BA/bmi merger (was Virgin & Balpa - bmi next ?)
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BMI DoJ will not apply to staff travel either because I would be disadvantaged if 'we' were both trying to get on the same flight and Keith Williams told me that no BA pilot would be disadvantaged by the take over. I've kept a copy of the email.
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Bmed Boy, please see my post from a few pages ago.
What makes pilots think that they are a special case? They will be treated the same as the ops staff, marketing, sales etc. BA will, no doubt, do exactly what they did with the Dandair take over. Say we need x pilots from that company they rest will be let go PRIOR TO INTEGRATION. As I said a few pages ago if some people put the same energy into working together as they put into "hypothetical" court cases we could all be a lot better off.
But I am not ashamed to say my number one priority is looking after my family as I'm sure it is for you. I've already taken a few pay cuts in the past few years and there is not a lot of slack left. I'm not alone feeling this way.
So instead of bitching about seniority and court cases lets look to how we can avoid people losing jobs
What makes pilots think that they are a special case? They will be treated the same as the ops staff, marketing, sales etc. BA will, no doubt, do exactly what they did with the Dandair take over. Say we need x pilots from that company they rest will be let go PRIOR TO INTEGRATION. As I said a few pages ago if some people put the same energy into working together as they put into "hypothetical" court cases we could all be a lot better off.
But I am not ashamed to say my number one priority is looking after my family as I'm sure it is for you. I've already taken a few pay cuts in the past few years and there is not a lot of slack left. I'm not alone feeling this way.
So instead of bitching about seniority and court cases lets look to how we can avoid people losing jobs
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Trolling a little hard there Jockster! DOJ for ST will be BMI DOJ, for many reasons, both legal and practical.
ST in BA is discretionary - it is not contractual and can be withdrawn at any time by the company. Everytime you use the ST you confirm that you are aware of this. BA can do what they like with ST including giving new joiners more or less of it. In reality, precedent and the dinosaur that is the BA ST computer system will ensure that all BMI pilots will have ST based on DOJ to BMI.
ST in BA is discretionary - it is not contractual and can be withdrawn at any time by the company. Everytime you use the ST you confirm that you are aware of this. BA can do what they like with ST including giving new joiners more or less of it. In reality, precedent and the dinosaur that is the BA ST computer system will ensure that all BMI pilots will have ST based on DOJ to BMI.
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If that's the case, fine. Maybe we will see the DEP holdpool unfrozen or some of the less fortunates that stucano mentions get their chance. I would suggest this would be the minority. I would imagine the vast amount of bmi guys just want to get on with things.
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My situational awareness says that, like nearly all of the rest of us, I worked hard to get my licence.
I marketed my self as a pilot and entered into a reasonable contract in return for my market worth.
I do not think I ought to be grateful for a job at BA or bmi.
Atitudes like Stucano simply allow managers and accountants to erode our market worth - wake up smell the coffee and toughen up, it's a hard world out here.
I marketed my self as a pilot and entered into a reasonable contract in return for my market worth.
I do not think I ought to be grateful for a job at BA or bmi.
Atitudes like Stucano simply allow managers and accountants to erode our market worth - wake up smell the coffee and toughen up, it's a hard world out here.
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I don't know what's up with the Flight Crew in BA all the time they seem to give stuff away, £10m this occasion to preserve the precious Bidline and status quo..
As one Captain said to me the other day "If only BALPA were a bit more like BASSA..."
No doubt BALPA were shown the "books" at BMI to see if the airline is really in the pomme frite, before recommending capitulation. Appeasing Willie is playing straight into his arms. Look at the IBERIA pilots; they are not going to give in without a fight. No doubt they are supporting their cabin crew colleagues, unlike the strike breaking mob of pilots who went into work serving drinks in the cabins.
So here is your reward for helping BA in its "fight for survival". You have been screwed. Enjoy!!
As one Captain said to me the other day "If only BALPA were a bit more like BASSA..."
No doubt BALPA were shown the "books" at BMI to see if the airline is really in the pomme frite, before recommending capitulation. Appeasing Willie is playing straight into his arms. Look at the IBERIA pilots; they are not going to give in without a fight. No doubt they are supporting their cabin crew colleagues, unlike the strike breaking mob of pilots who went into work serving drinks in the cabins.
So here is your reward for helping BA in its "fight for survival". You have been screwed. Enjoy!!
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My god, most of you on here are like 5 year old kids that quite frankly need your bloody heads banning together!
I completely agree with stucano. You BMI drivers are honestly bloody lucky to have a job. Not only a job, but a job with an airline most people would give their right arm to work for! I strongly suspect it's only the minority of the BMI AND BA pilots talking on here, but you are all making yourself look bloody stupid and unprofessional.
