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BA Pilots Ponder BMI Proposal

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BA Pilots Ponder BMI Proposal

Old 21st Jan 2012, 14:46
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Jockster thats all well and good IF you were to strike over it, but reading the posts on here it seems that most people feel that a downgrade in the terms and conditions is the price to pay for keeping the status quo in the company and to carry on doing what they are doing, albeit on reduced T&Cs . BA Express has obviously had a lot of thought put in to it over a period of time and is not something thought up quickly so its not going to go away. I applaud your faith in the scope agreement .
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Old 21st Jan 2012, 16:22
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Can IAG redirect these orders to a new formed company? I am pretty sure it can, as it would be very hard to prove legally that BA did not just cancel orders due to bad economics etc. So how would you want to strike over that?
Nope, post Openskies BA (prior to IAG) made a legally binding agreement with BALPA that ALL orderd aircraft (listed by type and numbers) would be going to BA Mainline. They cannot change that.

Oddly enough the DLH leadership team have been spotted numerous times over at Waterside? The beginning of the same problems for VC perhaps?
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Old 21st Jan 2012, 17:44
  #263 (permalink)  
 
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I would beg to differ about DLH in Waterside as it has been discussed in the City about DLH wishing to tie up with BA/Iberia since well before Bishop excercised his Put option.

I have always been well aware of any other scenario pertaining to the BMI purchase, it's just that, when armed with ALL the information, most of which is not available on an anonymous forum, it makes sense to follow the advice of the BACC.

Fighting when fighting is needed but, as BASSA have proven, fighting when negotiation is required is suicide.

I appreciate all points of view but I don't live in a 'what if' world and can only take action on factual information and cannot advocate action based on future 'what if's '. The legal groundings in the UK are totally different to that in Germany where workers still retain a large power base in the courst with respect to worker rights. Sadly that has been whittled away in the UK reducing the power of the Unions.

AFAIK the merger will take place but the BACC Chairman has already made public that BALPA are tired of giving and are concilliatoried out.
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Old 22nd Jan 2012, 15:04
  #264 (permalink)  
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"Fighting when fighting is needed but, as BASSA have proven, fighting when negotiation is required is suicide.

Sadly that has been whittled away in the UK reducing the power of the Unions.

AFAIK the merger will take place but the BACC Chairman has already made public that BALPA are tired of giving and are concilliatoried out"

Unfortunately the myths that BA's pilots still use to justify them serving drinks, is deliberately misinterpreted as the real reason for the cabin crew dispute. Imposition and union busting were the incendiary items as recognised by over 100 academics and Professor Keith Ewing. In any forthcoming dispute between BA pilots and Walsh, I can assure you there will not be the same intellectual condemnation or support.

As Wirblsturm and others are recently discovering, the cabin crew dispute was a shop window for what Walsh would dish out to employee groups who are not 'conciliatory'.

Wirdble kids himself that the pilots could ever organise themselves for any sort of industrial action. He quite rightly illustrates how the law in the UK is used against employees by management via the Establishment, in what is now coined as "British Airways tactics". BA pilots are no longer on a pedestal, but just another cost that requires a haircut.

Studi is right. A Yes vote is just feeding the crocodile, it is not even buying time. Whatever agreements BALPA asserts it has with Walsh regarding the placement of new aircraft, will simply be brushed aside and BA will fight it out in the Courts months or years down the line.
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Old 22nd Jan 2012, 16:06
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And we're back to imposition and union busting. They may have been incendiary items but they were avoidable which is one of the reasons it was so sad.

Move on Count.
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Old 22nd Jan 2012, 16:50
  #266 (permalink)  
 
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Mods

A word please............

On the previous very lengthy thread, over in Cabin Crew, concerning the BA CC dispute, non pertinant posters were moderated very tightly (by Tightslot ) and sometimes banned when they wouldn't take the hint.

We now have a BA Cabin Crew member making deliberately inflammatory posts that actually have little to do with the subject of this thread. I'm wondering why he has been given such leeway?

