, for example when the CEO of Southwest resigned in the US all the pilots chipped some money together and bought him a custom made Harley for his retirement. Now when MOL resigns, do you think we will be doing this? No way...and the reason is because we are a copy of Southwest but never the same in treating us all with respect. I believe this will bite our company the hardest when we eventually get together and become unionised. Our company is simply getting too big for itself to handle itself, thats the biggest financial risk that I foresee for us in the near future.
I fully agree with you with regards to the lack of respect.
It really pisses me off when people say I earn a good wage and yet they've never really worked for a "proper" company that genuinely cares about their employees wellbeing etc.
There is lots of things that could be improved in Ryanair, for example when the CEO of Southwest resigned in the US all the pilots chipped some money together and bought him a custom made Harley for his retirement. Now when MOL resigns, do you think we will be doing this? No way...and the reason is because we are a copy of Southwest but never the same in treating us all with respect. I believe this will bite our company the hardest when we eventually get together and become unionised. Our company is simply getting too big for itself to handle itself, thats the biggest financial risk that I foresee for us in the near future.
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Murray is clearly a management mole and is here to take the p out of us.
If not he is a total "company man" wonker and I hope I never have the pleasure of flying with him........
If not he is a total "company man" wonker and I hope I never have the pleasure of flying with him........
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At FR we are home everynight. We rarely fly past midnight. We are rarely called to work on our days off. It's a perfect place to be in aviation and raise a family.
Personally I'm on a floating contract and that suits us the best at the moment for our lifestyle. So my gross salary is under €145,000 per year. I work 5 days on earlies and 5 days off then 5 lates...then a repeating pattern and so on.
Personally I'm on a floating contract and that suits us the best at the moment for our lifestyle. So my gross salary is under €145,000 per year. I work 5 days on earlies and 5 days off then 5 lates...then a repeating pattern and so on.
2. When you have to get up at 5am, have a wash and a shave, turn up at your base in your uniform, go through security, get a boarding card, board last, sit in the middle seat for 3 hours between an obese, flatulant tourist and a gobby know it all who talks to you endless about aviation (you will have to do all this TWICE unless you are lucky enough to opperating out of a base with direct flights to your home base), then get to the other end, trawl your way to an Etap, Formule 1 or other sorry excuse for a hotel, then sit there scratching your backside for the rest of the afternoon... that is not a day off.
I lost 18 days off last summer doing that. Your 5/5 roster in reality is nearer to a 6/4 or even a 7/3 depending on how difficult the base you are positioning to is and where you live.
Re Post //61
Does it matter? It is all bloody boring. I keep hoping to see something new but it is always the same old regurgitated crap. Can't anyone out there come up with something new that has more than a 0.00001% chance of working?
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Murray murray murray,
I did not fail FR selection (if you want to call it that), stayed with them for quite a while. Left for greener grass with another Loco, now I am on salary of about E75K + approx 15K per diem, industry leading LOL, acceptable pension, 5on-4off, well equipped ships, health insurance, respect from managment, and I am just an FO
Murray, you think youre on a good deal, that could be because you never have seen a good deal
!
I did not fail FR selection (if you want to call it that), stayed with them for quite a while. Left for greener grass with another Loco, now I am on salary of about E75K + approx 15K per diem, industry leading LOL, acceptable pension, 5on-4off, well equipped ships, health insurance, respect from managment, and I am just an FO
Murray, you think youre on a good deal, that could be because you never have seen a good deal
!
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CP's: can expect between 70% and 75% of their income
Now take off pension, LOL, life insurance, sick pay, uniform, medical, sim etc etc, and the crap euro exchange, and it's not so rosy.
4 pages of briefing for departure and 3 pages for arrival (Boeing: 1 page) and a 181 page(!) SOP manual. And it's all got to be done every time, and no, there's no official shorthand way of doing it "on the line" as earlier stated.
More money lost when you go N/A because you missed a couple of radio calls, or forgot to shut a security door behind you, or busted a noise route, or crashed the aircraft. I am not being flippant here, there is no prioritisation of naughtiness, a violation is a violation.
I have worked at many airlines, unlike most of the guys who seem resigned to their RYR fate, and what is missing is the mix of words like "must", "should", "normally", and the dreaded "airmanship".
I got out, and haven't looked back, even if I do miss the shiny new aircraft, and working with some good people (once the door is closed).
Still, there's good people everywhere, and those aircraft will get less shiny as the next few years go by...
I got out, and haven't looked back, even if I do miss the shiny new aircraft, and working with some good people (once the door is closed).
There are some really good people in Ryanair but, for me, I could only distance myself from the "ethics" of the Company and the way they treated staff on certain occasions for so long!
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Ryanair is a dim and distant memory….over 4 years now thank god.
I have NEVER looked back, I have more free time a better quality of life, get treated like a human being and earn more money now than I ever did in 6 years with FR….
FR grind you down and give you the illusion that your worthless and you can't do better…you can!
I have NEVER looked back, I have more free time a better quality of life, get treated like a human being and earn more money now than I ever did in 6 years with FR….
FR grind you down and give you the illusion that your worthless and you can't do better…you can!
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Thank and pleasure to those whom are happy and enjoying themselves in better and other companies!
Im happy here and when I say this please dont make it feel like "a ryanair bashing".
Enjoy and I wish you better prospects for everyone.
Happy flighting.
Im happy here and when I say this please dont make it feel like "a ryanair bashing".
Enjoy and I wish you better prospects for everyone.
Happy flighting.
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I failed my command sim with Andy O'Shea 15 years ago - best thing that could have happened to me because I resigned a week later and have never looked back. Nasty, nasty company but wannabes are still queuing up to join. 