Just look at the cold hard facts. You are all going to have money to pay the mortgage and keep the wife and kids happy, fact! Life if unfair sometimes but be an adult, take it on the chin and deal with it!
I completely agree with stucano. You BMI drivers are honestly bloody lucky to have a job. Not only a job, but a job with an airline most people would give their right arm to work for! I strongly suspect it's only the minority of the BMI AND BA pilots talking on here, but you are all making yourself look bloody stupid and unprofessional.
Just look at the cold hard facts. You are all going to have money to pay the mortgage and keep the wife and kids happy, fact! Life if unfair sometimes but be an adult, take it on the chin and deal with it!
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As one Captain said to me the other day "If only BALPA were a bit more like BASSA..."
Look at the IBERIA pilots; they are not going to give in without a fight.
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bmi pilots
Well, on a lighter note, the cabin crew at BA will welcome you bmi pilots with open arms. They can't wait for some young, good looking, enthusiastic, friendly, human pilots to fly with. 
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Afraid you may be disapointed if your after a good looking bmi mainline pilot. Try bmi regional... 
On a serious note, most are sound (characters, not looks of course). There are some self obsessed
who are oblivious to what the rest of the group are facing. You're welcome to them BA.
Good luck baby and regional guys, who like the mainline guys invested a lot of time and energy into this group and now have very uncertain futures.
I'm sorry to say I have little to no sympathy for the bmi mainline posters on here. Show some professional respect to your colleagues who would gladly trade places right now. Like I say, it's only a minority, most aren't so self absorbed.
On a serious note, most are sound (characters, not looks of course). There are some self obsessed
who are oblivious to what the rest of the group are facing. You're welcome to them BA.Good luck baby and regional guys, who like the mainline guys invested a lot of time and energy into this group and now have very uncertain futures.
I'm sorry to say I have little to no sympathy for the bmi mainline posters on here. Show some professional respect to your colleagues who would gladly trade places right now. Like I say, it's only a minority, most aren't so self absorbed.
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The thing to remember is that out of 3800 pilots, I find the BALPA forum (which is not anonymous) is frequented by a very small minority of a few hundred pilots with extreme views, which never represents the reasonable majority.
Whenever a big issue comes along, the extreme views on the balpa forum never represent the final vote (which is normally 80% very pragmatic and reasonable).
Now project that to an anonymous forum and it is clear the views get exponentially more extreme and less representative of the majority. On this post there are trolls, those stirring things deliberately, those without the guts to post on the BALPA forum (which is fairly quiet and more reasonable), and those with extreme views, or those wound up by other's extreme views.
Anyone reading this would think there is huge bad feeling between the 2 sets of pilots, which in reality couldn't be further from the truth I suspect. As I've already said, I'm sure the 2 cc's will get together and represent their pilot groups to the best of their ability, will come up with a sensible proposal to BA, and together fight for the best possible outcome for the combined good of all in accordance with the restrictions in place by law and by IAG (bmi pilots will maintain their equivalent pay and conditions, BA's cost base will not rise, and no BA pilot will be disadvantaged in terms of STATUS or SENIORITY.
Job done. The overall sensible majority in bmi will see this solution gives them the best future career prospects and 70-80% will vote yes. A small minority will feel hard done by and will post vitriolic crap on this forum.
Whenever a big issue comes along, the extreme views on the balpa forum never represent the final vote (which is normally 80% very pragmatic and reasonable).
Now project that to an anonymous forum and it is clear the views get exponentially more extreme and less representative of the majority. On this post there are trolls, those stirring things deliberately, those without the guts to post on the BALPA forum (which is fairly quiet and more reasonable), and those with extreme views, or those wound up by other's extreme views.
Anyone reading this would think there is huge bad feeling between the 2 sets of pilots, which in reality couldn't be further from the truth I suspect. As I've already said, I'm sure the 2 cc's will get together and represent their pilot groups to the best of their ability, will come up with a sensible proposal to BA, and together fight for the best possible outcome for the combined good of all in accordance with the restrictions in place by law and by IAG (bmi pilots will maintain their equivalent pay and conditions, BA's cost base will not rise, and no BA pilot will be disadvantaged in terms of STATUS or SENIORITY.
Job done. The overall sensible majority in bmi will see this solution gives them the best future career prospects and 70-80% will vote yes. A small minority will feel hard done by and will post vitriolic crap on this forum.
Last edited by Propellerhead; 5th Apr 2012 at 15:28. Reason: spelling!
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Excellent post Propellerhead, neatly sums up the situation I believe.