Could I ask you to take a look and, if nescessary, .......................


give us break from him
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Old 22nd Jan 2012, 17:01
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As the majority of the bmi fleet is leased and most of these leases (esp A319 s) will be due to end within the next couple of years what is to stop IAG renewing the leases for a BA Express operation instead of BA ? the scope agreement surely does not cover aircraft that are lease expired.

A BA express operation is inevitable in the next couple of years regardless of whether we like it or not, why make concessions now instead of later when there will be more to play for.
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Old 22nd Jan 2012, 17:03
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ETOPS....

Of course it's possible that the Count is not, or is no longer a BA Cabin Crew member..........

I agree entirely with the sentiments of your post and the contrasting way about the way debate was err, handled, in another place.....
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Old 22nd Jan 2012, 17:44
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The scope agreement may not protect movement of the slots within the IAG group but the protection of the companies assets for the purpose of protecting the pension funds would how ever have something to say if the slots where transferred out of BA at anything other than full market value.

Hardly the way to go about setting up a new low cost carrier buying full price slots from yourself.
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Old 22nd Jan 2012, 18:29
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Wiggy, ETOPS.

Please don't try to get him banned, he gives me right laugh every time I log on!
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Old 22nd Jan 2012, 19:11
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Its all right,

Count got it so spectacularly wrong that he just needs a little help in how to get it right as his course gets to that tricky word 'negotiation'.

Obviously only those experts polled who agreed with the SWP paymasters get an outing as to the real reason behind their dispute. I, and the rest of the grown up world, saw it for what it was, a hissy fit at having to make change. Nothing more, nothing less.

As for the 'Count's' track record in calling the shots, I, personally, am really glad he is calling doom and gloom for me and my erstwhile colleagues. It only means there is a better future ahead.

I would vote to keep him, it reminds me why we kicked the Labour party and their paymaster Unions out.
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Old 22nd Jan 2012, 19:34
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What about the cabin crew ?

If the pilots at BA as expected do accept the vote and to all intent and purpose there is a merger of the respective seniority lists with protections for promotions and transfers then would this create a precident for the same policy to be enacted for the cabin crew ? Bmi has alot of crew and pilots who have considerable seniority who I would imagine would bring their joining dates with them for staff travel purposes. The only cabin crew contact now with BA is the MF contract but many bmi crew would have joined bmi well before the MF contract was introduced so i was wondering how the lists for cabin crew will be handled. There must be approx 600+ cabin crew at bmi and this will need to be looked at very soon.

Last edited by prism; 22nd Jan 2012 at 19:47.
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Old 23rd Jan 2012, 09:22
  #273 (permalink)  
 
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then would this create a precident for the same policy to be enacted for the cabin crew ?
No. They don't have a Scope clause so no vote needed. BA will simply tell them what is happening to them.
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Old 23rd Jan 2012, 09:36
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Thank you for that ETOPS as the trip I was on nobody knew the answer but those of us who have been around a few years remembered when we took over DanAir for a £1 and the crews all maintained their date of joining for staff travel purposes along with their pensions and were integrated into LGW and Midfleet as at the time they were the only fleets recruiting. I appreciate now that the SCOPE Agreement is the key and why our pilots need to vote on this. Thank you
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Old 23rd Jan 2012, 09:42
  #275 (permalink)  
 
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Having said that I hope whatever is decided allows as many crew as possible to continue in their jobs without suffering substantial reductions in T' & Cs
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Old 23rd Jan 2012, 09:44
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Totally agree ETOPS. A no brainier for those based at LHR but could be a hard decision for those crew based away from LHR
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Old 24th Jan 2012, 22:59
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The plot thickens

Potential AMR Suitors Hope to Draw Support of British Airways - WSJ.com
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Old 30th Jan 2012, 13:06
  #278 (permalink)  
 
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Did the ballot close today? Had today in my head for some reason...
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Old 30th Jan 2012, 16:37
  #279 (permalink)  
 
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It closes tomorrow at 12:00.

From who/what I know within BA I would put a large sum of money on a majority yes vote.
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Old 31st Jan 2012, 13:07
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The result is a yes to BMI integration.
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