However, as I understand it, BA/IAG are only obliged to "consult" with the BMI cc (note this is very different to "negotiate"). So I don`t think there will be the option of a vote on any "negotiated" proposal put forward by the BMI cc.
However, as I understand it, BA/IAG are only obliged to "consult" with the BMI cc (note this is very different to "negotiate"). So I don`t think there will be the option of a vote on any "negotiated" proposal put forward by the BMI cc.
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Absolutely correct Stucano.
Mind blowing arrogance and ignorance being shown by some bmi mainline posters here. Be grateful, very grateful, that you have the opportunity of a secure future. Threatening legal action?? What planet are you living on Count V Alt. Amazing, unbelievable and actually quite sad. Humility should be the name of the game, especially considering the vulnerable position of your colleagues within the same group.
Time to wind your necks in guys.
Mind blowing arrogance and ignorance being shown by some bmi mainline posters here. Be grateful, very grateful, that you have the opportunity of a secure future. Threatening legal action?? What planet are you living on Count V Alt. Amazing, unbelievable and actually quite sad. Humility should be the name of the game, especially considering the vulnerable position of your colleagues within the same group.
Time to wind your necks in guys.
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If we can cut through all the vitriol for a moment theres a bit of an elephent in the room that seems to have gone un-noticed - either that or I've got the wrong end of the stick
For avoidance of abuse I'd like to state that I'm looking at this from a purely commercial point of view, and clearly my future colleages at BMI have "value" and are not just "liabilities", but commercially:....
The original agreement from BACC (pp34, £10m savings etc etc), was based on the premise, and calculations by IAG, that we bought BMI in its entirety. The only real value in BMI was the slots, the rest, financially, is just one huge liability. thanks to branson and some scottish politicians we are now only buying 75% of BMI, but still get 100% of the liabilities.
Now clearly branson is all flash and no cash, and dispite Alex Salmonds posturing, nobody actually wants to fly to scotland, otherwise the aircraft that do wouldn't be 1/2 empty at the moment, so its likely that we will get those slots back, but its a brave man that mortgages the future on that assumption
I'm no financial wizzkid, but even I can see that inheriting 100% of the million-per-day losses and 100% of the staff and airframe leases, but only 75% of the slot asset value and income potential, must change the assumptions hugely.
I'm assuming that there are some at IAG board level who are more canny than I at business and will have worked this out for themselves - but what are the ramifications at the coal face? does this change things so much that the orignal BACC vote and assumptions are now way wide of the mark and we need to bring more to the table? or walk away? does it even make the whole deal viable at all?
what about BMI? not only is there the question of BMIr and BMIb, but mainline now will have a significant crew surplus.
I don't wish to see anyone loose their job, but in the current climate can we carry that surplus and what do we need to bring to the table to make that happen?
Surely rather than obsessing about the fine details at the end of the deal, we should all be looking at wether the deal is worthwhile at all, and what these changes mean to us all.
For avoidance of abuse I'd like to state that I'm looking at this from a purely commercial point of view, and clearly my future colleages at BMI have "value" and are not just "liabilities", but commercially:....
The original agreement from BACC (pp34, £10m savings etc etc), was based on the premise, and calculations by IAG, that we bought BMI in its entirety. The only real value in BMI was the slots, the rest, financially, is just one huge liability. thanks to branson and some scottish politicians we are now only buying 75% of BMI, but still get 100% of the liabilities.
Now clearly branson is all flash and no cash, and dispite Alex Salmonds posturing, nobody actually wants to fly to scotland, otherwise the aircraft that do wouldn't be 1/2 empty at the moment, so its likely that we will get those slots back, but its a brave man that mortgages the future on that assumption
I'm no financial wizzkid, but even I can see that inheriting 100% of the million-per-day losses and 100% of the staff and airframe leases, but only 75% of the slot asset value and income potential, must change the assumptions hugely.
I'm assuming that there are some at IAG board level who are more canny than I at business and will have worked this out for themselves - but what are the ramifications at the coal face? does this change things so much that the orignal BACC vote and assumptions are now way wide of the mark and we need to bring more to the table? or walk away? does it even make the whole deal viable at all?
what about BMI? not only is there the question of BMIr and BMIb, but mainline now will have a significant crew surplus.
I don't wish to see anyone loose their job, but in the current climate can we carry that surplus and what do we need to bring to the table to make that happen?
Surely rather than obsessing about the fine details at the end of the deal, we should all be looking at wether the deal is worthwhile at all, and what these changes mean to us all.
nobody actually wants to fly to scotland, otherwise the aircraft that do wouldn't be 1/2 empty at the moment